New 929 owner and I broke it first day at the range

[Cakley]

The 9mm is not really a new modern cartridge. It hit the road about 1908. Looking at it and holding it in your hands , you could not tell it was rim-less cuz there is no rim.

You ought to admit you do not know what you think you know and learn more about what you have and how to operate it.

I did pause and look into the manual, after seeing that the 9mm case looked to have a thin rim or even be "rim less". The manual only directly talked about .45acp. It's was labeled 9mm on the barrel and the 9mm fit into the cylinder. Silly me. I won't be the only idiot to shoot the ammo without the moon clips.

If I hadn't dug into the back of the case to see what all was included, I would had never even noticed the three thin moon clips.

 

[da gimp]

Cakley, are you saying that this large local gun store that you bought it from, which you say gives great customer service... NEVER told you this revolver requires the use of half moon or full moon clips...? I'm just a poor old simple country boy... I must be missing something....

All of us make mistakes.., & trying to run a cylinder full thru your new handgun, without going to the trouble of stripping the fired cases from the few clips you had was a mistake you'll not make in the future.

Did you buy the two tools needed to load the moon/half moon clips & to remove the fired cases/rounds from them yet? Surely the store offered to sell you some, or to at least order them for you. Keep them in your

 

[BUFF]

Cakley:

That is an extremely nice revolver you bought and I hope, if your local shop can fix it, they can do it simply and quickly.

Just be advised, if they need any parts, like the extractor, the odds of them having the parts on hand are very, very small. I doubt that ANYBODY has a spare 8 shot, 9mm, N frame extractor on hand except the factory. If they don't have the parts, they will have to order them from S&W, so you may not save any down time by using the locals.

 

[Cakley]

Cakley, are you saying that this large local gun store that you bought it from, which you say gives great customer service... NEVER told you this revolver requires the use of half moon or full moon clips...? I'm just a poor old simple country boy... I must be missing something.... Nope they never told me. Then again I didn't ask. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the salesman didn't know. Revolvers that need moon clips are not the common. I'm sure they sell 100:1 semi-autos per revolver and even greater spread on moon clip revolvers. You'd think a high volume big store would try and up sale the accessories needed; such as the moon clip tools. Or that a 1000$ revolver would come with a moon clip tool. A 400$ glock comes with a magazine loader tool.

All of us make mistakes.., & trying to run a cylinder full thru your new handgun, without going to the trouble of stripping the fired cases from the few clips you had was a mistake you'll not make in the future. I made several mistakes... I might not had even used the moon clips had I not dug around in the back of the case and found them. They were new and very tight so I couldn't get the brass to come out with my fingers or even using a Allene wrench to prior. Then I failed to know that 9mm is in fact rimless ammo. Then my mistakes continued as I tried to use the extractor to catch the lip and push that one case out.

Did you buy the two tools needed to load the moon/half moon clips & to remove the fired cases/rounds from them yet? Surely the store offered to sell you some, or to at least order them for you. Keep them in your

BMT ordered yesterday. From research the Tk moon clips are some of the better ones, in still researching which moon clips are good. I don't need super tight competition moon clips. Just need some clips that will work with what we ever ammo I am using; reloads, surplus or home defense.

 

[old&slow]

We learn new things every day. I'm 64 and I'm still learning things.

Sorry, you messed up your new firearm. I'd say sent it back to S&W ,, tell them the problem ,, and let them fix it.

Chalk it up as something new you learned today. Pay to get it fixed. And move on.

I'd be willing to bet you aren't the first one to do something wrong and mess something up and probably won't the the last.

 

[sw282]

Moon clips are a PAIN...l used to shoot rimless in my 25-2 all the time..

A pencil w/eraser served me well as an extractor. Works good on 9mm..

Guy at Shooters has a 986, pencil/eraser too..Groaty cyl tho, wont clean.

l guess S&W forgot about them making 547s. No moonies NEEDED

 

[robert1804]

For anyone interested, the last paragraph on page 11 of the Safety and Instruction manual specifically states that moon clips must be used with rimless cartridges in all S&W revolvers, except the Model 547.

I have a 986 and looking in the cylinder, there is not a distinct step or ridge for a 9mm round to headspace on. There is only a tapered area leading into the throats. In this gun, without moon clips, the headspace would vary depending in the outside diameter of the case mouth and the OAL of the cartridge. I'm sure some ammo would fire and some would surely not.

I've not looked at the cylinder of a 929, but if the chambers are cut like my 986 (and I bet they are), I wouldn't shoot it without moon clips at all. Since the rim and recess of 9mm luger ammo is well standardized, moon clips will give you consistent head spacing and easy extraction.

 

[peterthefish]

BMT ordered yesterday. From research the Tk moon clips are some of the better ones, in still researching which moon clips are good. I don't need super tight competition moon clips. Just need some clips that will work with what we ever ammo I am using; reloads, surplus or home defense.

The cheap(er) stamped TK clips will do fine, they're the same as what came w the gun. No need for his EDM stainless clips and matching brass unless you're consistently breaking 3 second reloads.

The 929 isn't very well suited to the "I want a revolver in a cartridge I commonly shoot" crowd, as you've learned. Moon clips are picky about brass style / maker. Remington brass just falls out! My 929 had terrible accuracy with .355 bullets, but does well with .357 sizes bullets. The factory should be embarrassed to put out a gun with Jerry's name on it and not even use his spring kit in the gun to give a halfway decent pull.

A 627 PC is a far more versatile gun, and if I didn't shoot competitively I wouldn't bother with a 929.

 

[Cakley]

^ that's what I'm learning. I purchase the 929 on impulse. I had went looking to handle a Raging Judge. We are getting a lot of home invasions in my area. So I was looking for a coffee table gun that would be easy to grab. -just an excuse to buy a new gun . I saw the 929 "performance center" and thought that's a nice range gun that I can learn a new pistol skill set. I've never owned a revolver.

But now I know the 929 "performance center" isn't really much of an upgrade. It still needs a gunsmith to polish up the movement, perhaps a trigger job, custom ammo, and a fancy moon clip loader.



I'm going to keep the gun and slowly work on what ever it needs. I'll be happy with box 9mm ammo if it can shoot 2" groups at 25 yards. That's well beyond my accuracy level.

 

[poordevil]

I did pause and look into the manual, after seeing that the 9mm case looked to have a thin rim or even be "rim less". The manual only directly talked about .45acp. It's was labeled 9mm on the barrel and the 9mm fit into the cylinder. Silly me. I won't be the only idiot to shoot the ammo without the moon clips.

If I hadn't dug into the back of the case to see what all was included, I would had never even noticed the three thin moon clips.

How old are you? All pistol cartridges that are not Auto or Revolver specific need special treatment. A round that is an Auto Loading Pistol round needs the clips to work in a revolver, (Just as they did in 1917) A round that is a revolver Round (which by it's nature is a rimmed round) does not need the clips. But clips may be used with those revolver rounds that are adapted for them. These are things we learn about when look at a gun and consider buying it. If you do not know how to operate your gun or the little nuances of it , ... you are a hazard to yourself and others near you.

I only say this after shooting guns of all kinds from muzzleloaders to full auto for 54 years Learn your craft.

 

[Neumann]

Moon rings are required to make extraction easy. Rimless cartridges like .45 ACP or 9 mm will also headspace on the lip, just as in a pistol. Cases should come out with light finger pressure and a pencil or dowel. No hammering should be required. Otherwise it would be nearly impossible to eject them with a moon clip either. A steel Allen wrench would not be my first choice, but should be okay in an emergency.

Steel cased ammunition is coated with lacquer to impart some degree of corrosion resistance. It can melt and stick to the chamber wall. It is primarily intended for use in semi-automatic firearms, which ejects the case before this can happen, although the next unfired case can stick if the barrel is extremely hot. A residue can also build up on the chamber wall.

If a lot of force was required, you may have bent the crane, causing the cylinder to bind. It's easier than you might think. Fortunately it's not difficult to straighten using the proper tools and training. The star/extractor can be replaced too, but may require some hand fitting. The ejector may have been bent during your enthusiastic efforts to remove spent cases.

 

[Tom S.]

Everyone (self included) makes mistakes. In this case, the biggest mistake was in not reading and comprehending the manual first before firing the weapon, especially since both the weapon and apparently the cartridge were new for the user.

This initial mistake caused the mistake of not using the moon clips and was compounded by cheap ammo and the attempted repair of a firearm by someone untrained in firearm repair.

I hope something has been learned from these series of mistakes, but from what was said about reading the manual section on moon clips and rimless cartridges, I'm not sure the learning curve is over yet. The manual does talk specifically about the 45 acp, but it also states other rimless cartridges require the use of moon clips and the fact that the revolver came with moon clips, should have been clear indication of their need. Again, this is predicated on reading the manual first - and understanding the material it contains. The manual is the only thing standing between a person being safe and a person having problems, potentially. A clear indication of the seriousness involved should be the amount of red ink S&W uses in the manual.

In the future, if there is any question about the operation of a firearm or understanding what the manual is talking about, ask the question here first. As the saying goes, there are no dumb questions. That applies double to firearms.

 

[GrayGhost99]

As someone who sells guns, you would not believe the number of people who give you an argument when trying to explain the moon clip need. Or will flat out argue that no my buddy never uses them and he has no problems.
I don't argue with people anymore. I ask if they have any questions about how to safely fire rimless cartridges in the revolver or how to load and unload moon clips. And if they say they do I explain. If not they'll learn.
The best was they other day when a mall ninja walked past as my customer was asking how to load his 9mm clips.
"Hey buddy, those are MAGAZINES" he said slowly.
The guy threw one at his head and said "no, clip" just as slowly

 

[Wise_A]

As someone who sells guns, you would not believe the number of people who give you an argument when trying to explain the moon clip need.

As someone who spends a lot of time working with shooters new and old, I absolutely would!

 

[NJM15]

Nothing to do with the post but FYI

I have a 929 always used the moons bought 10 more and use them as loaders only thing I don't like is removing the spent shells from the clips problem solved, got an extractor from cheaper than and makes it easy to unload the brass. will send pic when I have a chance to take one

 

[Cakley]

How old are you? All pistol cartridges that are not Auto or Revolver specific need special treatment. A round that is an Auto Loading Pistol round needs the clips to work in a revolver, (Just as they did in 1917) A round that is a revolver Round (which by it's nature is a rimmed round) does not need the clips. But clips may be used with those revolver rounds that are adapted for them. These are things we learn about when look at a gun and consider buying it. If you do not know how to operate your gun or the little nuances of it , ... you are a hazard to yourself and others near you.

I only say this after shooting guns of all kinds from muzzleloaders to full auto for 54 years Learn your craft.

I did hesitate to not use the moon clips. Looked in the manual and it didn't clearly mention 9mm must use moon clips. It did specifically mention .45acp. Looked a few times through the generic revolver manual. I did notice the warnings not rimless. I just failed to know what rimless actually was. I'm not an expert like many of you'll. But, I have been and done much more with guns than most people. I'm near 40 and my dad is in his late 60s. He said he would had just loaded up the gun without the clips. Doubt he has ever read a gun owners manual.

As I said above; I'd hope that Smith take the effort to add a simple warning sticker on the revolver or at least be more detailed in the owners manual.

Thankfully my stupid mistake(s), didn't result in injury.

 

[Cakley]

Everyone (self included) makes mistakes. In this case, the biggest mistake was in not reading and comprehending the manual first before firing the weapon, especially since both the weapon and apparently the cartridge were new for the user.

This initial mistake caused the mistake of not using the moon clips and was compounded by cheap ammo and the attempted repair of a firearm by someone untrained in firearm repair.

I hope something has been learned from these series of mistakes, but from what was said about reading the manual section on moon clips and rimless cartridges, I'm not sure the learning curve is over yet. The manual does talk specifically about the 45 acp, but it also states other rimless cartridges require the use of moon clips and the fact that the revolver came with moon clips, should have been clear indication of their need. Again, this is predicated on reading the manual first - and understanding the material it contains. The manual is the only thing standing between a person being safe and a person having problems, potentially. A clear indication of the seriousness involved should be the amount of red ink S&W uses in the manual.

In the future, if there is any question about the operation of a firearm or understanding what the manual is talking about, ask the question here first. As the saying goes, there are no dumb questions. That applies double to firearms.

Very well said. I agree 200%.

Look at it this way: most guns are later transferred (sold or traded) that don't include the owners manual or accessories. The subsequent owner would probably look at the barrel stamp for the ammo required. 9mm stamped on the barrel would result in 9mm ammo being used without adapters.

 

[sw282]

Federal had the answer for ''moonies'' with their 9MM Rimmed ammo...

Problem solved til someone put a 9mm R Federal in a 38 S&W revolver..

Fit great..0nly problem was 9mm pressure is 3 times old 38 S&W...

Federal 9mm Rimmed disappeared faster than $2 a box 22s..

 

[Muss Muggins]

For anyone interested, the last paragraph on page 11 of the Safety and Instruction manual specifically states that moon clips must be used with rimless cartridges in all S&W revolvers, except the Model 547.

Been waiting for somebody to bring this up. The next paragraph discusses not using .45 Auto Rim cases in the Governor. This may have been avoided by a full read of the manual. Those who have been shooting for many years should already know the vagaries of rimless cartridges in revolvers, but from the OP's various comments, I'm not sure that he understands that the 9mm is a rimless cartridge, thus he may have read and disregarded this paragraph. Regardless, before you place a bunch of tiny striker ignited bombs in a small machine in your hands and ignite those bombs one after the other, it is imperative that you understand exactly what's going on in there, and since the S&W manuals are available online, there is no excuse for not reading it . . .

 

[Boudiepitbull]

I'd hope that Smith take the effort to add a simple warning sticker on the revolver or at least be more detailed in the owners manual.

Thankfully my stupid mistake(s), didn't result in injury.

I'll predict right now if it ever happens that it won't be a mere warning sticker, once the big brains in the legal department are finished, it'll end up being stamped onto the side of each revolver and people will complain worse about it than they do the current Internal Lock.