CC holder - traffic stop gone bad

[Original post was a rebuke to another member's now removed offensive post.]
 
Last edited:
cp2146 said:
When I was in class to get my LTC (license to carry), I asked the instructor how he would proceed during a traffic stop, and would he automatically inform the officer that he was licensed to carry and was armed. His answer was, he would not volunteer any information unless asked, for two reasons. First, in Texas, the officer is already going to know you are licensed as soon as they run your tags (assuming you are in your own vehicle) because all your info (DL, LTC, vehicle registration, etc.) is linked together in their database. Second, when you have your DL out and ready (before the officer approaches your vehicle), you should also have you LTC in your hand and visible to the officer as he approaches. Then, let the officer take it from there and ask what he/she wants. Also, always remember to answer politely and courteously and comply with the officer's instructions. If you take issue with the reason for being stopped, don't become belligerent. Take it up with the officer's supervisor at another time when tempers have cooled.
Click to expand...

FAIL! You were reaching around for **** before the officer told you to.
 
indie_rocker said:
When I took the class for a Michigan CPL, the instructor was very clear about a few things. The instructor was also an auxiliary police officer.

1) First and foremost, roll the window down, turn the car off, put hands on steering wheel. The officer already knows you have a permit to carry before you tell him. At least in Michigan, it comes up when the plate number is ran.
2) Inform the officer as soon as possible that you are carrying if you are ever pulled over or detained by law enforcement. Duty to inform in MI.
3) Don't refer to it as a "gun." Rather say something like "I have a CPL and I am carrying today, it's on my right hip." Or "there is a firearm in the car." When cops hear "I have a gun" they tend to get nervous.
4) Don't go reaching for ID or paperwork until asked to do so. Once such things are requested, announce your intentions crystal clear before making any moves. "Sir/ma'am, my ID is in my front left pocket, I'm going to get it with my left hand. My registration/proof of insurance is in the glove box and inside the owners manual, I'm going to open it and get the owners manual."


I'm really sorry to hear about this loss of life. We don't know if it was a lack of officer training or maybe the driver was nervous and moving around a lot. We might never know the whole story. I don't think it would have mattered if the guy was white or black. I sure hope to never find myself in a similar situation. Only been pulled over once since getting a CPL 3 years ago. It was an unremarkable traffic stop, I hope they're all like that.
Click to expand...

That right there.
 
I call it as I see, I have no fear of offending anyone, IMO murder is murder whether you have a "badge" or not. I don't agree with the rioting or the police ambushing, but I do think that all these videos bring the truth out today, I'm thinking I should practice with my phone as much as I do with my gun.
 
bigwheelzip said:
Not to judge the story in the news, but for over a half century, my husband has realized that reaching into his back pocket while seated in a car is potentially problematic. He always politely asks permission to exit the car to retrieve his wallet, and rotates his body to keep his hands and pocket in view of the LEO.
Click to expand...

* Cops will most often ask U to stay in your car, don't like people getting out of the vehicle when its stopped (4 a whole litany of reasons). If U get hit your lawyer (or your estate) will allege that its the municipality's $$ fault).
 
Tn642owner said:
Just completed everything here in Tennessee for carry permit. I have been following this story and have one question:
If the officer was fearful of the situation why didn't he immediately retreat back to the cover of his car?
Click to expand...

He could have just jumped back in his car and went back to town and rounded up a posse.....news flash I worked in areas where the nearest backup was an hour away, a car is not good cover....jumping behind the wheel of your car "brackets" U and makes it easy for even a drunk to shoot you......once your committed its not a good idea to turn your back on anyone.
 
Cal44 said:
Assuming you have a minute or so from the time you stop until the officer reaches your door, getting your wallet out and holding it in your hand on the top of the steering wheel would be a good idea.

Then your hands are in sight and you don't have to reach for anything to get your id out.
Click to expand...

As a cop walks up on your stopped vehicle he's eyeballing U for movement, squirming around bending over etc makes cops nervous......digging out stuff from your pockets pending his arrival at your drivers side is "Hinky" Ive been stopped by cops and I are (was) one for bout 30 years, just sit there with your hands on the wheel and await your "salutation" U can flip on the interior lights if it doesn't require alot of movement otherwise the less movement the better
 
A lot depends on where you live and your attitude.

In Tennessee our drivers license number and carry permit are tied together. So when the plate is run they know the registered owner has a carry permit.

I've been pulled over twice. I wasn't asked to assume some type of fetal position to accommodate officer stress over the notion there might be a gun in the vehicle. Heck, the last time I got pulled over I had a target stand with a target riddled with holes in the back of my truck. I reckon that gave the officer a clue I was probably armed :D. He didn't mention anything about a gun, neither did I.

In my adult years, I don't ever remember being the slightest bit fearful in the presence of a cop, nor have I ever sensed the slightest bit of nervousness of an officer around me. I don't play the hands on the dash don't shoot routine around here. Besides... it's perfectly legal to keep a loaded gun in the car absent having a carry permit. Every officer must assume there's one in the vehicle regardless.
 
Last edited:
trooper2899 said:
He could have just jumped back in his car and went back to town and rounded up a posse.....news flash I worked in areas where the nearest backup was an hour away, a car is not good cover....jumping behind the wheel of your car "brackets" U and makes it easy for even a drunk to shoot you......once your committed its not a good idea to turn your back on anyone.
Click to expand...

Well O.K. ... But I was posting about the video the OP posted. I was just wondering if the officer involved had any way he could have deescalated the situation?
 
Imagine that the man in the car was an 18 yo girl or boy, driving home from high school. Do we expect the same traffic stop discipline from them that has been suggested that the driver possibly failed to have demonstrated? If that girl or boy reached for their wallet, would they have been gunned down?

I doubt it.

I find it mind-boggling that any free citizen should be expected to follow a very precise and scripted set of behaviors with regard to a broken tail light traffic stop or be deemed responsible for an officer shooting us at nearly point blank range for not abiding by said script. There's something very wrong with that and where are we teaching people the expectation that they follow a script (windows, interior lights, etc., etc.). That said, I respect greatly the risks law enforcement face with regard to traffic stops. But there are many ways to make them safer if things don't look right.

Perhaps a broken tail lights isn't a good reason to stop a car and place everyone in a position where misunderstandings can result in these shootings.

Lastly, deescalation is precisely the skill set that is greatly needed but sorely lacking in law enforcement these days (yes, a generalization that is not absolute). I work in Corrections and I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that those who possess good deescalation skills and perform "verbal morphine" when communicating with amped-up people are worth their weight in gold and they defuse many, many situations that could easily get out of hand had they instead exhibited aggression. The police officers that I've seen who possess these skills are highly successful in deescalating situations.

In my opinion, we need to move away from the shock and awe model of law enforcement.

Disclaimer: I tried to not to make sweeping assumptions here. My apologies if I failed at that!
 
WVSig said:
Get over it? You are kidding right? Is it standard operating procedure to cover an dying man and an unarmed suspect with your finger in the trigger? I don't have to be there to recognize poor gun handling. He is under stress and you can see him shaking and hear it in his voice. Holding a gun "covering" these people in that manner could have easily resulted in a ND. Clearly YMMV.



I am not speculating I am repeating what is on the tape. I have stated that we do not know all the details of what happened before the facebook video but we do have that. Stating what is one the video does not equal speculation.
Click to expand...

I am not going to speculate on the actions of this officer because I was not there. If the officer feared for his safety and was justified in using deadly force per his department's Policies and Procedures, then it is a justifiable homicide- period, end of story. If the officer acted within the scope of his training in regards to his firearm discipline- finger in the trigger guard, then he is within department policy and again, is without fault. This would then be an extreme example of his Department's and possibly State's Policy Failure in regards to Firearm and Use of Force Training.

The officer still has an armed suspect and another person who is in close proximity inside a vehicle. The female did not appear to respond like a reasonable person who had just witnessed someone being shot and killed within feet of her. Her cool demeanor would send up red flags to the average officer.

Unlike the movies, using deadly force is not an easy thing to do. We know the ramifications of our actions and the effect it can have on all aspects of our lives. The moment after the threat is stopped, emotions flood your body and mind.

My first thought after discharging my firearm is did I stop the deadly threat? Is there anybody else present that is a threat? Did I secure the suspect and do I have control of the instrument or weapon - Yes i handcuff the suspect who just tried to kill me or someone else. Then, when all that is accomplished, I render first aid and call for medical assistance.

This Officer might of went straight to "Condition Red" and screwed the pooch, but I'm not going to base any decisions on a woman who's first action was to live stream the death of a human being instead of trying to safe his life.

To all my comrades out there I say, " Stay safe, but if unable to be safe, be victorious!"
 
In response to above post, is it procedure to cover a wounded subject / suspect with a weapon drawn "YES". Until that person and weapon are secured. The female passenger still had access to the gun. I don't know the situation, just why people find it necessary to get out of their vehicle when I pulled them over. I assess the situation quickly, scanning for weapons and direct the operator to get back in the vehicle and explain after the stop, how unsafe it is to exit a vehicle when an officer has pulled them over.

The female has very strange reactions to her boyfriend being shoot. All the shootings I responded to, family / spouse are crying and yelling for us to help their relative. not talking calmly and filming their loved one dying in front of them????? Wasn't there, shock can do weird things???

I get pulled over, I turn on my light and put my hands on the steering wheel and wait for the Officer's / Trooper's instructions. I tell them I have a weapon. Golden rule: Follow instructions...
 
comtedeloach said:
From what I saw, it's a bad shoot. Not gonna turn out well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Did you see a different video than the rest of us? Cause the shooting wasn't caught on tape. We have the girlfriends statement that the cop told the guy to get his license. Her statement. That is all. Let's not forget the multiple witnesses who came forward and said Michael Brown was in his knees with his hands up, begging the cop not to shoot him. Total lie and proved by undeniable forensic evidence. And even if he DID tell the guy to get his ID, how do we know the guy didn't reach for the gun instead?

This video doesn't smell right. You hear 4 thunderous shots right next to you. Your boyfriend is bleeding and going out of the picture. You have the presence of mind to get your phone, unlock it, open the video app, live stream the video, and calmly state your version of the facts. You don't go to your boyfriends side. Try to comfort him. Try to comfort your daughter in the backseat. I'm calling BS. I believe the phone was ready to record as the cop came up, but where is the beginning of the incident? Could it be it doesn't fit her version of events?
 
trooper2899 said:
* Cops will most often ask U to stay in your car, don't like people getting out of the vehicle when its stopped (4 a whole litany of reasons).
Click to expand...
Yes, that's why he asks permission first. It's been allowed the few times he's needed to produce ID, usually at ID check roadblocks.
 
There are a lot of things missing here! The thing that gets my attention is the cop drawing his gun in the first place! I have had two incidents one on my boat in Florida and one in Ohio. I was stopped by the coast guard in Florida for a safety check. The officer in charge asked if there were any firearms on board and I said yes I have a cc permit and a pistol in my right front pocket. He said ok just don't get it out , that was that. I had a finder bender in Ohio where I spend the summer and was out of my truck when the highway patrol came, I walked over to the officer and told him I had a permit and a gun in my pocket. He smiled said thanks for telling me and that was the end of that. So what is missing here is why the officer had his gun out! Carrying with a permit is not a crime so I don't think that is a reason to pull your gun. Something happened to cause the officer to draw his gun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Grimjaws
Recent events have forced me to change direction on my EDC
4 5 6
Replies
104
Views
7K
Rocketmedic40
R
lawandorder
A tragic incident in Fargo ND that should deeply concern....
Replies
17
Views
2K
LVSteve
LVSteve
Faulkner
Tales from the Faulkner Files: Vehicle vs deer
2 3
Replies
42
Views
2K
steelslaver
steelslaver
F
Young Brothers Massacre, A tactical expert opinion.
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
tbob38
T
LVSteve
Reflections on my recent UK trip (Long)
Replies
5
Views
668
326MOD10
3

Latest posts

Back
Top