Sig p220 38 super

[Tmnguuyen]

Happy Sunday,
I saw a P220 38 super at a LGS on consignment this summer after a few weeks of going back and forth with shop I could not finalize the deal with them. But the itch has been resolved. After lurking around a well know forum in CA, I ended up with 2. One of them is the BDA import which I understand is very limited quantity. The gun are in awesome conditions. I expect they will outshoot my vintage post war colt 38 super.
The acquisition was not simple and cost effective either, plane tickets for the purchase, the guns were not local to me. road trip after 10 days for pick up but I think it is all worth it.
Enjoy.

 

[Tmnguuyen]

Slide comparison

The BDA slide is particular nice, hi polish and contoured front nose (dolphin nose). The magazines are scarce and expensive.
Thanks and enjoy

 

[Frank237]

The Browning BDA's in .38 Super...QUITE rare. VERY nice find!

Congrat's.

 

[Arik]

Gotta give you credit, that's definitely persistence and dedication.

I don't know of any gun I'd be willing to drive 30 min for let alone spend money on plane tickets

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[SPEEDGUNNER]

Very interesting pair of pistols. I did not know that SIG made a .38 Super variation of the P220. You'll have to let us know how they shoot. Or are they just for looking at?

 

[Tmnguuyen]

Very interesting pair of pistols. I did not know that SIG made a .38 Super variation of the P220. You'll have to let us know how they shoot. Or are they just for looking at?

I'll definitely will shoot them because I need to verify what's all the hypes about 38 super is. My first impression with my vintage colt 1911 was not all that satisfying. There are a few reasons for that 1) the ammo was not the 1300fps that the super wants, 2) the barrel on the old colt design was inherently inaccurate, 3) the shooter not familiar with the arch grip on the 1911a1.
I'll be sure to post results once I get a chance to get to the range.
Thanks

 

[DWalt]

I'll definitely will shoot them because I need to verify what's all the hypes about 38 super is. My first impression with my vintage colt 1911 was not all that satisfying. There are a few reasons for that 1) the ammo was not the 1300fps that the super wants, 2) the barrel on the old colt design was inherently inaccurate, 3) the shooter not familiar with the arch grip on the 1911a1.
I'll be sure to post results once I get a chance to get to the range.
Thanks

"1) the ammo was not the 1300fps that the super wants"

I don't quite understand that statement. You can load .38 Super about as hot or as mild as you want, but 1300 ft/sec is a little on the warm side for a .38 Super case in an unsupported barrel, such as your Government Model. Some do it, but I wouldn't. If you are looking for really stout loads you should use 9x23mm Winchester cases. I fire 124 grain FMJ bullet reloads in 9x23 cases in my M1911 (yes, a real WWI M1911 with .38 Super slide and barrel, and of course a very heavy slide spring) and get MVs over 1450 ft/sec. The 9x23 Win case is much heavier than .38 Super to withstand the 55Kpsi peak chamber pressures.

"3) the shooter not familiar with the arch grip on the 1911a1."
Simple fix - replace it with a flat mainspring housing.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have never actually seen a SIG in .38 super. I love the caliber and own 3 1911 platforms in .38 super, one is my regular carry gun.

 

[Grayfox]

I like the .38 Super and would love to have one of the rare P220s in that caliber. But the very few I've ever seen for sale were waaaaaaay over my budget.

Colt invented this fine round somewhere back around 1929, but then made the major mistake of headspacing it on the tiny rim. Accuracy was never very good. Then in the 1960s one of the custom barrel makers (Bar-Sto I think?) discovered accuracy greatly improved if you headspaced it on the case mouth like most other semi-auto cartridges.
In their typical fashion, hard headed Colt refused to acknowledge this and didn't make the change until the Series 80 pistols. Older Colt .38 Supers can greatly benefit from a barrel change.

1300fps is the standard published velocity for the Super. Actual velocities can be slightly less, but not as far off as many other rounds published data. Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore offer ammo that runs 1500+ fps. I've chronographed my own handloads at 1275-1280 fps from a 5" Government Model and never had any problems with them. My loads are actually slightly under the listed maximum in the loading manuals.

 

[Rock185]

Nice guns. I haven't needed plane tickets yet, but have driven some hours in pursuit of this or that object of my desire. Don't regret it one bit

 

[Arik]

[
"3) the shooter not familiar with the arch grip on the 1911a1."
Simple fix - replace it with a flat mainspring housing.

And doesn't the Sig technically have an arched grip also?

How inaccurate was the 1911? I can't imagine it being that bad unless it was completely shot out or the expectation was all bullets in the same hole. And ammo varies. Either buy the one you need or load the way you want. The 150gr are around 1000 - 1100fps. 90gr can be up to 1600fps

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[Brian in Oregon]

Lucky dog, that's a nice score.

I wanted a P220 38 Super many years ago, but got too picky. Wanted the so-called "American" version, which simply meant it had the side button mag release, not a heel release. I should have grabbed the heel release version like your wood gripped gun when I had the chance. Not interested in the earlier BDA version. Never cared for the slide contour on them.

I wish SIG would make a run of P220s in 38 Super. Until then, a nice used one is still on my bucket list.

 

[Texas Star]

My prewar Colt .38 Super Match, fixed sights, was a very well made gun, very slick honed action. But wouldn't shoot for sour grapes. You could stay on a man's chest at 25 yards, but hitting a jackrabbit was iffy. My .45's shot groups that I coudl cover with the palm of my hand. The Gold Cup would put all seven into one ragged hole.

I traded the .38 Super off, I think for a six-inch M-27 .357.

I have a pal who owned a SIG .38 Super. It shot very well, indeed. Obviously, SIG implemented the headspacing change before Colt did, or about the same time, 1980's.

I've given up on the .38 Super. Factory ammo has backed off the original specs and is just another 9mm, with less selection in bullet types. (I don't reload.) Today, if you want a gun like that, the .357 SIG is the answer.

 

[snoopdawg45]

I have a P220 in 38 super and it is one the most accurate pistols I have ever held. Everyone that shoots, want to buy it. You will be very surprised and very pleased with it.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

.... Today, if you want a gun like that, the .357 SIG is the answer.

I have a P226 in 357 SIG. Still want a P220 in 38 Super.

 

[DWalt]

"1300fps is the standard published velocity for the Super."

For the typical 130 grain bullet, the factory load, the MV is given as anywhere between 1100 to slightly over 1200 depending upon who the maker is. The exception would be the Boutique makers such as Cor-Bon and Bullalo Bore loads using lighter and faster bullets. In my Colt with 5" barrel, I have found that standard Remington and Winchester .38 Super 130 grain loads clock between 1150-1175 ft/sec. It's no real trick to handload the .38 Super to higher velocities, but I wouldn't do it in a Colt barrel. I have an EAA Witness in .38 Super (4.5") with better chamber support that I wouldn't have any hesitation to use heavier loads in. But if you really want to go hot, use 9x23 Win brass. I have also used the Starline 9mm Supercomp cases for hot loads. The Starline people have told me that they will handle the high pressures of 9x23 loads without case failure, but they are definitely not as heavy as the 9x23 cases. My standard 9x23 load is 8.7 grains of AA#5 with a 124 grain bullet. It runs 1450+ in the 5" Colt barrel, and around 1380-1400 in the EAA Witness. I have absolutely no problem in using 9x23 cases (or 9mm Supercomp cases) in the Colt and Witness pistols, despite the fact they are rimless, not semi-rimmed like the .38 Super case. But you'd better get heavy recoil springs.

 

[Tmnguuyen]

"And doesn't the Sig technically have an arched grip also?

How inaccurate was the 1911? I can't imagine it being that bad unless it was completely shot out or the expectation was all bullets in the same hole. And ammo varies. Either buy the one you need or load the way you want. The 150gr are around 1000 - 1100fps. 90gr can be up to 1600fps"

Good observation. May be it is the short trigger. But that may not be it either because i was doing quite well with the 38 spl converted from a 38 super. It has to be the ammo and barrel design. That's it that's the ticket.

The 38 super is on top
The converted 38 WC is at the bottom.

Thanks

 

[Tmnguuyen]

38 super - 38 special

38 special WC midrange 1911 = fun fun fun

 

[Tmnguuyen]

"1300fps is the standard published velocity for the Super."

"For the typical 130 grain bullet, the factory load, the MV is given as anywhere between 1100 to slightly over 1200 depending upon who the maker is. The exception would be the Boutique makers such as Cor-Bon and Bullalo Bore loads using lighter and faster bullets. In my Colt with 5" barrel, I have found that standard Remington and Winchester .38 Super 130 grain loads clock between 1150-1175 ft/sec. It's no real trick to handload the .38 Super to higher velocities, but I wouldn't do it in a Colt barrel. I have an EAA Witness in .38 Super (4.5") with better chamber support that I wouldn't have any hesitation to use heavier loads in. But if you really want to go hot, use 9x23 Win brass. I have also used the Starline 9mm Supercomp cases for hot loads. The Starline people have told me that they will handle the high pressures of 9x23 loads without case failure, but they are definitely not as heavy as the 9x23 cases. My standard 9x23 load is 8.7 grains of AA#5 with a 124 grain bullet. It runs 1450+ in the 5" Colt barrel, and around 1380-1400 in the EAA Witness. I have absolutely no problem in using 9x23 cases (or 9mm Supercomp cases) in the Colt and Witness pistols, despite the fact they are rimless, not semi-rimmed like the .38 Super case. But you'd better get heavy recoil springs."

Attached is what I have in inventory. Please let me know which is good with which gun. I think the sig will be fine. Caution may be warranted with the old Colt.

The Armscor was what I used on the Colt during my last outing.
Thanks

 

[31FordA]

Those are a nice pair of Sigs. I would like to get a P220 in .38 Super, but I haven't seen one in years. The .38 Super is a good cartridge, I had a RIA 1911 in .38 Super for several years. I also had a P229 in .357 Sig for a while. It was the most accurate pistol I have ever owned. Wherever you put the front sight is where the bullet went. I only sold it because it was getting very expensive to feed when I could even find the ammo. I figure a P220 in .38 Super would be a good compromise.

I spoke with a Sig rep at the NRA show a couple of years ago and asked if there was a chance of more .38 Supers. He said they planned to release the P220 in .38 Super and 10MM. The 10MM has come out, but no .38 Super.