What is going on with S&W?????

[BigBill]

I been a ruger guy for many decades. No screws to come loose on the security sixes, RedHawks. But with stout magnum loads in my SBH the grip frame screws did come loose but they had a right too. I was beyond max charges no smith could handle them. But I finally got into smiths.
I like colts too.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

If the idiots at S&W have now decided to make a GUN finish that won't stand up to Hoppes #9, they better get ready for one heck of a lot of warranty work. Hoppes #9 has been a staple of many cleaning benches for a loooong time, and some fine print in the back of an S&W instruction manual ain't gonna cut it...

I know many of your so called idiots at Smith & Wesson. Call them that face to face! It's fine hiding behind a key board. If you think they are all idiots why would you send back a gun for warranty work. I'll suggest that they get fitted for drool cups.

 

[BigBill]

I use the orginal USGI Rifle Bore Cleaner sparingly. To clean the bores only. I use the USGI Light Weapons Oil were needed. The inner metal on metal moving parts I lube with moly.

 

[HeyJoe]

I know many of your so called idiots at Smith & Wesson. Call them that face to face! It's fine hiding behind a key board. If you think they are all idiots why would you send back a gun for warranty work. I'll suggest that they get fitted for drool cups.

The coating they put on models such as the 638, 442, and the scandium cylinders, are not up to the task. they peel easily and are not durable. I have a 332 that started peeling under the grips and I never used Hoppes #9 or any other cleaner containing ammonia, nor did i use any abrasive brush or cloth. For the money that these guns go for, the finish should be better quality. There is no excuse for it.

 

[AlHunt]

I guess I have to weigh in on this loose screw issue. I don't recall any screws coming loose on any firearms I've owned in the last 40+ years. Admittedly, it's probably less than a hundred, but still some of those were fired extensively.

However, it seems like the answer is always to Loctitie the offending screw. If this is really an issue, why don't gun manufacturers just Loctite them at the factory?

 

[iPac]

You're right. This is very clearly a sign of substandard workmanship. I'll be very happy to PM you later with my FFL details to take that hunk of junk off your hands.

^^^ Take him up on this offer and be done with it.

I agree with the comments about defending this QC, as it does nothing to help correct it.

The finish issue is not QC related, but they need to make a MUCH better effort to warn consumers about using certain products on the newer finishes because like mentioned Hoppes 9 has been a staple product for decades. Most people are well versed in the use of a revolver, so who is gonna read the manual to page 32 to discover a rather VAGUE statement on solvent use?

As for the rest of the issues, they are definitely QC related. Why is it that everybody for the first 75% of the thread just bashed him about screws coming loose and not the B/C gap, end-shake, canted barrel, or stop pin in rebound slide?

First, I honestly have never had a screw work loose, except on my Colt SAA, which is understandable due to the design. My 2 S&Ws have never had the screws loosen, but they aren't new productions. However, I do dis-assemble every "new to me" gun I get and then tighten the screws myself upon re-assemble without the use of polish or loctite. They stay put.

The rest of the issues, you can say they are all "within spec according to S&W" but that is another excuse. I would never own a gun with the specs the OP has stated. I am used to B/C gap of about .004 and endshake of .000.

However, this could all have been solved by thoroughly inspecting the guns before purchase, except the finish of course. Which makes me ask the question, why would they make something that can't use a staple solvent of the last century?

 

[scooter123]

Screws will shoot loose on a revolver, get used to it. If you don't like it then don't purchase a revolver.

The color change of the cylinder is a bit surprising. However, if the cylinder is a Melonite treated cylinder then that color change is simply a result of the cleaner srtipping the oil from that particular type of finish. The solution is to wet a paper towel with WD-40, rub that oil into the finish and then wipe it with a dry paper towel. Doing this will re-oil the finish to provide proper corrosion protection and cause the finish to look black again. BTW, ANY oxide finish on steel actually requires some oil within the pores of the finish to provide a complete corrosion barrier.

As for the End Shake on the R8, I can only assume that someone who expect screws to be tight after 250 rounds downrange would also check for End Shake with that cylinder retaining screw still backed almost all the way out. The solution is to tighten the cylinder retaining screw. Note, if my assumption about the lack of awareness of the OP is incorrect then returning the revolver to S&W for warranty service is rather obvious, because a new revolver should never have that much end shake. In fact in all of my entire shooting life I have never actually handled a revolver with this much End Shake. While they may be out there I've never seen one. Kind of hard for me to believe a new revolver would ever ship with this much End Shake. However, knowing how sensitive that new spring loaded cylinder retaining screw design is to being tight I have to suspect the End Shake issue is more likely due to a damaged cylinder retaining screw.

 

[BigCityChief]

You mean those guys who've been making fine weapons for 160-plus years? Those folks who've given us the Model 3, the 27, the 28, the 29, and the 25? And all those semi-autos? Those revolvers called "Hand Ejectors"?

Are those guys the "idiots" you're talking about?

Just curious.

You overlooked my beloved Model 10 and Model 36!


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[Pdxrealtor]

Screws will shoot loose on a revolver, get used to it. If you don't like it then don't purchase a revolver.

The color change of the cylinder is a bit surprising. However, if the cylinder is a Melonite treated cylinder then that color change is simply a result of the cleaner srtipping the oil from that particular type of finish. The solution is to wet a paper towel with WD-40, rub that oil into the finish and then wipe it with a dry paper towel. Doing this will re-oil the finish to provide proper corrosion protection and cause the finish to look black again. BTW, ANY oxide finish on steel actually requires some oil within the pores of the finish to provide a complete corrosion barrier.

As for the End Shake on the R8, I can only assume that someone who expect screws to be tight after 250 rounds downrange would also check for End Shake with that cylinder retaining screw still backed almost all the way out. The solution is to tighten the cylinder retaining screw. Note, if my assumption about the lack of awareness of the OP is incorrect then returning the revolver to S&W for warranty service is rather obvious, because a new revolver should never have that much end shake. In fact in all of my entire shooting life I have never actually handled a revolver with this much End Shake. While they may be out there I've never seen one. Kind of hard for me to believe a new revolver would ever ship with this much End Shake. However, knowing how sensitive that new spring loaded cylinder retaining screw design is to being tight I have to suspect the End Shake issue is more likely due to a damaged cylinder retaining screw.

You are missing the point that others so clearly understand. The strain screw and cylinder retaining screws were not assembled correctly from the factory.

The screw was tightened before end shake was tested. It was tightened before this thread was posted if I remember correctly.

I would say the people whining about me having an issue with loose screws spend too much time tightening their poorly assembled revolver screws vs. other screws that seem to be loose.

I just opened up my new Kuhnhausen revolver shop manual. Sadly I was not surprised to see the very topic of S&W performance center quality control issues discussed at the end of the book.

Forget about the screws. Focus on the words 'big picture'

 

[Revoman]

I said it in another thread. As demand increases they hire more temps.

Their bonus program is based on units produced.

Until they tie the bonus program to units returned there is no incentive to produce a better product.

 

[vytoland]

i am shocked and confused......cant believe that ALL the products i purchase are not PERFECT.....the horror, the horror.....

 

[shawn mccarver]

You mean those guys who've been making fine weapons for 160-plus years? Those folks who've given us the Model 3, the 27, the 28, the 29, and the 25? And all those semi-autos? Those revolvers called "Hand Ejectors"?

Are those guys the "idiots" you're talking about?

Just curious.

I believe he is talking about the brain-dead idiots who are currently in charge, the same ones who told Mr. Jinks he was not qualified to be the company historian.

So, yes the current brain-dead idiots are likely who he means as the engineers who gave us the classics you listed are now with John Moses Browning, likely dismayed at the current, "highly skilled" types that the modern education system is turning out these days.

 

[jtcarm]

I believe he is talking about the brain-dead idiots who are currently in charge, the same ones who told Mr. Jinks he was not qualified to be the company historian.

So, yes the current brain-dead idiots are likely who he means as the engineers who gave us the classics you listed are now with John Moses Browning, likely dismayed at the current, "highly skilled" types that the modern education system is turning out these days.

Take it to the S&W forums. You'll fit right in.

 

[riverrat38]

No, nail polish.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Linseed oil is used by bicycle wheel builders to keep spoke nipples from loosening under vibration.
Less invasive than Locktite or nail polish.

Best,
Rick

 

[GreenWenonah]

The last couple "J" Frames I worked on had the opposite problem, side plate screws so tight I had to exert a heck of a lot of pressure to break them loose to remove the cylinders. The 431PD i just worked on (to do an action job), showed me another screw slot size, so I needed to use another different bit for my screwdriver. I'm now up to about 6 different ones for various different vintage revolvers side plate screws.

My new J-frame had the same issue, when I sheared off a carefully fitted bit it made a tiny little scratch next to the top sideplate screw. All three screw slots deformed when removing them (yes, I used the correct bit and nearly burned my hand) so I ordered new screws from Numrich and installed them with purple locktit.

Clearly they didn't want mere mortals messing around in the lock work.

 

[41magnut]

.....You wouldn't douse wood and plastic grips with Gun Scrubber, would you?

Only once. [emoji856]



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[smithman]

I know many of your so called idiots at Smith & Wesson. Call them that face to face! It's fine hiding behind a key board. If you think they are all idiots why would you send back a gun for warranty work. I'll suggest that they get fitted for drool cups.

Pass on the drool cups. Could you at least recommend glasses to them though? That may help everyone involved.

 

[cmj8591]

I went on to suggest that they put a big red info sheet in the box stating damage would occur if certain cleaners (that have been used for years, and still work on a lot of their new revolvers) may damage the finish. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense.

Maybe they should stamp "READ OWNERS MANUAL BEFORE USE" on the gun next to the amperstamp just to remind people.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I said it in another thread. As demand increases they hire more temps.

Their bonus program is based on units produced.

Until they tie the bonus program to units returned there is no incentive to produce a better product.

Where does your "inside" information coming from about temps. I'd also like to know more about their bonus program.

 

[BigBill]

Looking at the side plate and screws from an engineering stand point are the screws backing out or stretching? The wedge angle of the frame and plate tells me when the frame flexes the screws are stretching?