What we carried in 71, the Model 10-5

[adwjc]

Stakeout, I have one that might beat

"Some of the brass even argued against more practice.Their thought was that more practice would make officers use their weapons more as they developed more confidence in their ability."

The Rangemaster in my old department was curmudgen who ruled for 35 years, his best line I heard was "we are sticking with the 158gr LRN, because who wants to get shot with one of those wicked hollow points?"
(If you were disarmed and they shot you with your own gun).SMH

Ah,police department politics!

 

[Pbchucker]

Thanks Dabney, and all you guys who take the time to post their experience with these fine sidearms. I really enjoy reading these posts.

Dabney, requalification of any kind can be stressful. Hang in there and do the best you can. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Muley Gil]

The Military & Police aka Model 10 is a good, basic .38. However, most police officers, sheriff's deputies, game wardens, state troopers, etc, if given a choice, chose M15s, M19s, M66s, M27s & M28s, Pythons, and so on and so on.

I base this on having worn a badge and a gun for the last 40 years. I worked on police sidearms for 30 of those years. Especially among big city police departments and other large law enforcement agencies, these organizations chose sidearms based on price.

Luckily, I worked for several departments that allowed their officers to choose what they wanted to carry. I usually had a .44 Special, a .45 Colt, or a .45 ACP-either a semi auto and revolver, on my Sam Browne belt.

QUOTE=shouldazagged;139022806]Quite possibly, but isn't the key word there "quality"? The 10's may have been less expensive, but cheap is not a term I'd think of. Durable, reliable and accurate, yes.

I've never worked in law enforcement, but those guns surely seemed to save a lot of derrieres for a very long time. And I'm an old guy who loves revolvers, so I'm very biased. [/QUOTE]

 

[Club Gun Fan]

My first duty gun was a Model 19 6 inch. After that a 66 6 inch, a 19 and 66 4 inch. I also carried a Model 29 a 27 and a 53 all 8 3/8 inch.

 

[BigBill]

With all due respect in '75 our local police carried 38 specials while we ccw had 357 magnums. We could of carried anything. The state police had 357 magnums with jhp bullets.

What year did every police dept switch to the 9mm's?

Now everyone carries 40cal. I over heard a ER doctor say he hasn't seen wounds this bad since nam when the 40's first were used.

 

[bronco45]

While I was not a State Trooper here in Idaho had friends who were. In the 70s they were issued Model 28s 4" and issued 158 LRN 38s. In the 80s they were issued Model 65 4" and LRN 38s. In the 90s they went to S&W 4586s with a JHP and in the new century they transitioned to Glock 45s with a JHP.

In that same era in Idaho I was issued a 4" Python, carried a 4" 19, then a 4" 29-2, transitioned to 45 Auto in Colt Commander with 200gr JHP and a Colt Cobra as a backup. In the 90s went to work for the State and was issued 2.5" 19 then in 96 transitioned to Glock 23s. I purchased my 19 when we were issued Glocks. Always worried about the Troopers in the 70s and 80s with sub standard defense ammo, but they survived ! Today I drag around a 640 Pro while I work at enjoying retirement!

 

[Muley Gil]

With all due respect in '75 our local police carried 38 specials while we ccw had 357 magnums. We could of carried anything. The state police had 357 magnums with jhp bullets.

What year did every police dept switch to the 9mm's?

Now everyone carries 40cal. I over heard a ER doctor say he hasn't seen wounds this bad since nam when the 40's first were used.

Really?

The .40 S&W cartridge debuted January 17, 1990, along with the new Smith & Wesson Model 4006 pistol, although it was several months before the pistols were available for purchase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W

 

[StakeOut]

Stakeout, I have one that might beat

"Some of the brass even argued against more practice.Their thought was that more practice would make officers use their weapons more as they developed more confidence in their ability."

The Rangemaster in my old department was curmudgen who ruled for 35 years, his best line I heard was "we are sticking with the 158gr LRN, because who wants to get shot with one of those wicked hollow points?"
(If you were disarmed and they shot you with your own gun).SMH

Ah,police department politics!

That rangemaster sounds just like the NYPD Firearms Unit boss,Lt Frank Mcgee.
He was there when I entered the Dept and was there when I left.

He was not a shooter and often had big disagreements with "shooters" under his command.

Jimmy Cirillo was a Firearms Unit instructor before the Stake Out Unit was formed and was one of the "shooters"often in disagreements with Lt Mcgee.

My final year of service was at the Firearms Unit under Lt Mcgee.

The Marine Corp taught me to shoot proficiently;in the NYPD I honed those skills.

 

[kaaskop49]

That rangemaster sounds just like the NYPD Firearms Unit boss,Lt Frank Magee.
He was there when I entered the Dept and was there when I left.

He was not a shooter and often had big disagreements with "shooters" under his command.

Jimmy Cirillo was a Firearms Unit instructor before the Stake Out Unit was formed and was one of the "shooters"often in disagreements with Lt Magee.

My final year of service was at the Firearms Unit under Lt Magee.

The Marine Corp taught me to shoot proficiently;in the NYPD I honed those skills.

^^^^What he said. One veteran cop told me that Lt. McGee too vigorously promoted the RNL service load, rather than more effective bullet types. (Of course, .357s went beyond the pale!) I have a 1974 article from the Spring 3100 in-service magazine, written with the cooperation of McGee. He believed that accuracy and rapidity of fire were more important than the force, impact or bullet design.

I met Lt. McGee in 1972. He stressed the problems associated with maintaining the proficiency of ALL of the then-25,000 NYPD officers. This was his emphasis.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. The Firearms Unit instructors I met were some of the finest (and friendliest) cops I ever came across.

 

[wvs&w]

In 1976 I first started carrying a HB Mod.10 in a Don Hume holster like Ohioseabee, thanks guys that brings back good memories!!

 

[mj2008]

P.S. The Firearms Unit instructors I met were some of the finest (and friendliest) cops I ever came across.[/QUOTE]

There were some good instructors up there. But geez the food and coffee could have been better. Not to mention the kitchen helpers and grounds crew in their "green uniforms".

 

[StakeOut]

P.S. The Firearms Unit instructors I met were some of the finest (and friendliest) cops I ever came across.

There were some good instructors up there. But geez the food and coffee could have better. Not to mention the kitchen helpers and grounds crew in their "green uniforms".[/QUOTE]

Yeah,the trustee inmates with one guard from Rikers Island serving up the chow in the mess hall that was surrounded by rat colonies.

The place really came to life after dark.

Also fishing for stripped bass in the wee hours before dawn from the banks of the range was very good most of the year.

Shield #25569 March 1966~ May 1985
One in the vest in 1973,ricochet fragment off my thick skull in 1975

 

[kaaskop49]

attn Stakeout

That was MY quote about the instructors at Rodman's Neck and I stand by it. I can live with bad coffee if I gotta. Stay safe, partner.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[mj2008]

I was ok with the third rate condition of the place as a whole. Was like the station house, made you feel at home. But I like good coffee. The guys who worked up there were a good bunch. They tried to make your day as interesting and as short as they could

 

[dscampbell]

Best advice I ever got from a senior deputy "never trust a trustee".

 

[Doug M.]

While I have enough vision trouble that the fixed sight revolvers are not really my preference now, if one carries a revolver, the M&Ps are and were good solid gear. I've spent too much time training with and carrying auto pistols to be adequately proficient with a revolver in my view. Answer: I am going to do the revolver class at HITS this fall; won't be perfect, but will suck less.

The comments about the fears of brass with regard to better trained officers are sadly true - Cirillo was among the best, and he dumped a lot of really bad offenders. My answer to that is "so what? They were all good shoots and he saved the lives that mattered - cops and the uninvolved civilians."

Ammo: The LRN was a pig, for sure, but the substandard training as to target areas on the human bodies did not help. I'm pretty sure that standard or +P hard cast 158-170 SWCs in the right place (shoot 'em to the ground), would perform just fine as a matter of terminal ballistics.

 

[RichCapeCod]

....My final year of service was at the Firearms Unit under Lt Mcgee.....

Hey, I was there at the same time!! I served, variously as a sgt. and a lt., under Frank McGee, Tom McTernan and John Cerar.

For the record, by the early 1970s the dept was using semi-wad cutters, not round nose projectiles. Frank was really stubborn about semi-autos though. Didn't think much of them for general police issue.

Rich



Wally O, Bullet Potential lecture.


Frankie G at Firearms Instructors School, mid-1970s.




Me (in jacket) with John Cerar and the Master Firearms Instructors. I was ICO so got to wear what I wanted.

 

[StakeOut]

Were's the female instructors in the pix.

I remember only Mary who later went into the Emergency Squad and got shot in the face with a .45.Luckily she survived but required a lot of reconstructive surgery.

Most of the guys in the pix look familiar,but remember Wally for sure.

How about Sal Deciara(sp) the gunsmith?

The man carrying both an M1 Carbine and the god awful S&W M76 and the narcs on the firing line sure stirs up memories.

 

[RichCapeCod]

Were's the female instructors in the pix.

I remember only Mary who later went into the Emergency Squad and got shot in the face with a .45.Luckily she survived but required a lot of reconstructive surgery.

Most of the guys in the pix look familiar,but remember Wally for sure.

How about Sal Deciara(sp) the gunsmith?

The man carrying both an M1 Carbine and the god awful S&W M76 and the narcs on the firing line sure stirs up memories.

Sal doesn't ring a bell. I knew (in the gunsmith shop); Ron K, Jerry (the plumber) C, Vinnie).

Frankie G (the instructor with the S&W 76 and M-1 carbine) was around for years.

Rich

 

[dabney]

This Forum is so fortunate to have someone like RichCapeCod here. He brings to the table a wealth of real world firearm experience, know-how, and knowledge. His expertise and renown publications on firearms makes him an asset second-to-none. His greatest character qualities is his warmth and humility. A very common LE officer, like myself, can approach this great man and not be talked down upon. Things like this is the measuring stick of a man's greatness. The Lt. is truly this! I appreciate him sharing his experience through his posts and pictures of his past. These too, give us an indicator of his very thick portfolio of self education, the very best there is, his experience, dedication to his job, and so willing to share it with us. Thanks Lt.

David