Collecting handguns in Australia

[Joe in SC]

Mike, Thanks a lot for the information. No doubt about it, you are a "dyed in the wool" gun person. I can't imagine having to go through all the red tape and expense just to own a firearm. I admire your tenacity and desire to pursue your sport. Man, you definitely have "passion" for guns.

One quick question, has all the restrictions on gun ownership had any effect at lowering crime in your nation?

 

[European]

Hello, I've just found this thread and although it's a couple of weeks old I'd like to comment.

First of all, thank you very much, Aussie, for the  comprehensive description of the gun law in your country. It looks similar to the situation in some European countries. I knew about your caliber and magazine capacity restrictions .38/9mm and 10 rounds respectively) because I read somewhere that your IPSC shooters are now "handicapped" in international competitions. 

Some months ago, after buying a PP and a PPK, I posted in the Walther forum some information about the situation in Europe and more specifically in Belgium. Considering that I own four S&W revolvers (2 inches 36, 3 inches 36, 4 inches 15 and 4 inches 19) I think I can reproduce that text here, with only some minor editing and a few addition. I understand that some readers will consider that European gun owners, including myself, are far too soft but before making harsh comments please bear in mind that the political situation in this continent is hardly comparable to the one in the US.          

The European Union (EU) is a political structure similar to a federal government. EU laws on firearms are reasonable, at least in the political context of this part of the world. In a nutshell, under the relevant EU Directive (a Directive being probably similar to a US Federal Law), EU countries must ensure that a permit is required for the majority of handguns and semiautomatic long arms and must at least register other modern firearms (mainly non-semiautomatic rifles and shotguns). EU countries may, however, introduce more restrictive legislation, which is often the case, for instance by requiring a permit for all firearms or banning a certain types. The EU Directive does not lay down rules concerning carrying. It however facilitates considerably trade in firearms between EU countries. It also provides for a useful document called European firearms pass that enables mainly hunters and sport-shooters to transport their firearms across national borders (the UK being a sad exception).

The Czech Republic is probably the only EU country with a “shall issue” policy for concealed carry permits. The most common situation in the other countries is either a blanket ban on carrying or a very restrictive policy.

Until 2006, gun laws in Belgium were quite liberal, some people owned handguns just for home protection and it was difficult but not impossible to obtain a carry permit. In 2006, in the aftermath of a hideous racist murder committed with a legally-acquired rifle, a new firearms Act was passed. Under the new legislation, self-defense is still, at least in theory, a valid ground to own firearms but the authorities make a very narrow interpretation of the law and in fact I don’t know anybody who uses that ground when applying for a license. Some of the cops in my shooting club carry when they are off duty but they need to obtain a prior authorization from their superiors. Most law-abiding people over here use sport shooting, hunting and/or collecting as valid reasons to acquire firearms. As you can imagine, criminals don’t care much about the law. The general situation for legal gun owners in Belgium is still better than in other countries. For instance, there is no limitation here on the number of firearms that can be owned, although once you go beyond thirty the storage conditions are very strict.  

I understand that some Americans think that even Czech laws are too restrictive but in my opinion there’s some misleading information in the US about the situation in Europe. We have, of course, many more restrictions (mostly unnecessary and ineffective) than you do in the US and I’ll always fight them but, contrary to what I sometimes read in US forums and gun magazines, the average country here is not like the UK, which, by the way, is the exception, not the norm in Europe. In many Western/Central European countries, law-abiding citizens can have a wide range of firearms (including handguns) for sport-shooting, hunting and collecting purposes and, in some exceptional cases, for self-defense. The red tape involved, like joining a shooting club or passing a hunting exam, can be a deterrent for some people but I think the majority of the readers of this forum would go through it to be able to buy and use firearms. I’m definitely not praising the European gun laws – I’m just trying to give some information.

I wish we had something like the 2nd amendment in Europe. Here politicians can change firearms legislation without consideration for any constitutional right.

 

[S&W_aussie]

Hey again.. after a couple of people asked I thought I would bump this post up again. Nothing much has changed in the last few years. The laws are still as restrictive but at least have not got worse!

The guns through my collection have been updated bellow:

• 1972 Model 27-2 (6" barrel) .357 mag
• 1977 Model 28-2 Highway Patrolman (4" barrel) .357 Mag
• 1959 Model 28 4 screw Highway Patrolman (6" barrel) .357 Mag
• 1977 Model 29-2 Nickel Plated, presentation cased .44 mag (8 3/8" barrel)
• 1981 Model 29-2 Nickel Plated 44 Mag (8 3/8" barrel)
• 1994 Model 29-6 (6" barrel) .44 Magnum
• 1978 Model 66-1 .357 mag (6" barrel)
• 1966 Model 17-2 (K22) .22 Long Rifle
• 1941 "Victory" US PROPERTY GHD marked .38 Special (4' barrel)
• 1917 US Army Model .45 ACP (5" barrel) US PPOPERTY marked
• 1916 Second Model HE .455 (Australian Military Marked)
• 1960 Model 12 Airweight, flatlatch .38 Spec. (2" Barrel)
• 1972 Model 59 (14 round mag)
• 1991 Model 4006 .40 S&W
• 1849 Colt Pocket Pistol .31 cal
• 1861 Colt Navy .36 cal
• 1963 Colt Python (4" barrel)
• 1965 Colt Python (6" barrel)
• H&K USP Expert 9mm
• Sig Sauer (Euro) P220 .45 ACP
• 1910 Browning (cased with original cleaning gear and paperwork)
• 1851 Deane Adams & Deane .50 cal DAO cap and ball
• 1858 Beaumont Adams .45 cal, double action cap and ball.
• 1858 Remington New Army .44

 

[long colt frazier]

Sir you a a devoted collector. I wonder how many of us would be willing to put up with the bureaucracy involved or just give up the hobby.
Mark

 

[Bob L]

S&W_aussie,



What type of restrictions are there on forming a gun club. In other words, could you form a S&W Collectors club on your own land, build a range and shoot any time you want? Nice collections and thanks for sharing!

Sent from mTalk

 

[hoosierone]

Aussie, one of the reasons I moved from Illinois to Indiana was so I would not have to deal with the gun restrictions there.

It feels good every day to no longer be in Illinois. Food for thought, you're only 42.

 

[357magster]

We need to see a photo of those little beauties, mate!

I lived in Oz for a year ... great country (apart from the stringent gun laws). Used to go out to Kooralbyn and dodge the kangaroos on the golf course.

Have a Four X beer for me!

 

[paplinker]

In Australia are you allowed to buy outside of the country?

 

[Targets Guy]

Very nice collection. Well done.

 

[Cariboo Canuck]

Sir you a a devoted collector. I wonder how many of us would be willing to put up with the bureaucracy involved or just give up the hobby.
Mark

That I exactly what the antis are counting on. I know several Canadians who have given up owning handguns because of the bureaucracy involved in buying, selling, shipping, transport, etc.

However, when our abortive Long Gun Registry was in effect, tens of thousands said - "To hell with that!" and became instant "criminals".
The LGR was allegedly destroyed but there is evidence that the rcmp (note the lack of capitalization) has not destroyed the data bank.

Currently, AR15s are "restricted" which means they require registration like handguns. They can only be shot on an "approved range" and must be transported in a lockable case with trigger lock installed.

There is a version of the Blazer .22LR semi-auto pistol that resembles the AK-47. It is "prohibited" because it looks too much like it's CF big brother.

Ruger 10/22 after market magazines that hold 25 rds are similarly "prohibited devices" because they can fit the Ruger Challenger 10/22 pistol. Penalty for owning a "prohibited device" is 10 years.

All those souvenir Lugers, P-38s, Mauser Hsc's, Walther PPK/PPs, etc. are "prohibited" which is ironic as they are the weapons of an autocratic state we defeated in a war against tyranny.
Handguns in .25 ACP, .32 S&W and .32 ACP are likewise "prohibs'' as are handguns with barrels 4" or less. Makers like S&W, Ruger and others are making "Canadian" versions with barrels just over 4" which are classified as "restricted", not "prohibs".

Gun laws in general do not make sense not are they intended to do so. The "Prime Directive" is civil disarmament, one citizen, one gun, one calibre, one barrel length at a time.

America - we all envy your 2nd amendment and sincerely hope that you are ready to fight to retain it - unchanged!

 

[shouldazagged]

Bloody hell, Mike, it must have taken you about seventy-five years to acquire that many fine guns while riding a red-hot unicycle through towering stacks of weird regulations!

Cerainly a tribute to your determination and persistence.

 

[S&W_aussie]

We need to see a photo of those little beauties, mate!

I lived in Oz for a year ... great country (apart from the stringent gun laws). Used to go out to Kooralbyn and dodge the kangaroos on the golf course.

Have a Four X beer for me!

I have posted most of these before in other threads but here we go

2nd Model HE .455

Mixed bag

More mixed bag

28-2 with executioner grips

59 & 4006

41 in .22 short (now sold )

Custom 29-6 (ignore the red-dot.. its no longer on the revolver)

 

[Safestuffer]

Its easier to just play the game Im afraid...otherwise its "no guns for you"...lol

That's not what I've heard.
I've heard there are plenty of illegally owned guns down under in the hands of people who don't play the game.

Very nice collection by the way

 

[Pete from Perth]

Here in Illinois, the Mayor of Chicago is "Recommending" a $65 registration fee for every handgun. How distant are we from Australia???

It costs me $189 to add another pistol to my collectors Lic in Western Australia!

 

[Pete from Perth]

G'day Mike nice collection. It would appear your Laws are similar to West Australia, however I have a Glock 19 & a S&W 6906 on my collectors Lic which no question were asked when I put application in. Here is a list of my small collection, S&W mdl 10 3in rb S&W mdl 10 4in sb. S&W 640-1 2in. S&W mdl 60-7 2in rb. S&W mdl 36 2 in sb. S&W mdl 6906. Glock 19 gen2. 1957 Walther PPK 32acp. 1940 Walther Pp Swedish Police 32acp. 1960 Walther PP 22 rim fire. 1911 Colt 1908 vest pocket 25acp

 

[Mehutch]

S&W Aussie,
Good on ya mate... love the gun you have. I lived in Coogee Beach, NSW for 6 years (1985-'91), worked in Botany Bay as a Fireman/Paramedic at ICI.

I met many Aussies with gun collections while sampling their home brew. Best of times. One bloke had over 150 Winchester '93's in his gun room. When they passes the gun laws I thought of my friends collection and what happened to them.

I hated to leave, but things changed. I drove my 1972 VW van all over Australia, South to North, East to West. My kind of country. Never made it to Tassie, maybe another time.

Best to you, Hutch

Two Pythons...wow!

 

[rednichols]

Hey again.. after a couple of people asked I thought I would bump this post up again. Nothing much has changed in the last few years. The laws are still as restrictive but at least have not got worse!

The guns through my collection have been updated bellow:

• 1972 Model 27-2 (6" barrel) .357 mag
• 1977 Model 28-2 Highway Patrolman (4" barrel) .357 Mag
• 1959 Model 28 4 screw Highway Patrolman (6" barrel) .357 Mag
• 1977 Model 29-2 Nickel Plated, presentation cased .44 mag (8 3/8" barrel)
• 1981 Model 29-2 Nickel Plated 44 Mag (8 3/8" barrel)
• 1994 Model 29-6 (6" barrel) .44 Magnum
• 1978 Model 66-1 .357 mag (6" barrel)
• 1966 Model 17-2 (K22) .22 Long Rifle
• 1941 "Victory" US PROPERTY GHD marked .38 Special (4' barrel)
• 1917 US Army Model .45 ACP (5" barrel) US PPOPERTY marked
• 1916 Second Model HE .455 (Australian Military Marked)
• 1960 Model 12 Airweight, flatlatch .38 Spec. (2" Barrel)
• 1972 Model 59 (14 round mag)
• 1991 Model 4006 .40 S&W
• 1849 Colt Pocket Pistol .31 cal
• 1861 Colt Navy .36 cal
• 1963 Colt Python (4" barrel)
• 1965 Colt Python (6" barrel)
• H&K USP Expert 9mm
• Sig Sauer (Euro) P220 .45 ACP
• 1910 Browning (cased with original cleaning gear and paperwork)
• 1851 Deane Adams & Deane .50 cal DAO cap and ball
• 1858 Beaumont Adams .45 cal, double action cap and ball.
• 1858 Remington New Army .44

Several of those are classified as antique firearms and no license to possess here in Queensland anyway. Right now I'm sruggling to find a Colt SAA that qualifies. The age is the easy part. It also has to be in a caliber that is no longer commercially available! Fortunately I know which ones those are

You summarised our plight beautifully earlier in this thread. You left out, tho, that any misunderstandings with the local constabulary even unrelated to your firearms license, and they send in a SWAT team to take the license and the guns and the ammo. You did know that, right?

 

[S&W_aussie]

Haha that's right Red... best not to get on the wrong side of the local boys in blue.

Yeah, the Remington new Army, Adams revolves and old cap and ball Colts are easy The big problem I find is that I know the law.... and you know the law .... but finding a LGS that knows the law regarding antiques is near impossible.. they all want to argue the toss when I have been lucky enough to find even muzzleloading long guns hahah .. they all want to do form 10's and get PTA's!

 

[dmar]

S&W Aussie and Pete, I'm curious, over time, how have all these regulations affected gun values over there?

 

[petepeterson]

Haha that's right Red... best not to get on the wrong side of the local boys in blue.

Yeah, the Remington new Army, Adams revolves and old cap and ball Colts are easy The big problem I find is that I know the law.... and you know the law .... but finding a LGS that knows the law regarding antiques is near impossible.. they all want to argue the toss when I have been lucky enough to find even muzzleloading long guns hahah .. they all want to do form 10's and get PTA's!

And I gripe when the state Insta-check is down...yeesh! Shame on me.