Mags for M -1 carbine

[Dave Haynes]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The magazine loaders were developed to accommodate the 30 rd M2 mags...3-10s and it is full. I don't know if there ever was any loaders or bandoleers designed for the 15 rd mags, the ammunition came in 50 rd boxes. I too doubt that the 15s were designed for single use, but they made many millions of them, huge boxes all wrapped in wax paper. They were dirt cheap until they were gone.... If someone knows when the bandoleer tool and strippers came out that might help.
If there was one area of the carbine that could stand a design redo it would be the magazine system. But the manufacturers were trying to keep the weight under 6 lb and more parts meant more weight.

 

[Matt_X]

If someone knows when the bandoleer tool and strippers came out that might help.

Come on over and join the discussion

Carbine Clips! - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

2025-BDan’s Notes:Clips, Cartridge, Carbine April 1945 the Army Service Forces of the Ordnance Department...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

As Sgt Mize relates in this interview, he only learned about the clips the hard way (when he gets to the BAR gunner, time mark 5:50 in the you tube video). Another example of the breakdown in training and communication during this time period. This breakdown probably contributed to people to jumping to conclusions based on the limited information and knowledge they had. S.L.A. Marshall did not help the situation as we now know that he made up some of his interviews to promote his own theories.

 

[Dave Haynes]

So many of the carbines are different in so many ways. It depended upon who made them. In the case of Inland, when the pressure was really on, Inland petitioned the govt to allow parts with slight problems but still worked well to use these parts. I've seen late 44 barrels that have rifling that looks like a .45 barrel, shallow rifling unlike the usual rifling you'd see on a Winchester or Underwood, hand guards that only show enough sight to barely make them work. Rockola went through their rejected parts stash and recovered and used a huge amount of them. Bent barrels were straightened by experts from Springfield and used. When you are making 1,000 a day, everything helps.
I think that may explain the accuracy potential of individual guns. Larry Ruth considers NPM to be the best guns and they seem to have a little edge on quality. Underwood seemed to make the best barrels, Buffalo Arms the worst. So it went. Winchester, Inland, Underwood, IBM, Buffalo Arms, Rockola and a few Marlins, were the barrel makers, everyone else used what they could get through the free issue program. NPM in late production used a lot of IBM barrels. So one carbine could be a tack driver and the next not so good.

 

[Matt_X]

Whatever problems there were during production, every one had to meet the production standards before acceptance.
The 5" group mentioned by Ellis Lenze on page 188 of War Baby! seems to have been the requirement.
The CCC is looking to crowd source accuracy of carbines with BA barrels

Buffalo Arms barrel quality - The Carbine Collector's Club

I just heard/read that the m1 carbine community does not like buffalo arms barrels. I am in the process...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

 

[Dave Haynes]

Thanks Matt, patent applied for April 1945 pretty much proves that they were not available or used in WW2.

I was a CC member for many years.

 

[davek42_43130]

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

Your post is spot on, if the guy doesn't like the carbine, he should just get another rifle.
A lot of his complaints are minor and most real gun guys could address in short order.
I have seen issues with after ma mags, GI mags work 95+. % of the time. But the same with most combat rifle mags.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

I was taught that there are two basic styles of reloading a weapon. A "Speed Reload" and a "Tactical Reload". A "Speed Reaload" is a reload where you drop the empty mag and reload the fresh mag as fast as you can. You do not attempt to recover/retain the mag as someone is shooting at you and you do not have the time to save the mag. A "Tactical Reload" is where you have the time to retain the mag for future use and can return it to your mag pouch or pocket. Of course, after things have subsided all mags can be picked up for reuse. When I taught, I taught both types of reloading. However, I stressed that if in a gunfight only a "Speed Reload" was to be used. "Tactical Reloads" have cost people their lives.

You are correct sir. The "tactical reload" is not relevant to an active gunfight, a shooting maybe, but not the gunfight.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

If you watch some of the rare film footage from Tarawa, there are several Marines behind a bunker or some cover. One is armed with a carbine and happens to catch what looks like a squad of Japanese moving to some other area. He has several dead to rights at really close range, he raises the carbine and click....all the Japs escape. That's why I'd be happier with a hold open follower. There is no doubt that it's empty. The arrival of both Carbine and M1 was timely and the automatic fire really raised the effectiveness of the Marines. There was a hint when the Marines stole every Garand that wasn't tied down at Guadalcanal. At Tarawa if they still had 1903s it could have been worse. From that perspective I'd take a carbine over a bolt action 5 shot every time.

Certainly. Bolt hold open is certainly nice but again, under duress he may not have recognized that the bolt was open and the mag empty. I have witnessed plenty of police officers shoot till empty and not recognize the condition until they pulled the trigger. I'm not arguing for or against a hold open, only that in a gunfight most know they need to reload when they pull the trigger and nothing happens. Street stress is not reproducible in range training and rarely understood.

 

[Faulkner]

Here's a picture in which I made the local paper back 10 or 15 years ago. I was off duty and at home when I got a call from dispatch that one of my co-workers had a felon run from him during a traffic stop not far from my home. I was not in uniform but I grabbed some gear and headed out to backup the deputy. Included in my gear was my department approved, newly built, Springfield, Inc., M1A1 .30 carbine. I carried this carbine as my patrol carbine for about ten years.

Later, as I was standing on the side of the road a local newspaper reporter snapped a picture of me and later came over to question me about my new fangled 'assault weapon', as he'd never seen one 'made out of wood' before. Obviously, he considered the carbine odd and seemed genuinely curious about it. Although I could appreciate his curiosity, I typically make it a point not to talk to reporters so I referred him to the department public information officer.

 

[Tracksidewrong]

Here's a picture in which I made the local paper back 10 or 15 years ago. I was off duty and at home when I got a call from dispatch that one of my co-workers had a felon run from him during a traffic stop not far from my home. I was not in uniform but I grabbed some gear and headed out to backup the deputy. Included in my gear was my department approved, newly built, Springfield, Inc., M1A1 .30 carbine. I carried this carbine as my patrol carbine for about ten years.

Later, as I was standing on the side of the road a local newspaper reporter snapped a picture of me and later came over to question me about my new fangled 'assault weapon', as he'd never seen one 'made out of wood' before. Obviously, he considered the carbine odd and seemed genuinely curious about it. Although I could appreciate his curiosity, I typically make it a point not to talk to reporters so I referred him to the department public information officer.

View attachment 777107

That is actually pretty cool!

 

[AnnieRea1920]

Are their any good after market mags for the M-1 carbine ? Or are we de pendant on old surplus I just picked up an Underwood carbine from my local pusher (pawnshop) and like to get some mags 10 , 15 ,20 or 30 which will work best. I have always wanted one of these.

I have a few and no carbine, so sell cheap. Annie Rea 1920

 

[Greyman50]

Here's a few books on the 30 Cal. M-1 Carbine, my copy of " War Baby" is in workshop. Suggest those interested in 30 Cal. M-1 Carbines BUY some reference books. There are some errors in most books but no one is perfect.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I have used the KCI Korean made 15 round mags with complete success. Haven't had a single one that didn't work properly. Most of the bigger places that sell magazines carry them.

CMP even sold these.....They are good.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The M1 Carbine was considered successful in its day because it was new technology. Semi-auto longarms were still somewhat experimental.

Thus, their standards for reliability were different than todays. Then it was felt the pros outweighed the cons and they considered the trade-off worthwhile. Today, if the M1 Carbine was introduced, with all of its inherent issues, it would be a massive failure.

It's a cool piece of history and I enjoy mine for that reason. But, as a practical weapon in the here and now? Absolutely not.

Today IS NOT yesterday..............

 

[AJ]

Here's a few books on the 30 Cal. M-1 Carbine, my copy of " War Baby" is in workshop. Suggest those interested in 30 Cal. M-1 Carbines BUY some reference books. There are some errors in most books but no one is perfect.

Greyman50, is right. I collected carbines and associated equipment for about 10 years. I have seven reference books on the subject. Never have to many!

 

[Brian Parrish]

Are their any good after market mags for the M-1 carbine ? Or are we de pendant on old surplus I just picked up an Underwood carbine from my local pusher (pawnshop) and like to get some mags 10 , 15 ,20 or 30 which will work best. I have always wanted one of these.

Always people refer to the magazines as if they work by magic.
Aftermarket mags fail simply because of the word "aftermarket", and the factory mags work because "factory" or in this case, "G.I. They ought to be able to explain specifically and scientifically why magazines don't work and how they could be modified to work.
Even comments on the thread referencing single use, (and I concur with AJ's opinion that reusing mags is NOT part of combat,) those comments still do not explain what happens to the mags when they are used once that destroys them, or how to fix them.
Another comment on "tuning" your magazines was helpful.
My experience:
The M2 mag catch is necessary to prevent movement of the front of the 30 round magazine during firing.
The hold open follower is a pain. If it works. All it does is make magazine changes more difficult because you must pull that follower off of the bolt as you pull the mag out, and then the bolt slams home anyway. So either way you must operate the handle all the way to charge the weapon. You can learn how to make mag changes work so this is nothing to worry about.

 

[Greyman50]

Gee could have taken several M-2s apart in Vietnam and sent parts home with 0 problems as all they " were looking for" was dope. Wonder how many were mailed home???.

 

[Phenix]

Are their any good after market mags for the M-1 carbine ? Or are we de pendant on old surplus I just picked up an Underwood carbine from my local pusher (pawnshop) and like to get some mags 10 , 15 ,20 or 30 which will work best. I have always wanted one of these.

15 rounders usually work the best and are the most practical.

 

[AJ]

Gee could have taken several M-2s apart in Vietnam and sent parts home with 0 problems as all they " were looking for" was dope. Wonder how many were mailed home???.

It wasn't that long ago the pieces/parts to convert an M1 to M2 were available at gunshows. As I understood it, it was not illegal to have them as long as they weren't installed in an M1.

 

[Greyman50]

The " mystic" of shooting class 3 is ok for those of us that " have been there and done it" and shooting MGs at many shoots since the 70s. IMHO many get carried away from seeing tv, movies and online junk and go crazy. Realize many states don't allow such but there are a few indoor ranges in many states that one can rent class 3 to shoot. If one has " the itch" go find a range and shoot one.

 

[Matt_X]

It wasn't that long ago the pieces/parts to convert an M1 to M2 were available at gunshows. As I understood it, it was not illegal to have them as long as they weren't installed in an M1.

My understanding is an individual piece or two is OK, but to own the full group it needs to be registered. That is of course a problem if not already done.

edited.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Certainly. Bolt hold open is certainly nice but again, under duress he may not have recognized that the bolt was open and the mag empty. I have witnessed plenty of police officers shoot till empty and not recognize the condition until they pulled the trigger. I'm not arguing for or against a hold open, only that in a gunfight most know they need to reload when they pull the trigger and nothing happens. Street stress is not reproducible in range training and rarely understood.

My point was there was no hold open on the 15s which is all they had at that time. He didn't know it and a squad of dead to rights Japs ran away. Tactical (the most overused word in firearm history) and speed didn't matter to that guy on Tarawa. He didn't know he was empty and had the mag follower been a hold open I guarantee that he'd know it. The weapon acts and feels different when not cycling as expected.

 

[AJ]

My understanding is an individual piece or two is OK, but owning the full group or significant portion of the full kit needs to be registered. That is of course a problem if not already done.

As it was explained to me was: You could own all the pieces to make it full auto. You could have all except the selector lever in the trigger group and in the carbine. Once the selector lever was installed you were in violation. Bought a carbine when I was early in my collecting of carbines phase that had an trigger group with all the M2 parts except the selector lever at a gun show. I about had a heart attack when I saw it. I talked to a friend that owned a gun store and he explained to me that I was fine as long as the selector lever was not in place. At the time all M1 and M2 parts were plentiful and for sale at gun shows and on-line.

 

[AJ]

The " mystic" of shooting class 3 is ok for those of us that " have been there and done it" and shooting MGs at many shoots since the 70s. IMHO many get carried away from seeing tv, movies and online junk and go crazy. Realize many states don't allow such but there are a few indoor ranges in many states that one can rent class 3 to shoot. If one has " the itch" go find a range and shoot one.

Shot enough full auto weapons in the Corps to know that I don't really want one and for sure can't afford to feed one even if it was .22LR!

 

[Hiwood]

Ian had an interview with an old time so called expert of the M1 carbine. Ian specifically stated he could never get any M1 carbine to work reliably. The so called expert simply replied with a contrived polite excuse and that was and I quote "The standards of reliability were less during those days". He was admitting Ian was 100% correct.

I myself was warned by my buddies way back in the 70's not to expect an M1 Carbine to work reliably and when I bought several they were 100% correct. Neither their carbines nor mine was worthy of taking into a battle unless you planned on committing suicide and going out in a blaze of glory.

The carbine's low recoil and dashing looks even made a big hit with the WWII Japanese as they often used the battle field pick up M1 carbines. I suppose their smaller statue made the lower recoiling M1 Carbine appealing and since they had a bad habit of using banzai suicide charges poor reliability was not a problem.

G.I.'s liked the Carbine for guard duty in the South Pacific at night because of its firepower over the 1911 or M1 rifle. They simply emptied one into the black of the night when they heard the slightest noise at night.

In defense of the M1 Carbine I once did a penetration experiment because the Carbine was often bad mouthed by the usual Dufus gun writers as having poor penetration. As usual they were wrong. When I shot into car windshields the carbine fmj bullets penetrated the auto windshield while the more modern 5.56mm using fmj commercial bullets did not penetrate very well often fragmenting. Green tip ammo did penetrate because (despite denials by gun owning Congressmen) it is armor piercing ammo. That came about when the ATF tried to ban the sale of surplus green tipped ammo.

Like General Patton I was always appalled by the poor accuracy of an M1 Carbine. Of course those that defend this weapon claim it was only meant to replace the 1911 pistol and was to be used only for close range blasting. This it will do if shot at normal pistol ranges of under 50 yards.

That "old time so called expert" you refer to is none other than Ken Hackathorn who most certainly IS an expert and has probably forgotten more about firearms than any of us will ever know. He is a former Gunsite Instructor as well as travelling internationally to train Tier 1 anti terrorist military units. When he speaks I listen and learn things from this man.

 

[Dave Haynes]

There are some M2 carbines around that are returned to M1 carbine function, that is not full auto. On the receiver they are marked M2 or were altered into a M1. These are still considered to be M2 full auto machine guns. All later "Potbelly"gunstocks are relieved on the left side to accommodate the M2 parts, these are fine to use in either mode. If you own an M2 or altered M2 they will probably be OK but don't be surprised if you wind up in trouble. Winchester and Inland were the only companies making M2 carbines. I'll repeat that there are hundreds of thousands of dead Germans, Japanese and Chinese that would tell you that the Carbine is a good reliable weapon but they can't.

 

[AJ]

If you have a carbine marked M2 on the receiver, you had better have the proper paperwork. If not BATF will come knocking if they find out.

 

[lawandorder]

I am another fan of the M 1 Carbine. I was given one by my Father 60 years ago and have had one or more ever since. Can not begin to give a round count through Carbines over the years. If I was using a 30 round magazine ( early on ) I always experience a few malfunctions. The 15 round magazines always were very reliable, I can remember very few failure to feeds with the 15s.

As with all calibers and firearms , proficiency is vital.

 

[Riposte1]

I am another fan of the M 1 Carbine. I was given one by my Father 60 years ago and have had one or more ever since. Can not begin to give a round count through Carbines over the years. If I was using a 30 round magazine ( early on ) I always experience a few malfunctions. The 15 round magazines always were very reliable, I can remember very few failure to feeds with the 15s.

As with all calibers and firearms , proficiency is vital.

I have a handful of G.I. 30 round mags - they usually worked for me but I didn't really like them anyway - got many more 15 rounders.

I did purchase an M2 magazine catch (the 30 round mags have an extra tab on them to lock into the M2 catch - I can't recal if I intalled it in one of my M1s or not, since I seldom use the 30 round mags.

I think CDNN and perhaps Sarco are selling "Korean" magazines - they seem to work OK.

Riposte

 

[Ska8erGirl]

The 30 round mags generally don't work very well. Have an M1A1 and I play heck finding 30 rounders that work. For general use, the KCI 15 rounds mags work well. Collectors want the mag that matches the carbine manufacturer.

The only 30 round magazines that have ever been reliable IME have been USGI hardbacks. The great thing about them is that they were relatively complicated and expensive to make, thus no one ever made knock-offs. They are also very tough/durable due to how they were made. The bad thing is that they tend to be very expensive, new in wrap are usually selling for $100+