Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?

[leedesert]

The advice that a few others and I give is that after the initial clean, inspect, lube, is to fire between 250 - 500 rounds through your stock, fully furnished, AR-16, as it came out of the box. If you have an optics model or one that requires you to mount a front sight, mount whatever you need to aim the rifle. Why do I give this advice?

First, most people assume that a defect in a rifle is going to be something easy for the unitiated to remedy on their own. Some assume that everyone has enough mechanical aptitude to safely work on their firearm beyond a basic field strip. If someone recognizes that they don't know what they're doing, then a factory warranty / lifetime service policy is a godsend.

Second, what if it's a material defect in the rifle that isn't remedied by installing a cheap part? What if the upper receiver's barrel seating notch is slightly out of spec, throwing off the barrel, which then throws off the mating between the locking lugs on the bolt to the chamber lugs that causes intermittent issues? What if there was a flaw in the gas port which causes an intermittent issue? What if the rifle wasn't properly head spaced? What if the barrel's chamber has a burr in it, was reamed slightly off, etc. I've seen some odd-ball issues pop up from time to time with AR-15's that aren't easily remedied by a novice to intermediate enthusiast.

Third, say you take your factory fresh AR-15 out of the box. The AR-15 disease has already hit you. Before you hit the range, you ditch the A2 front sight post for a low pro gas block. You ditch delta ring and standard two piece drop in hand guard for a free float with a proprietary barrel nut. Might as well replace the trigger and install KNS anti-rotation pins. Pop in a heavier buffer because you've read posts and seen "the ejection chart" online. Find a NiBx BCG for $75? Install that too. You then take your decked out AR-15 to the range, where everyone has an AR-15 and they all basically look the same. You fire rounds. You start to have issues. Be it the 1st round or the 500th. Can't be! What went wrong? You've changed out enough to possibly affect the proper operation of your rifle. Time to put it all back to stock form so you can send it in. How hard was it to pound out those reverse taper front sight block pins?

I know this was for someone else but I feel like you read my mind. I did about everything you mentioned to my MOE mid length and it is perfect for me now and shoots great after 500+rounds. I also added the Larue 3.5T trigger kit and the break is so much sweeter now.

 

[vonn]

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

 

[Mark IV]

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

I can't say exactly, but I know my carbine is noticably heavier and unwieldy after mounting just a little 2-7x scope and mount.
In fact I'm currently waffling between mounting this scope again on this latest rifle, or leaving it as is.
I love having the useful features of the scope, but I just hate how it makes the rifle feel so much less nimble.
It's surprising how such a relatively light,small package (scope and mount) can have such a noticable effect.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

Depends on what it is. Say a guy wants to install a free float handguard.

A2 front sight vs low profile gas and MBUS. Probably lighter.

A lot of slim free float handguards are under 10oz these days. A few ounce heavier than than standard handgaurd.

If a guy mounted something like a Vortex Strikefire on a Sport versus the Sport with the above changes and a Microdot it'd probably be close to a wash.

If a guy installs a 14.5in or lightweight profile barrel it would be lighter.

Some stocks weight an ounce or two lighter.

Depends....

 

[leedesert]

I know the mid length MOE hand guard is 12.13 oz. The A2 front sight averages around 6-7oz.
Total = 19oz best case scenario.

My change.
MI G3 12" Mlok handguard. 9.4oz
Low Pro gas block 3 oz
Magpul MBUS sight 1.2 oz

Total = 13.6 oz

Total saved = 5.4oz

Doesn't sound like much but remember that weight is suspended toward the front of the gun so after a long day of shooting it adds up.

Also, my surefire G2X light I have mounted on this rifle weighs 4.4 oz so its lighter overall with the light than it was before without the light.

 

[Flash_80]

Doesn't take long to get fat. My Leatherwood CMR4 on a PEPR mount is currently off the gun sitting on a shelf, and I'd swear it doubles as a boat anchor.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

I would really be interested in how much most of these AR's weigh? Stock and modified.

S&W says their Sport II weighs 103.2 oz, which is 5.45 lbs. I don't know if they are including the magazine in that figure. Most rifle manufacturers do not include the mag in their weight figure.

My Sport II has:

Magpul CTR buttstock;
Magpul MLOK forend;
Magpul MLOK Quick detach sling adapter on the forend;
SIG drum rear sight on a 1/2" Picatinny riser base;
EOTech 552 on a Yankee Hill cowitness riser;
Magpul 20 round PMAG (no ammo)

Total weight is exactly 8.0 lbs.

Interestingly, my Remington R-15 18" predator carbine with a free float tube weighs 6-3/4 lb empty (one lb more than the Sport II) but weighs exactly the same dressed up, 8.0 lbs, with a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x on an ARMS riser base, rings and with a 20 round PMAG.

Now if anyone wants to complain about weight.....

....this weighs 15 lbs as you see it. Obviously I don't shoot it offhand.

 

[stwings]

For the same reason people will buy a Ford Focus and then try and make it a Mustang.

 

[Flash_80]

Buy a Sport and change it up. Or build one from the ground up with the least expensive upper/lower/barrel. Its all a starting point. Is there a rule that says you must spend $$$$ on something? If you buy that LS model Silverado and put $1500 worth of rims on it, do you expect someone to tell you that you should have just bought the LTZ to begin with?

 

[cyphertext]

Buy a Sport and change it up. Or build one from the ground up with the least expensive upper/lower/barrel. Its all a starting point. Is there a rule that says you must spend $$$$ on something? If you buy that LS model Silverado and put $1500 worth of rims on it, do you expect someone to tell you that you should have just bought the LTZ to begin with?

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

 

[Disabled1]

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

I agree. But then, where would the fun factor be if you just buy it like you want it VS changing everything out?

 

[leedesert]

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

A rifle that's configured the way you wanted from the start will cost more than if you build it yourself. Also, unlike a $40,000 truck, you can always just buy another AR15 since you can configure them for different missions.

 

[cyphertext]

I agree. But then, where would the fun factor be if you just buy it like you want it VS changing everything out?

Depends on your idea of fun, I guess. Some guys like to work on cars... me, I want to just put gas in it and drive.

 

[cyphertext]

A rifle that's configured the way you wanted from the start will cost more than if you build it yourself. Also, unlike a $40,000 truck, you can always just buy another AR15 since you can configure them for different missions.

No, not always, and especially with where prices are today. I would need to see a cost analysis to show that I could build it for less. Most folks forget to account for their time and tools when making that statement.

 

[Pro2nd]

No, not always, and especially with where prices are today. I would need to see a cost analysis to show that I could build it for less. Most folks forget to account for their time and tools when making that statement.

I do hear and understand that.. for SOME people..

But for others, that is relaxation/fun time..

And when it comes to figuring in the cost of tools,
Once someone has either saved or earned the amount of money that they spent on their tools, that is a total wash..

For example.. if I figured in how many times I used my 265 piece socket set every time I did a job.
that $200 set, would now be worth thousands.. LOL

 

[cyphertext]

I do hear and understand that.. for SOME people..

But for others, that is relaxation/fun time..

And when it comes to figuring in the cost of tools,
Once someone has either saved or earned the amount of money that they spent on their tools, that is a total wash..

For example.. if I figured in how many times I used my 265 piece socket set every time I did a job.
that $200 set, would now be worth thousands.. LOL

I get that, but if you buy a $85 armorers wrench and build one rifle, that $85 is a cost of building the rifle. If the rifle you built ends up costing $75 less than one off the shelf in the same config, in reality you spent $10 more PLUS your time. Even if it is relaxation/fun to you, that time has a value.

I was mainly commenting on the car analogy though. If you buy a truck and all you are going to do is put fancy wheels on it, that is the equivalent of buying a Sport and changing the furniture... no big deal, not a lot involved.

But if you are going to buy a Sport and try to turn it into a VTAC II rifle, might as well be making a 4 wheel drive out of a 2 wheel drive.

And just for the record, my son is a high school kid... his truck is not a $40,000 truck... it's a 2003 model

 

[Flash_80]

Well, if we are going to use car analogies, my son has a Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner... basically a two wheel drive with the same suspension set up as the four wheel drive. We could buy all the parts, or get them from a donor truck to make his a four wheel drive, but it sure would be easier to just buy a four wheel drive if that is what we really want.

Same with the Sport... You can change barrels, swap BCG, change to a low profile gas block, free float the barrel, ad nauseum... but at some point, you would be better off just buying a rifle configured in the style you wanted from the beginning.

Full 4WD front end swap out is a little different ballpark than just slapping a rail and a trigger on an AR I think. Thats a pretty extreme undertaking.

 

[Flash_80]

Anyone buying a Sport II and then dumping an extra $1000 in it, well thats their money and problem. Me, I'd consider that stupid as all get out. But buying a Sport as a base and swapping the plug and play items - trigger, rail, stock, grip - well thats to be expected. Because you can spend more on something and then change out the same stuff again and that $1200 rifle is now even more expensive.

That last AR I got was like $1200. I've since changed the stock, grip, and added a Daniel Defense drop in rail to it. Could I have paid about the same and got something better up front - well, not in April of 2013 I couldn't.

But as for the Sport II just bought, I added a free float rail to it and bought an MBUS front sight. Gun $525, rail $175, Sight $28. I'm not buying something else I want for that price. As for adding an optic, you're doing that to anything else you buy. And grip/stock/trigger - whatever else you buy probably isn't coming with the higher end rifle.

 

[Flash_80]

And I also agree, should have got that 4wd up front. Prerunner is just Mall Rated.

 

[WVSig]

Anyone buying a Sport II and then dumping an extra $1000 in it, well thats their money and problem. Me, I'd consider that stupid as all get out. But buying a Sport as a base and swapping the plug and play items - trigger, rail, stock, grip - well thats to be expected. Because you can spend more on something and then change out the same stuff again and that $1200 rifle is now even more expensive.

That last AR I got was like $1200. I've since changed the stock, grip, and added a Daniel Defense drop in rail to it. Could I have paid about the same and got something better up front - well, not in April of 2013 I couldn't.

But as for the Sport II just bought, I added a free float rail to it and bought an MBUS front sight. Gun $525, rail $175, Sight $28. I'm not buying something else I want for that price. As for adding an optic, you're doing that to anything else you buy. And grip/stock/trigger - whatever else you buy probably isn't coming with the higher end rifle.

I feel you on that type of purchase but I think that there might be better deals like this.

$509 shipped to your FFL + a $25 gift card at Brownells which you can use to buy your stock, rail of choice and sight set.

You now have a mid length carbine with an excellent spec that for me would work better.

As I have said many times for me if I wanted a truck gun I would look at the S&W Sport II. Throw a used Aimpoint Pro and a LaRue trigger in it and call it a day. Perfectly serviceable carbine for under $900 with a duty ready/combact ready optic and a great trigger that I don't have to worry about bouncing around in the trunk.