New 3rd gens??

[TTSH]

The Millett 100 Series (S&W 400/500) replacement sights is the set I was thinking of.

See this old thread with some good pix: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/384633-s-w-5906-sights.html

There is a NOS set available on that certain large firearms auction website as we speak... however, the seller warns that they may be a little rusty.

 

[PJO1425]

After reading quite a few posts over the past few weeks, I'm still not sure that I understand the S&W warranty. I own a 39 (nothing) and a 659. I'm not the original owner of either. So do I have a warranty, and if so, is it a "lifetime" warranty?
Thanks

 

[TAROMAN]

S&W fixed my second-hand 639 gratis.
I did have to pay shipping to them, however.
A big part of this seems to be with whom at CS you speak.
Have learned that if you don't get the response you expected to call again and hope for a different rep.

 

[PJO1425]

Thanks, Taroman

PJO1425

 

[rwsmith]

S&W doesn't have a lifetime warranty on everythinging...

The reason I know is that you send them the gun, they determine whether is a warranty job or not and if it's not, they give you a price on fixing it or maybe giving you a deal on a new gun.

 

[PJO1425]

Good to know, thanks rwsmith.

PJO1425

 

[Sevens]

After reading quite a few posts over the past few weeks, I'm still not sure that I understand the S&W warranty. I own a 39 (nothing) and a 659. I'm not the original owner of either. So do I have a warranty, and if so, is it a "lifetime" warranty?
Thanks

Smith & Wesson instituted the "lifetime warranty policy" in 1989 or thereabouts, and I do believe it was for the original owner only... so to the letter of it -- it's safe to say that no, you do not have a warranty on either a no-dash 39 or a 659.

The good news is that so many of these pistols were made (Roy Jinks has stated that 39/39-2 production ran to 347,000 units) and while the 2nd Gen pistols were the shortest run of all three Generations... a large number of small parts cross between all the pistols.

If you crack or wreck the frame or frame rails, the gun has ended. It's a collection of parts at that point. If you damage a slide or barrel, S&W almost certainly cannot help you and it's anyone's guess what they might even say if you called them and asked. They simply don't have a supply of slides, frames and barrels for pistols that long out of production. You might also imagine that a large part of their work force wasn't even employed there (or yet employable! ) when the 2nd Gen pistols ended.

But keep a couple things in mind...
There's so many of these small parts floating around that most of these pistols are totally fixable unless the frame has been damaged. There are also a handful of different Gunbroker sellers who are seemingly contracted to part out seized pistols, and they offer these guns (OFTEN!) with every single part they left S&W with, minus the frame. Brownell's and Numrich have lots of parts and what's most interesting is that their supply of parts fluctuates wildly, so if you are in need of a particular part, check often.

And if you end up with a problem, there's a whole lot of help right here on this forum (and others) in figuring out what it wrong and correcting it.

 

[Fastbolt]

Hmm.... $799 and $714..... for brand new S&W 3rd gen pistols. Where are those couple of fanboys who are always claiming that; "...it would cost over $1K for a brand new 3rd gen gun...."? Evidently not.

There's probably a bit of a difference between a limited number of overruns made for a contract, which were probably dumped to a vendor at obviously discounted pricing, versus making regularly cataloged guns that have to show a profit in order to justify the machine time (that could be used to make profitable 1911's and .22's at the Houlton plant, on the same CNC machines).

Then, there's still the extra staff production time involved in checking/fitting a couple of parts that still require it on the 3rd gens.

Selling new 3rd gen guns to the public for close to the low LE/Gov pricing isn't a business model that would probably allow S&W to remain as profitable as it's become in the years since they discontinued the 3rd gens.

 

[Sevens]

^Truth! Plus you'd need to keep x number of trained builders that are qualified to assemble 3rd Gen pistols.

And it continues to be my argument that M&P's, Sigma's, SD's and Shields are not the guns that killed the 3rd Gens... not at all. Thank the irrational popularity of the 1911 platform for likely killing off the 3rd Gen pistols.

Just my opinion. Also my opinion that if I got to make the decisions... (insert evil cackle), I would END production of all S&W 1911 pistols in favor of some very limited, fantastic 3rd Gen based pistols.

 

[twistedracer]

I've seen these 5946's at my local Cabelas for $799.
I've seen comments in other threads that the price is to high. I think it's a good price. I've paid that and more for my Sigs and would rather be spending that on some new production 3rd/4th gen Smiths.

I'm not into DAO pistols otherwise I would have bought one. I prefer NIB over used any day of the week.

 

[epj]

^Truth! Plus you'd need to keep x number of trained builders that are qualified to assemble 3rd Gen pistols.

And it continues to be my argument that M&P's, Sigma's, SD's and Shields are not the guns that killed the 3rd Gens... not at all. Thank the irrational popularity of the 1911 platform for likely killing off the 3rd Gen pistols.

Just my opinion. Also my opinion that if I got to make the decisions... (insert evil cackle), I would END production of all S&W 1911 pistols in favor of some very limited, fantastic 3rd Gen based pistols.

I have a pretty good collection of third generation Smiths, and consider them fine pistols. That said, no way I'd trade all my 1911's for them. This includes the two 10XX models, which are my favorites. The 1911, with all its limitations, is still the go to autoloader for a lot of folks. There are reasons for this. It's not just nostalgia. The crisply breaking trigger on a well tuned specimen is one of the prime reasons. I've sent countless hours trying to make a SA/DA trigger feel like a 1911. Made some improvements in some, but it just ain't gonna be the same. I'd love to get my hands on one of those SAO 5906's with multiple barrels, though.
Bottom line, S&W would be nuts to discontinue the 1911's.

 

[Sevens]

Actually...

I think you are twisting the point I was trying to make. I wasn't comparing the value in 1911's to 3rd Gens, I was making the point that Smith & Wesson's current lineup of 1911 pistols are horribly average in a market that is just completely bombed with 1911 pistols from so many gun makers.

You stated your position clearly, and I respect that. Here is mine:
I've had two Baer's, two Ed Browns, two Springfields and other 1911 pistols also. I liked all of them, certainly, but only one remains, and while all were fine guns, none of them brings to the table what my Performance Center pistols (or my 52's) do, and the one thing they will forever lack is the exclusivity of the "lighting in a bottle" that was the Performance Center.

A globe with a hundred gujillion 1911's pistols has made that a life-long certainty.

Should S&W quit making 1911's?
Meh, it's a losing argument for me to discuss it. Simply put... look at how well S&W stock is doing and how good their sales have been. It's plainly obvious that S&W knows -FAR- more about making a buck than I could ever hope to know.

However, that doesn't make this the Golden Age of S&W. I personally believe they are making the worst stuff right now, wholly across the board... then perhaps ever in their long history.

Glad you like your 1911's. I have always been a fan also. Suppose I'm just really tired of the saturated market... but there has never been a 1911 that I would swap either my 845 or PPC-9 to get. And if there was... haha, it would have to be a 1911 light years better than the 1911 pistols that S&W makes right now.

 

[GaryS]

I was walking through the exhibit hall at the NRA show with a friend last month. We both commented that EVERYONE is making 1911s. Not S&W will, but they could make and sell a bunch of 3913s and 4513s. Either of which would be better guns than an out of the box 1911.

 

[epj]

Actually...

I think you are twisting the point I was trying to make. I wasn't comparing the value in 1911's to 3rd Gens, I was making the point that Smith & Wesson's current lineup of 1911 pistols are horribly average in a market that is just completely bombed with 1911 pistols from so many gun makers.

You stated your position clearly, and I respect that. Here is mine:
I've had two Baer's, two Ed Browns, two Springfields and other 1911 pistols also. I liked all of them, certainly, but only one remains, and while all were fine guns, none of them brings to the table what my Performance Center pistols (or my 52's) do, and the one thing they will forever lack is the exclusivity of the "lighting in a bottle" that was the Performance Center.

A globe with a hundred gujillion 1911's pistols has made that a life-long certainty.

Should S&W quit making 1911's?
Meh, it's a losing argument for me to discuss it. Simply put... look at how well S&W stock is doing and how good their sales have been. It's plainly obvious that S&W knows -FAR- more about making a buck than I could ever hope to know.

However, that doesn't make this the Golden Age of S&W. I personally believe they are making the worst stuff right now, wholly across the board... then perhaps ever in their long history.

Glad you like your 1911's. I have always been a fan also. Suppose I'm just really tired of the saturated market... but there has never been a 1911 that I would swap either my 845 or PPC-9 to get. And if there was... haha, it would have to be a 1911 light years better than the 1911 pistols that S&W makes right now.

Well, I'm not arguing the virtues of the 1911. If you throw in the PC guns and guns like the 845, 952, etc., that changes things a bit. My 4566 TSW is as accurate as most mid-grade 1911's. It is a keeper. The single actions would be of great interest and could take the place of some of the 1911's.

 

[Scotter260]

Just stopped in to Cabela's today and they had a new Houlton 5946 in the case and "a few" in back.

No magazine safety, had night sights, three mags and 14 dated case envelope.

$699 on sale. Pretty good for a block of stainless, three mags and night sights IMO.

I'm trying to figure out something to trade on one but some years back I purged myself of "kind-of want or like" items and have only "want or like" now.

 

[TTSH]

Just stopped in to Cabela's today and they had a new Houlton 5946 in the case and "a few" in back.

No magazine safety, had night sights, three mags and 14 dated case envelope.

$699 on sale. Pretty good for a block of stainless, three mags and night sights IMO.

I'm trying to figure out something to trade on one but some years back I purged myself of "kind-of want or like" items and have only "want or like" now.

I guess there must have been more of these 5946 leftovers than one might normally expect from a special run. Looks to me like this might have been a cancelled order rather than just a few production extras.

I still think it's too bad that these aren't one of the much more desirable 3rd Gen models. It could have really proven something to S&W management about the size and strength of the market in 2016 for all-metal, non-1911 pistols. Oh well.

BTW, I am really starting to turn sour on modern plastic wonderguns. I mean, even more than usual. I think my interest in plastic has hit a brand new low after my recent purchase of a "used-but-not-abused" Model 645 and a new Sig P226.

2016 is turning out to be the year of the all-metal pistol for poor, old TTSH. And I mean exclusively. I haven't bought anything plastic since last September and don't even see anything on the horizon, even for tax free weekend coming up (a traditional new plastic buying day).

I've even mothballed my (already postponed) plan to someday pick up an SW99 in .45 to complete my SW99 collection. What the heck is happening to me?

 

[molonlabe]

CDI sales had a lot of gen 3s recently on the broker for around 200 each. Granted I can attest if CDI is selling them for that much the finish is gonna be A-TROSHUS.

But if you are one that can refinish your own stuff then by all means have at it.

 

[scoobysnacker]

What I saw from CDISales (Cole's Distributing) was the aluminum framed 5904's and 915's. They did have some 69xx too, I think it was also aluminum... and all were black. If they had stainless, they were more towards the $400 and above mark.
When you talk about refinishing, that makes a difference to the average joe like me. In theory, I can get some polish and a scotchbrite pad, and rub the snot out of stainless steel, and get something resembling clean/new condition. For scratched up and faded aluminum, that's a different beast (I know, I bought one of their $200 CZ99s).

Re the "current production would cost a grand for retail" thought process, consider that final clearance at $700 or $800 for something sitting at the warehouse NIB a couple of years, to just get rid of them (even at Cabela's), actually does sound like it would be priced around $1000 if these were still rolling off the line.

I agree with the idea that the 1911 has forced the 3rd Gens out. S&W can sell them more frequently. This seems to be the case for most 1911 makers, including Ruger. I think Sig is also hedging their bets with their 1911, and was really a little concerned when CZ made a production run.

Isn't Beretta really about the only big company not churning out a 1911 version?

CZ, Sig and Beretta are all making polymer 9 and 40 guns, too. I think Sig and Beretta are gonna hold out with their classic metal lines as long as they have government contracts, and maybe CZ will too. Other than that, they are expensive niche players.
I hate that, because even if it's completely CNC, a metal gun says "craftsmanship" and can be an heirloom, while a plastic one is a disposable tool. You get one to shoot, not to ferret away.

 

[Big Shrek]

I think...
While I understand (basically) the idea you are trying to convey, that little summary is horribly misguided. There is nothing about Taurus where Smith & Wesson should "follow the lead." Except, perhaps, for their willingness to debut oddball and interesting new products.

Taurus has built a reputation for NON-service. They aren't rude, they don't turn customers away, they simply squirrel every problem in to a 12-16 month bottomless hole and often STILL don't actually fix the problem. And this is an issue when your company builds so many poorly constructed and BADLY finished products.

For some reason it sure seems that when we are on the subject of Smith & Wesson 3rd Generation pistols... we have a lot of folks who want to be annoyed at warranty promises from 1989. I can't say the bulk of these complaints are people with broken guns -- usually seem to be concerns about a gun they own that hasn't broke but darn it, they wanna know what is going to happen if it does.

Part of the 12-16 month hole was that all Taurii had to be shipped back to Brazil, with the accompanying insanity of getting to and from there...not to mention the language barrier in getting problems explained properly...

Now they've got a facility in Florida that's taking care of warranty work,
and that little change seems to be making a HUGE difference

My first duty sidearm was a Taurus 66 in .357mag,
after switching the wood grips to rubber, it was a great shooter!
More recently I picked up a 24/7Pro-C compact for CC,
which my wife quickly claimed and made her EDC,
so I snagged her a Pink one, which turned her into a 2-gun gal

Only hiccup we had with either was those 13-rd mags,
and Taurus sent out 17-rd'rs which work perfectly.
Even though there's a recall on 'em due to a safety (on/off) issue,
the safety on both works perfectly, & after the recall hit
I inspected both very carefully to make sure they didn't have the issue.

So maybe I'm a lucky one, but I've no problem with Taurus.
I've had far more issues with Ruger than with Taurus, Star,
S&W, & Keltec combined.

 

[Sevens]

One of my buddies is a long time Taurus afficianado and he's recently soured on them while waiting for his .327 snub to get returned... eight months and counting and it's not over yet.

This probably isn't the place for an all encompassing Taurus discussion, but I think a good Taurus can be a real joy. It's finding a good one that isn't so easy.