What is going on with S&W?????

[OLDSTER]

Smith and Wesson

None of my S&W revolvers are newer than 1980; and they're beautiful in every aspect, as expected back in the day. The only new S&W I've purchased in a long time is this 360J that I bought a few years back when they first surfaced. This has become my favorite carry, by far, 15 oz. loaded with Critical Defense 110 grain. This thing is flawless, still after over 500 rounds. Fit and finish is perfect, trigger is at least as good as any J frame I've owned, and POA to POI at 7 yards is spot on. I understand that, for several reasons, quality and service at S&W ( as well as most other manufacturers) may have declined as a sign of the times, but this little gun is top notch

 

[cowboy4evr]

The problem of good employees retiring is only part of the problem . With such high demand , they simply can't keep up production . Hiring new people with experience is always a problem . It's not just S&W having difficulties . I have personally witnessed 2 brand new right out of the box glocks having issues , FTF and FTE . I'm not a glock fan ( at all ) but I will recognize the fact that they have always had a sterling reputation for reliability . I come back to the statement I made earlier about the huge rush of buyers in these days . They simply have not been able to keep up with production . Hiring experienced people , is always tough especially in a business like manufacturing .
Over the years I have sent in 4 guns for service work . I've had one bad experience and I ended up fixing it myself , a problem with the frame mounted firing pin . So , yes I will still buy S&W .

 

[jdvass]

Did the GM product fade from washing it?

If your old truck was a diesel would you put diesel in your new truck even if the owners manual said it had a gas engine?

Things change, including gun finishes. Read the manual. If it says not not to use solvents that contain ammonia and you still do that is not S&W's fault in my opinion.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

That's an absurd comparison.

Peoples inability to understand the big picture just blows...... My...... Mind....

 

[regalsc]

I have always been negligent in reading owners manuals especially on gun purchases. I read reviews & problems on the particular one I am purchasing. I have 3 SC/ti revolvers that from research I already knew what cleaning products to use & not use. For 50+ years I always thought hoppes #9 was the solvent to use but times & product finishes change.

 

[jdvass]

That's an absurd comparison.

Peoples inability to understand the big picture just blows...... My...... Mind....

Okay, your right, probably not the best comparison It was the best I could come up with at the time.

What I was trying to say though is read the manual when you purchase a new product. Is the finish as good as older finishes? It doesn't sound like it is. Has Smith & Wesson quality slipped from what it was forty years ago? Maybe. But the bottom line is the problem could have been avoided by reading and following the manufacturers instructions.

In my opinion it makes absolutely no sense to blame the manufacturer for not following the information provided in the manual supplied with the product.

That is all. I'm going shooting!

 

[S&W Rover]

I just picked up my 686-6 Plus 3" -- superb fit and finish. Barrel on straight; all screws tight; and the new-style round butt rubber grips are excellent. (Grips are a matter of personal preference, but these are better for me than any aftermarket grip -- and I've tried most of them at one time or another). DA trigger is smooth; SA trigger is very smooth and light. This revolver is very good - and when taken to the range for the first time tonight, shot very well. Everything from light .38 Special rounds to Fed 125 Grain .357 Magnum rounds.

Moral of the story is that S&W still makes some pretty fine revolvers, but in the context of this thread, sometimes guns with problems sneak through and get out to the customers. The first line of defense is a slow, careful inspection of the gun at the point of sale. The second line of defense is S&W Customer service -- which means the new owner has to swallow hard, be patient, and describe exactly what is wrong with the gun, and then be patient some more. These problems shouldn't happen and I feel bad every time I see someone bring a case like that to the forum.

I would be careful going to a gunsmith for a repair that S&W should do, although I understand the temptation to get something small fixed quickly by a local 'smith rather than sending the gun back to S&W and waiting.

Added: I want to believe S&W is making guns as good as their best of the past, but I know they rely more on the machine doing accurate work and measuring tolerances (e.g., CNC machines) then they do on old-fashioned QC. I am guessing a lot of gun makers have had to ramp up extra shifts to keep the lines moving, but are reluctant to invest in new plant or training workers -- when they don't know how long this boom is going to last.

 

[gsparesa]

I would like to thank the OP and the rest of you fine people commenting on this thread. NOW I KNOW!

 

[OlongJohnson]

Any company that has to answer to stockholders must balance quality out the door with profit in the door. The level of "acceptable" Q.C. may rise and fall as the stock value rises and falls.

Only for companies managed for the short term.

Toyota and Honda didn't put Detroit into bankruptcy by following the policy you describe. They did it by putting quality above all else and making it a way of life for everybody in the organization, from top to bottom. Quality and efficiency are partners, not competitors. If your production process is at all efficient, the cost of taking in and repairing a single return eats all your profit from many, many new unit sales. Relying on a lifetime warranty policy to "manage" an outgoing product quality problem is suicidal. No company can afford to ship poor quality product over the long term.

 

[OlongJohnson]

Also, although something else clearly happened on the stainless steel cylinder here, "scandium" is just a small percentage added to an aluminum alloy. Anodizing has very little resistance to alkali or acidic compounds. Even if there is still anodizing left on the surface, they may remove enough material to open the pores and cause the dye to be removed, leaving light-colored splotches on the surface.

You wouldn't believe how many owners of high-end vehicles have anodized wheel and brake components damaged by "professionals" they pay good money to detail their cars. And of course, they always blame the manufacturer of the part, rather than "their guy".

 

[Louchia]

If the idiots at S&W have now decided to make a GUN finish that won't stand up to Hoppes #9, they better get ready for one heck of a lot of warranty work. Hoppes #9 has been a staple of many cleaning benches for a loooong time, and some fine print in the back of an S&W instruction manual ain't gonna cut it...

I would read the owners manual. I believe it says something about not using ammonia base cleaners. Suggest using Hoppes synthetic.

 

[slabside2]

Gunsmiths are a thing of the past now the new term is assemblers doing piece work. (Non Union) Not trying to open the door with the whole union vs open shop. Just saying.

 

[Mulebuk Sam]

They did it by putting quality above all else and making it a way of life for everybody in the organization, from top to bottom.

Relying on a lifetime warranty policy to "manage" an outgoing product quality problem is suicidal.

They sure did ! When I was growing up 'made in Japan' met junk. That all started to change in the late 60's by the 70's they own us.

And to be perfectly honest, when S&W started offering that I became very suspicious. I'm always amazed at how the younger generations out there think that truly mean something, they are nothing more than marketing gimmicks.

Taurus is a good example, what good does it do to have a life time warranty when you are constantly sending it in for repair.
Of course the big difference is most gun people looking for better know that Taurus is a hit or a miss with more miss's than hits.

Ruger doesn't even offer one cause they know their revolvers are built like tanks and very few gun company's can mach their customer service. It's unspoken, unwritten but if you ever have a problem just call them.

I sent an email off to the CEO over at Ruger almost two years ago about if they would ever come out with a model like the Governor or Judge, had they I would not have bought my Governor. I like it and am impressed, but for close to $700.00 hundred dollars it better last. And I take care of my stuff and don't abuse or tinker with things beyond my scope of understanding.

Even Sig Sauers customer service has gone down the crapper and they are just as pricey. It's all become about shareholder profit in a throw away society.

Here's an interesting story I read some years ago concerning Toyota. In 1968 the chairman then of Toyota visited the States and he and his people rented a Toyota to drive to Vegas from L.A. The car broke down numerous times along the way. When they got back to Japan their whole mentality changed and the rest is history as they say.

I had a 1968 Toyota Corona in the early 80's that went over 200,000 thousand miles before the head gasket blew. I never even changed the oil in it. (just added ) And that car was built before their quality really got good. Problem we have in America as well today, we lost our sense of pride the Japanese live by it.

It use to be when you spent top dollar for something it was expected to be better quality. Now in 2016 it's anyone's guess if a $300.00 dollar Charter Arms would be just as good as a S&W.

And for the record, I'm not here to bash S&W, I am rather proud to be part of such a long history in America by owning one of their revolvers.
BIG Hoss is the last gun I ever buy.