S&W J Frame Trigger Job

[socalDDS]

Hey everybody! I recently did a ceramic stone polishing and installed an Apex Tactical Duty/ Carry Trigger Kit on my S&W Model 642-2 J frame. I had some interesting results that I would like to share with all of you. First, I would like to disclose that I do not have any financial interest in the Apex company, nor do I work for them. I am simply a dentist that likes to learn basic gun smithing, and I enjoy it as a hobby. First, I began by recording an average trigger pull in pounds on my factory Model 642, using the RCBS Military Trigger Pull Gauge. (This gauge records above 12 lbs. of pull). I took 10 trigger pull records and got an average trigger pull of 13.11 lbs. Then, I did a complete ceramic stone polishing of all the moving internal parts that contacted each other, as well as the areas where they contacted the frame (example: rebound slide, etc.). Note: if you have a model other than the 642 that has a hammer, NEVER STONE THE SINGLE ACTION SEAR!!! The metal on that part is only .004 " of thickness. If you reduce that, you can make the gun EXTREMELY UNSAFE! I reassembled everything, then recorded another 10 pulls using the same trigger pull gauge. The trigger pull average was now 11.3 lbs of pull, just from the stone polishing!!! I took it to the range and fired 200 rounds of Blazer Brass and 50 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense through it without any misfires! I came home from the range and installed the Apex Trigger Kit. Once again, I reassembled the gun, recorded 10 more trigger pulls, and now the average trigger pull measurement was 8.9 lbs of pull!!! The next day, I went back to the range and put 200 rounds of Blazer Brass, 50 rounds of some old wad cutters I had, 50 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense, and 50 rounds of PMC "Silver" eRange ammo through it. I only had 1 misfire from one of the old wad cutters. I know some people use the Wolf Spring Kit, (which I'm sure is also an awesome system to use) however, I just chose to try the Apex system. Overall, I'm very happy with the results, and I feel quite confident to use this 642 as my every day carry. I look forward to your comments and critiques from this post, I had a lot of fun doing and sharing this project with all of you. Stay safe everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[crazyphil]

Have you read "Light Trigger Pull Liability" at the Concealed Carry and
Self Defense forum by Ayoob? He recommends your DA revolver trigger
not be lighter than factory specs. I don't know if 8.9 lbs is lighter than
factory specs or not, but perhaps it is something to consider. Personally,
when I get a trigger/action job I tell the smith I want it smoother, not
lighter. Please don't take my comments as criticism. I merely wanted
to remind you of the "Light Trigger Pull Liability".

 

[scooter123]

I would suggest that you try some Remington UMC before committing 100% on that mainspirng. I use stainless steel pins in my Thumlers Tumbler to clean my brass and Remington brass is the only brand I've found that doesn't require my reaming the flash holes to 0.082 inch to keep pins occasionally getting stuck in the flash holes. So anytime I want a fresh lot of brass to reload with I pick up one of those 250 packs or 350 round buckets when they are on sale. About 2 years ago I noticed misfire problems with Remington UMC ammo and I suspect that it's due to Remington changing to a different primer, perhaps a Non Toxic or similar type of compound. As a result I've now re-turned the triggers on all of my K, L, and N frame revolvers from a DA pull of 8 lbs to 9 lbs. BTW, don't own any J frame but the model 60 does keep tempting me.

Anyhow, just a heads up, Remington UMC is now the hardest primer I've encountered in commercial loads and in reloading the hardest handgun primer I use is the CCI Magnum 550 which is about equal to the Remington in terms of hardness. Note, with my revolvers running at 8 lbs. I could not see any difference between Federal or CCI 500 standard pressure primers, they all worked with 100% reliability. So, consider this a heads up so that you can either avoid Remington ammunition or do a bit more tuning if needed. BTW, I would expect that the installation of a simple washer or two if the correct diameter and thickness could be used to do a bit of fine tuning in the spring tension on your J frame revolvers.

 

[scooter123]

Crazyphil, there was a time spanning probably approaching 80-90 years when S&W ran their triggers a lot lighter than the 12-13 lbs. lawyered up triggers we see today, in fact my experience that 9 lbs. seems to be average for the P&R 357 Magnums I've come across. So I don't think a 9 lbs DA trigger is the least bit concerning except for misfire potentials.

I am also find Massad's concerns rather poorly thought out. Because factory trigger pulls on defensive pistols ranges from 4 lbs up to 13 or even 14 lbs. so what is "factory"? Is it 14 lbs., or is it 4 lbs.? BTW, I routinely carry a Ruger LC9S Pro and per my Lyman Digital the trigger pull in this pistol is 4.5 lbs..

 

[agtg]

I wonder, would just the springs from that kit benefit an older Model 36 that has the hammer with the built in pin?

 

[Blackshirt]

I did the same mods as the OP (except my gun is. 638 and I used a 15# rebound spring for better reset). It makes my J-Frame a far better gun and I've not had an FTF in over three years of frequent use.

 

[socalDDS]

Have you read "Light Trigger Pull Liability" at the Concealed Carry and
Self Defense forum by Ayoob? He recommends your DA revolver trigger
not be lighter than factory specs. I don't know if 8.9 lbs is lighter than
factory specs or not, but perhaps it is something to consider. Personally,
when I get a trigger/action job I tell the smith I want it smoother, not
lighter. Please don't take my comments as criticism. I merely wanted
to remind you of the "Light Trigger Pull Liability".

Very interesting point, I appreciate your input... I will definitely check it out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[socalDDS]

I would suggest that you try some Remington UMC before committing 100% on that mainspirng. I use stainless steel pins in my Thumlers Tumbler to clean my brass and Remington brass is the only brand I've found that doesn't require my reaming the flash holes to 0.082 inch to keep pins occasionally getting stuck in the flash holes. So anytime I want a fresh lot of brass to reload with I pick up one of those 250 packs or 350 round buckets when they are on sale. About 2 years ago I noticed misfire problems with Remington UMC ammo and I suspect that it's due to Remington changing to a different primer, perhaps a Non Toxic or similar type of compound. As a result I've now re-turned the triggers on all of my K, L, and N frame revolvers from a DA pull of 8 lbs to 9 lbs. BTW, don't own any J frame but the model 60 does keep tempting me.

Anyhow, just a heads up, Remington UMC is now the hardest primer I've encountered in commercial loads and in reloading the hardest handgun primer I use is the CCI Magnum 550 which is about equal to the Remington in terms of hardness. Note, with my revolvers running at 8 lbs. I could not see any difference between Federal or CCI 500 standard pressure primers, they all worked with 100% reliability. So, consider this a heads up so that you can either avoid Remington ammunition or do a bit more tuning if needed. BTW, I would expect that the installation of a simple washer or two if the correct diameter and thickness could be used to do a bit of fine tuning in the spring tension on your J frame revolvers.

Thank you for that! The range I go to has that UMC ammo you're talking about... I'll put some of that through it next time I go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[socalDDS]

I did the same mods as the OP (except my gun is. 638 and I used a 15# rebound spring for better reset). It makes my J-Frame a far better gun and I've not had an FTF in over three years of frequent use.

I will keep good notes on my 642 in the future, and report back from time to time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[socalDDS]

I wonder, would just the springs from that kit benefit an older Model 36 that has the hammer with the built in pin?

Not sure, but I would definitely try it... Like I posted, I'm happy with mine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jim Watson]

I wonder, would just the springs from that kit benefit an older Model 36 that has the hammer with the built in pin?

It would reduce the trigger pull.
Whether it would fire the harder brands of primer, you would just have to determine by shooting.

I am leery of "spring engineering". The guns have strong factory springs to be sure of firing if the primer is hard or if the gun has rough fit and crooked camming surfaces. A real "trigger job" should include reducing friction in proportion to the reduction in spring force. An "action job" should include checking and refining camming function.

I have one J Smith with "trigger job" including reduced springs that is reliable with all ammo. I have another, not honed, that demands a full strength mainspring. Not a problem, it is an older gun, pretty good ex works.

 

[Blackshirt]

Conventional wisdom back in the day said that S&W DA triggers were 12#.
My 638 was over 14# when new...not at all conducive to even combat accuracy. The Apex kit incorporates a 1/2# lighter mainspring, but the reduction in spring pressure is offset by the Apex firing pin and reduced power firing pin spring. I believe this balanced arrangement is how the Apex kit avoids light strike issues.

The rebound spring has little to contribute to the DA pull, but can really help your SA and enhance general smoothness. However, if the spring is too light the reset suffers...I like 15# rebound springs (I think the stockers are 18#). My M638 is just over 9# on DA, just under 3# on SA...and remarkably smooth.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I wouldn't consider an 8.9lb pull to be too light. I think that would be ok so long as you get reliable ignition with your self defense rounds.

I am also find Massad's concerns rather poorly thought out. Because factory trigger pulls on defensive pistols ranges from 4 lbs up to 13 or even 14 lbs. so what is "factory"? Is it 14 lbs., or is it 4 lbs.? BTW, I routinely carry a Ruger LC9S Pro and per my Lyman Digital the trigger pull in this pistol is 4.5 lbs..

It would help if you actually read Ayoob's writings. It's based on what the manufacturer defines as acceptable for a particular model.

 

[socalDDS]

I wouldn't consider an 8.9lb pull to be too light. I think that would be ok so long as you get reliable ignition with your self defense rounds.







It would help if you actually read Ayoob's writings. It's based on what the manufacturer defines as acceptable for a particular model.

Thank you for your input... I have found 8.9 lbs on mine to be quite smooth and reliable thus far!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk