Model 19 cracked forcing cone - odds

[DRankin]

Cracked and missing forcing cones do happen. I saw several.

Avoid high pressure light bullet .357 loads. They hit their pressure peak right at the barrel cylinder gap.

Heavier bullets at the same pressure hit the peak down the barrel a bit. Much easier on the gun.

 

[Engine49guy]

1972 manufactured Model 66 badly needed a complete overhaul by 1980. I had S&W overhaul it,
View attachment 791462

Wondering if that 66 came with a .500 wide flash chromed target hammer / trigger and if so how low your serial is?

To the OP,
The K magnums weakness is the forcing cone flat spot at the 6 O'clock position, the L frame eliminated that weakness.
I havent handled the new K magnum but does your new one have that flat spot weakness?
If so perhaps an L frame is a better way to go, especially the new 7 shot Mountain gun with iL deleted, those tapered barrels and 7th hole actually make that MG lighter than a 6 shot K magnum plus 1 more round capacity.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Bought a new no lock model 19. Not too impressed. Not going to bash QC, but it got me wondering … I've read that on the older Model 19's the forcing cone could crack under constant full power loads. I shoot 158 grain, 357.

Are cracked forcing cones on older Model 19s really an issue or is it so rare I shouldn't worry about it? May just get me an older Model 19.

Probably not as likely with 158s. Anything heavier than 145 grain should be ok. The problem was the shorter bullets 125s, 110s, etc. As the bullet passed from the cylinder into the barrel through the barrel shank and forcing cone, the lighter bullets were too short and they did not keep the gap "closed" long enough to let the violent forces subside and apparently that tiny fraction of a second less was enough to cause the flame cutting. S&W and the FBI figured this out and that is why the FBI chose the Winchester Silvertip in .357 Magnum, which had a 145 grain bullet rather than the 125 grain load which screamed along at 1,450 fps.

 

[AC Man]

My first revolver was a 1975 model 13/ 19 K frame as well. I have shot nothing but factory 357 ammo thru it for 50 years. Still looks like new.

 

[fatmanranch]

Got a 6" Patridge sight 19 in 1976. Shot a bunch of Lyman/Thompson 158 SWCGC, a stout charge of 2400 in 38 Spl. brass, crimped in the lower groove. Gun was accurate and I shot it enough that Pepsi cans at 30 yards got hit 50-60% of the time. Never a problem with the forcing cone.

What I have read is that soft lead bullets will leave a buildup of lead in the forcing cone. Firing a hot jacketed bullet without a thorough cleaning may cause a split.

I wish I had that gun back, and that in my older age I could still shoot that well, or at least see the sights.

 

[Rock185]

Engine49guy, No, my 66 did not come with the wide trigger and hammer. I asked S&W to install those while they were overhauling it. It came back with the case hardened target trigger and hammer, and a note indicating these were not available in stainless. Robbie Barrkman electroless nickeled the hammer and trigger for me..

 

[Alk8944]

The barrel shank cracks are real, but the real problem was not factory ammunition but re-loaders that wanted to get the absolute most out of their handloads by "hotroding" them, loading above book maximum loads! The new S&Ws have pretty much solved the problem by changing the barrel shank to improve its strength. Stick with factory ammunition, or loading manual listed loads and you should be okay with your new gun.

 

[chief38]

The vintage model 19 was never initially designed to shoot magnum loads. When they drilled out the chambers so magnums were capable of being shot, they were meant for ocassional Law Enforcement duty use, but still not for a steady diet of magnums. My suggestion is to use your M19 (or vintage one) with 38 specials on a routine basis and on rare occasion, a few 158 grain (not light bullets as they seem to be much harder on the gun) magnums should be tolerable.

If you want to pound out large numbers of magnums, get yourself a vintage L or N Frame or a new Colt Python or larger frame Colt revolver. Colt has stepped up their quality and from what I have seen lately, they are excellent guns. A few minor issues out of the gate, but great now.

I own a bunch of M19's and M65's and have always treated them as .38 special revolvers - with only an occasional magnum through them. 158 grain mild magnums is what I'll use on those rare occasions. No issues. I also own L & N frames for when I want to make some noise. I reload so I am able to produce mild 158 grain magnums at will.

 

[Mk VII]

Even m/l Colts have been known to do this. Jordan & Watt illustrate one in their book on 1849 Pockets

 

[Greyman50]

Bought my 19-3 in mid 70s and fired 10 of thousands rounds in it with no issues. Hand loaded most and Never felt inadequate loading reasonable loads of my assorted cast bullets or jacketed rounds. Not sure how many K frame 357s I have but they are all fine. Years ago at one of our gun club's swap meets saw a 4" Mdl. 66 thats forcing cone looked like a sieve with several cracks, guy in club bought it and guess he changed the barrel.

 

[chief38]

Bought my 19-3 in mid 70s and fired 10 of thousands rounds in it with no issues. Hand loaded most and Never felt inadequate loading reasonable loads of my assorted cast bullets or jacketed rounds. Not sure how many K frame 357s I have but they are all fine. Years ago at one of our gun club's swap meets saw a 4" Mdl. 66 thats forcing cone looked like a sieve with several cracks, guy in club bought it and guess he changed the barrel.

BTW, I have also repaired a few M66 / M19's for a shooting buddy that had so much end shake they would not fire more than a few rounds per cylinder any more. I used .001" & .002" shims to fix them, however when using shims for the repair, you also widen the barrel cylinder gap beyond what I like. Just something to be aware of and realiize there is no quick/perfect fix for a stretched revolver. The revolver's I'm referring to here were shot often with magnums, and light bullets as well. Even though the forcing cones had not cracked, they were indeed damaged. IMHO best to not tempt fate in the first place. Other than a few magnums for ha ha's or hunting, sticking with 38 spl. and +P ammo is not a bad idea for use in K & J frames.

 

[Greyman50]

Well those that shoot many hot loads will find out, sooner or later.

 

[Engine49guy]

The vintage model 19 was never initially designed to shoot magnum loads. When they drilled out the chambers so magnums were capable of being shot, they were meant for ocassional Law Enforcement duty use, but still not for a steady diet of magnums. My suggestion is to use your M19 (or vintage one) with 38 specials on a routine basis and on rare occasion, a few 158 grain

The first statement No.
Second one yes.
S&W did not just "drill out" a K cylinder to fit .357, they lengthened it at the front for the longer bullets and at the rear to recess the case heads then added heat treating to strengthen the K frame to handle Magnums.
It wasnt intended for "occasional duty use" it was specifically aimed at being a lighter option than the N frame .357's at the behest of legendary Border Patrolman Bill Jordan IIRC .

 

[hjdca]

Back in the day, I bought a new K-Frame .357 when the stainless steel version first came out with those nice target grips... I had just started re-loading and I shot thousands of hot .357 loads through it. Eventually the barrel came loose and I traded it to a gunsmith that pinned the barrel. Since it was new, that gun always spit out the side... However, it was always super accurate, and had a great action.

 

[chief38]

The first statement No.
Second one yes.
S&W did not just "drill out" a K cylinder to fit .357, they lengthened it at the front for the longer bullets and at the rear to recess the case heads then added heat treating to strengthen the K frame to handle Magnums.
It wasnt intended for "occasional duty use" it was specifically aimed at being a lighter option than the N frame .357's at the behest of legendary Border Patrolman Bill Jordan IIRC .

Yes - technically you are correct. I was just trying to cut to the chase regarding the cylinder being longer. As far as heat treating is concerned, I am not so sure about that on the original M19's but won't argue as I am not a S&W Metallurgist. As far as I can remember, (even back in the day) it was always recommended that K Frame Magnums be shot sparingly with magnums. Most practice sessions were recommended to shoot with 38 specials. My Dad was a Fed. and a few years before he retired he was issued a M19 and then a M66 - both 2.5" bbl's. He was warned then not to shoot an abundance of magnums. In fact, the Agents were issued 38 special +P and +P+ instead of magnums, for duty use. I'm sure some of that decision was also politically driven, but he told me back then the guns were just not designed for heavy usage with lightweight magnums.

From what I recall, Bill Jordan (the driving force behind the M19) was pushing for a lightweight, belt carry gun for LEO's that was capable of shooting magnums in duty situations. We are really not privy to the discussions he had with the powers that be at the S&W plant regarding how much punishment a K frame at the time could endure. While they did produce the model, it was widely known shortly thereafter that the M19 had its ammo limitations and recommendations going forward. That was always a discussion and decision to me made when one contemplated buying a M19/66, M65/M13.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Well those that shoot many hot loads will find out, sooner or later.

I was shooting medium loads when mine cracked........I have never "hot rodded" any handgun load.......Stuff happens.

 

[dpsmousegunner]

Only saw one happen on a 66 at a qualification. The armory staff always drilled into our heads to always make sure that you cleaned the weapon after firing lead WC rounds. The lead would would build up in the forcing cone and upon firing a jacketed service round would compress the lead in the cone outward and could crack the it. Always followed their instructions and my 66 is still good today.

 

[Mdprice]

There are well documented cases of L frame and N frame S&W revolvers launching the barrel downrange when it sheared off at the frame. Pressures of 40K+ psi are violent regardless of metallurgy. Shoot yer guns, don't worry about them. Joe

Never had a problem with hydro shocks and golden sabers in my 19-2, thank God!

 

[Greyman50]

Religiously Clean my pistols after shooting, always have and always will.

 

[Muley Gil]

I've been reading gun magazines since the late 1960s. At one time, the word "Magnum", when attached to police revolvers, would send mayors, police chiefs and other officials into conniption fits. Many LE officers were restricted to .38 special revolvers or if using .357 revolvers, .38 special ammo.

The +P+ ammo was developed to provide .357 Magnum performance while still maintaining that it wasn't a "Magnum loading". The information I read back in the day was that the +P+ ammo was to be restricted to revolvers chambered in .357.