Especially when the wadding hits the target at the short distances . . .
Being a good shot you could fail to get your CCL !!
- Thread starter Whitwabit
- Start date
Especially when the wadding hits the target at the short distances . . .
dwever
Member
Qualification Bloopers:
I was stunned to be DQ'd years ago in an agency 50 shot qual for having fifty grouped shots plus an additional two way-out-there strays near the right edge of my target. No more than 50 shots allowed, I had shot too many I was told.
When I pointed out the guy to my right didn't even have 50 holes in his target, and that some of his were near the left of his Q target, all that did was get me glared at by the other shooter as well as irritate the corporal running the show. But then I was offered the option of taking a score of 96 or to re-shoot instead of getting the 100 score I thought I deserved; before I could argue my own supervisor told me to take the 96 and that my gracious acceptance was to immediately be followed by me shutting up. 96!
I was stunned to be DQ'd years ago in an agency 50 shot qual for having fifty grouped shots plus an additional two way-out-there strays near the right edge of my target. No more than 50 shots allowed, I had shot too many I was told.
When I pointed out the guy to my right didn't even have 50 holes in his target, and that some of his were near the left of his Q target, all that did was get me glared at by the other shooter as well as irritate the corporal running the show. But then I was offered the option of taking a score of 96 or to re-shoot instead of getting the 100 score I thought I deserved; before I could argue my own supervisor told me to take the 96 and that my gracious acceptance was to immediately be followed by me shutting up. 96!
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Black_Sheep
Member
I only got to shoot a few rounds on the range portion of CC class. The instructor ran the target down range 7 yards, looked at the group and said "who's first?" Everybody looked at each other with a deer in the headlights look so I stepped up with my trusty 3" 65 and put 3 shots in the x-ring. He tapped me on the shoulder before I let the 4th one go and said "you're done". When everyone was done I asked why, thinking it was a little strange. He said anyone able to shoot like that with a double action revolver was proficient enough to meet the standard. He liked my muzzle and trigger finger discipline too. In Minnesota at that time there were no guidelines regarding, round count, target distance or caliber, it was entirely up the instructor's discretion.
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The nasty attitudes of some posters makes me laugh.
Calling someone a liar because they report some governmental stupidity (particularly regarding firearms) is nuts, or at least downright c/s.
Take a look around you, fellas. There are plenty of examples of legal screwiness, being acted on by certified, trained representatives of the lawmakers.
Calling someone a liar because they report some governmental stupidity (particularly regarding firearms) is nuts, or at least downright c/s.
Take a look around you, fellas. There are plenty of examples of legal screwiness, being acted on by certified, trained representatives of the lawmakers.
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Say what?!?!?
Zero governmental issues in this thread...simply an ignorant 'instructor' given the posts.
ispcapt proved the OP and the 'instructor ' wrong.
Be safe.
Zero governmental issues in this thread...simply an ignorant 'instructor' given the posts.
ispcapt proved the OP and the 'instructor ' wrong.
Be safe.
You got this wrong. Nobody here called the OP a liar. I'm sure he was 100% accurate in posting what he was told. I believe the person called a liar was the OP's instructor. The OP was just understandably defending what he was told, even after ispcapt proved the OP's instructor wrong. Unfortunately, the instructor called a liar is not here to defend himself . . .
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RV4driver
US Veteran
"Please kindly stay out of my threads with these type of comments .."
Wow! I didn't realize that when you started a thread, that it became "your thread"!
Silly me, I thought that in this forum, threads were for various people to interject their thought, replies, etc.
God forbid someone would show your assumptions to be without merit, and attempt to correct them, you know, in the spirit of the forum, and to prevent misinformation to be propagated in said thread.
But, as shown by the preponderance of replies, the OP doesn't have any idea of the skill that can be demonstrated by Bullseye shooters.
Actually, the most common question of others when Bullseye shooting is demonstrated is "how do you DO that???"
So, practice, expect more of yourself, and then...practice. Plinking won't cut it.
Oh, in case it HAS to be said, "one hole" doesn't refer to one 9mm, or whatever, sized hole. It means, as has been stated in this thread, one "ragged" oversized hole. No flyers. (Except for those people in the adjoining lanes that have been mentioned).
Wow! I didn't realize that when you started a thread, that it became "your thread"!
Silly me, I thought that in this forum, threads were for various people to interject their thought, replies, etc.
God forbid someone would show your assumptions to be without merit, and attempt to correct them, you know, in the spirit of the forum, and to prevent misinformation to be propagated in said thread.
But, as shown by the preponderance of replies, the OP doesn't have any idea of the skill that can be demonstrated by Bullseye shooters.
Actually, the most common question of others when Bullseye shooting is demonstrated is "how do you DO that???"
So, practice, expect more of yourself, and then...practice. Plinking won't cut it.
Oh, in case it HAS to be said, "one hole" doesn't refer to one 9mm, or whatever, sized hole. It means, as has been stated in this thread, one "ragged" oversized hole. No flyers. (Except for those people in the adjoining lanes that have been mentioned).
Doesn't mention it in the law:
Section 75. Applicant firearm training.
(a) Within 60 days of the effective date of this Act, the
Department shall begin approval of firearm training courses and
shall make a list of approved courses available on the
Department's website.
(b) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of
HB0183 Enrolled LRB098 05760 MGM 35799 b
Public Act 098-0063
completion of a firearms training course or combination of
courses approved by the Department of at least 16 hours, which
includes range qualification time under subsection (c) of this
Section, that covers the following:
(1) firearm safety;
(2) the basic principles of marksmanship;
(3) care, cleaning, loading, and unloading of a
concealable firearm;
(4) all applicable State and federal laws relating to
the ownership, storage, carry, and transportation of a
firearm; and
(5) instruction on the appropriate and lawful
interaction with law enforcement while transporting or
carrying a concealed firearm.
(c) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of
certification by a certified instructor that the applicant
passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm
consisting of:
(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and
(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds
from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance
of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the
Department.
(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide
proof of completion of a firearms training course or
combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3
HB0183 Enrolled LRB098 05760 MGM 35799 b
Public Act 098-0063
hours.
(e) A certificate of completion for an applicant's firearm
training course shall not be issued to a student who:
(1) does not follow the orders of the certified
firearms instructor;
(2) in the judgment of the certified instructor,
handles a firearm in a manner that poses a danger to the
student or to others; or
(3) during the range firing portion of testing fails to
hit the target with 70% of the rounds fired.
SaintsDad
Member
I passed my illinois CCP class in December and the qualifying was easy and I hadn't fired a handgun in 30 years. I was worried I wouldn't do well but a LEO friend said I'd do fine and he was right.
30 rounds total.
10 at 5 yds
10 at 7 yds
10 at 10 yds
70% must hit the target. In this case 21 in the black area of a B27.
Instructors were all current duty LEO and didn't go to great lengths to "count" the holes. I had several spurious but all in the black and also a nice big ragged hole in the center. Not bad for 57 hrs old and not so good eyes.
Needless to say I passed.
I liked the class and felt it was very worthwhile. We had one gentleman that had bought his first gun before the class and when the instructor asked about it he couldn't remember what he bought or what caliber it was. He didn't even know what the slide was. The guy next to me and I just rolled our eyes and hoped he'd be several stalls down during the qualifying. He was but managed to pass, barely. He had holes all over the target, but at least 21 *were* all in the black.
This is why I think at least some mandated training is a good thing. I hope to god he gets more training before he even *thinks* about carrying.
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I'm quite aware of what a Bullseye Shooters abilities are .. Since you don't know me and am guessing we have never met I'm amazed you are aware of what I know or don't know ..
I was repeating a comment I heard from a Licensed Illinois CC instructor who said it in their class .. I did so for comments and thoughts on the subject !! Why ?? Because that is what is being done by some instructors teaching the Illinois Conceal Carry Class in the Chicago area .. And in that respect many people read this thread and commented ..
Whether it was right or wrong I did not know at the time but was clarified by the ISP .. and for what their reply was yes it is possible to fail in certain instances according to who the instructor was ....
Their reply to me
"The scoring criteria is presented in the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, as you have acknowledged in your email. The instructors are required to score the qualification shoots as ordered in the Act. However, the Illinois State Police does not provide a precise method to instructors on how to handle rounds that penetrate the same entry location on the target. The certified instructors have all been trained to a certain degree on how to handle these scenarios. They are allowed to use their discretion. If a student questions the scoring, they should direct their question to their instructor first and foremost. Thank you."
The instructor could use their discretion !! so if a poor shot scattered his shots over the target missing the target complete several times and luckily keyholing a few also .. at the discretion of the instructor if 21 holes weren't on the target he may fail ..
some instructors it seems are only counting holes and that was the point I was making !!
Thank you for your comment !!
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Biggfoot44
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No, this is a real thing in general. Not for a CCW per se , but for work.
At the 3yd & 7yd stages it's no major thing to tear a decent size chunk out of the target. Sometimes I'd get benefit of the doubt about rounds passing thru the hole, other times I'd get downgraded. Didn't make the difference in ququalfing, but I got torqued about shooting a 100%, but recieving 88% . ( At top level matches there often are moving backer sheet behind the target to count the total number of holes, but not so much for Qualifications.)
So for 3 & 7yds I make a "game" of delibertly missing the bullet holes. Occasionally I mess up and hit one, but usually just two will still be scoreable as seperate hits. For 10-25yds I just aim center and take my chances.
Now what I really liked was once upon a year, the then head Instructor would run the cof backwards ! Once the 25yd weak hand stage is handled, all the pressure is off, and when the big hole doesn't get chewed out until the end, nobody gets acused of sandbagging and delibertly putting 25yd shots into the backstop.
At the 3yd & 7yd stages it's no major thing to tear a decent size chunk out of the target. Sometimes I'd get benefit of the doubt about rounds passing thru the hole, other times I'd get downgraded. Didn't make the difference in ququalfing, but I got torqued about shooting a 100%, but recieving 88% . ( At top level matches there often are moving backer sheet behind the target to count the total number of holes, but not so much for Qualifications.)
So for 3 & 7yds I make a "game" of delibertly missing the bullet holes. Occasionally I mess up and hit one, but usually just two will still be scoreable as seperate hits. For 10-25yds I just aim center and take my chances.
Now what I really liked was once upon a year, the then head Instructor would run the cof backwards ! Once the 25yd weak hand stage is handled, all the pressure is off, and when the big hole doesn't get chewed out until the end, nobody gets acused of sandbagging and delibertly putting 25yd shots into the backstop.
Illinois State Police Press Release
Is the instructor an agent of the government? Are that agents actions an execution of government regulations? If the instructor is so poorly trained, is that a government issue? I think so. You don't. Big Deal.
Incidentally, we've had to go back to using the B27 target instead of the TXPT, which is another example of some governmental silliness down this way.
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I just watched a young man do exactly that (and he did pass
) to get his Texas carry permit. He's temporarily stationed at NASCC, and a SEAL, soon to be CBP.
You're right Muss,I was reacting to some of the vehemence that seemed (I percieved) to be tossed at the OP. That wasn't the case.
And it would be interesting to know if the instructor actually did fall out of his highchair as a child....
Pax
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ChattanoogaPhil
Member
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- Oct 18, 2009
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I don't know the particulars, but failing someone on their shooting test because they shoot exceptionally well sure sounds like government-think.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Add me to the list of people that think it's ridiculous to exclude someone who can shoot 30 rounds through one large hole. Case in point, here's 20 shots I took from 3, 5, 7 and 10 yards:
If an instructor tried to disqualify me for this target, we'd have words.
This is all really a moot point. The shooters who are capable of shooting this "one ragged hole" are few and far between. If you think you can, come and join in on this challenge: http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...746-rastoffs-challenge-dropping-gauntlet.html
If an instructor tried to disqualify me for this target, we'd have words.
I use a B-27E target in my class. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to miss the black. At least, I see it all the time.
Yes, I could. Anyone who can shoot a group like that isn't likely to have missed one or two by the whole target. If the instructor is paying attention, it's easy to tell if they are missing completely or are just a good shot.
This is all really a moot point. The shooters who are capable of shooting this "one ragged hole" are few and far between. If you think you can, come and join in on this challenge: http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...746-rastoffs-challenge-dropping-gauntlet.html
Rastoff
US Veteran
One more thing...
I find this interesting that we're even having this discussion. In CA there is no shooting requirement in the law. In my opinion this is how it should be. The second amendment doesn't say you have the right to bear arms if you shoot well enough.
I find this interesting that we're even having this discussion. In CA there is no shooting requirement in the law. In my opinion this is how it should be. The second amendment doesn't say you have the right to bear arms if you shoot well enough.
SWIll
Member
We had a couple guys in my Illinois CCW class shoot large ragged holes with their 30 rounds. Our instructor congradulated them for good shooting.
