Mags for M -1 carbine

[elfego baca]

I have a 'bunch' ò M1 cảbine Mags. All GI. Some 15 some 30. I like the 15s for range plinking!
My cast bullet loads work un all of them.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Bolts not locking open during stress firing is not a negative characteristic. No matter what you and I think, no one...NO ONE...becomes "one with the gun" and stops aggressive fighting because they feel the bolt lock open, indicating a failure or empty mag. That's range, armchair commando thinking. During fight shooting, a person will not be able to stop an aggressive trigger action in time to know the bolt is open. They learn it because they press the trigger and nothing happens. Being a career retired law enforcement deady force instructor, and having reviewed, witnessed and investigated a bazillion officer involved deadly force incidents, the pattern of human behavior is the same. If it goes click, do something....typically. it is to reload.

If you watch some of the rare film footage from Tarawa, there are several Marines behind a bunker or some cover. One is armed with a carbine and happens to catch what looks like a squad of Japanese moving to some other area. He has several dead to rights at really close range, he raises the carbine and click....all the Japs escape. That's why I'd be happier with a hold open follower. There is no doubt that it's empty. The arrival of both Carbine and M1 was timely and the automatic fire really raised the effectiveness of the Marines. There was a hint when the Marines stole every Garand that wasn't tied down at Guadalcanal. At Tarawa if they still had 1903s it could have been worse. From that perspective I'd take a carbine over a bolt action 5 shot every time.

 

[desi2358]

I didn’t understand that comment either. A Carbine has no piston, only a short stroke tappet secured by a threaded retainer. There is seldom any reason to remove the tappet for cleaning and I have never done it. I have cleaned mine by plugging the chamber then pouring bore solvent down the vertical bore, then wiggling the tappet back and forth with a magnet to pump the solvent in and out of the tappet housing. Never saw or heard of any cracks.

You're quite correct, the tappet system works and your method for cleaning one is the same I've used. It worked even with some of the fake LC Chinese stuff that was imported years ago and was found to be corrosive. Some people do refer to the tappet as a piston, I've encountered more than a few who do that over the years. The nut that retains the tappet is staked to discourage unneeded disassembly and ensure it doesn't work loose on its own.

I have found a couple tappet housings with cracks. Two that I recall were Korean returns, one was an older DCM gun. Normally running from the small hole left over from machining through the threads. Since the nut was staked in place it didn't seem to have any effect on operation. I didn't feel like spending money on a barrel so I just shot the heck out of the first one and the nut never came loose in all the time I owned it.

 

[bph9]

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[bph9]

There are no rings on a carbine piston. Crack? maybe..some makers used a put together gas/ barrel others like Winchester had it all in one piece. The more likely problem was buggered up threads in the piston nut. They at first worried about cleaning the gas system and had a castle nut pipe thread arrangement so the nut could be removed to clean. Experience showed that the N.C. primers, powder type and position of the piston made cleaning unnecessary and just staked the nuts in place at the factory.

I have had the retaining ring come loose on all my M1 carbines and if you tighten it too tight it cracks the gas tappet housing faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof. I stand by what I said, it's a very poor design because once you remove the tappet to clean the gas system you probably will not be able to re-stake it without damaging the housing.

I have passed up buying many an M1 Carbine after first checking to see if the tappet housing was cracked and guess what many of the ones I looked at had indeed cracked housings.

And I also disagree on the wild excuses that it was designed that what way because you never need to take it apart. Well you do not if you just want a single shot weapon because sooner than later the systeem does indeed need cleaned.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I have had the retaining ring come loose on all my M1 carbines and if you tighten it too tight it cracks the gas tappet housing faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof. I stand by what I said, it's a very poor design because once you remove the tappet to clean the gas system you probably will not be able to re-stake it without damaging the housing.

I have passed up buying many an M1 Carbine after first checking to see if the tappet housing was cracked and guess what many of the ones I looked at had indeed cracked housings.

And I also disagree on the wild excuses that it was designed that what way because you never need to take it apart. Well you do not if you just want a single shot weapon because sooner than later the systeem does indeed need cleaned.

I've seen inside several with the castle nut removed and they all were clean as a whistle, I mean absolutely no carbon at all and dry as a bone, the tappets also clear and clean. May be choice of powder, who knows. Maybe they had been cleaned. They originally used 4227
and IMR stick powder seems like it would leave more debris after firing. I guarantee that those Marine carbines were shot to Sxxx and their guns were staked. Most guns I've seen have threads left sticking out after tightening ( which is why they get cracked, when Bubba tries to make it go down flush with the cylinder where there are no threads ). Staking is simply interrupting the threads so they can't turn, a punch spot where the threads meet will do it and not wreck things. Every carbine owner should have a new piston nut as well as several extractors, plungers and springs. Probably most surplus carbines have been restaked, some several times. Absolutely agree that the gas area can be cracked by over torquing with that wrench. Inland etc bought millions of those gas cylinders. I'd bet that a lot of them looked fine and were when left alone, but when messed with would fail. I've watch people do horrible things with a wrench in hand.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I am not going to argue with you bph9. It is obvious that you And internet "links" mean nothing. Mag loaders and stripper clips/guides

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I am not going argue with you bph9. Asking for internet "links" is silly, and sale items on Ebay do not grant credibility. Mag loaders and stripper clip/guides are available as support items for every magazine issued from WW2 to present with the exception of handguns. Magazines newly issued were and are loaded in support areas by logistical or direct combat personnel. These items are used as directed when available. Some feed systems are pre-loaded but very few. If the word "disposable" bothers you, then reconstruct the sentence with "lower priority item" or "retain when practical". Same is true for M1 clips, belts and links for squad belt feds, yet issue belt loader and linkers were issued to load these in echelon support areas. Some linked ammo, when it became available, was pre-loaded by depots.

 

[AJ]

I was taught that there are two basic styles of reloading a weapon. A "Speed Reload" and a "Tactical Reload". A "Speed Reaload" is a reload where you drop the empty mag and reload the fresh mag as fast as you can. You do not attempt to recover/retain the mag as someone is shooting at you and you do not have the time to save the mag. A "Tactical Reload" is where you have the time to retain the mag for future use and can return it to your mag pouch or pocket. Of course, after things have subsided all mags can be picked up for reuse. When I taught, I taught both types of reloading. However, I stressed that if in a gunfight only a "Speed Reload" was to be used. "Tactical Reloads" have cost people their lives.

 

[Matt_X]

I have an old NPM with an original IBM barrel well used that holds the 9 ring (4") on an SR-1 at 100 yds all day.

I think keeping in the SR-1 9 ring is a realistic expectation.
Anything outside the black is me, not the gun or the ammo.

Given a choice I'd want an M1 rifle too but a carbine is nothing to sneeze at.

For accuracy and distance, the rifle is better for sure, especially with hasty or loop sling. But as far as which is better, it situation dependent for sure. Audie Murphy mentions one incident where he would have "given the world" for a tommy gun.

I worked with a Guadalcanal Marine and he bitched and moaned about the carbine. The didn't have any carbines on the Canal.

It's the same in almost every field and endevour. A story or belief starts getting around and gets repeated and even if it had made sense the first time, at some point in the telling it no longer would be physically possible. Paul Harrell addresses this in several of his videos including the ones on experts and the one about the M1 carbine.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Links to your claims that the mags were designed to be disposal ????? If so then why did the Army issue magazine loaders with stripper clips? Below is my link to back up what I say.

Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stripper Clip and Loader M1 Carbine Rifles Rifle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The magazine loaders were developed to accommodate the 30 rd M2 mags...3-10s and it is full. I don't know if there ever was any loaders or bandoleers designed for the 15 rd mags, the ammunition came in 50 rd boxes. I too doubt that the 15s were designed for single use, but they made many millions of them, huge boxes all wrapped in wax paper. They were dirt cheap until they were gone.... If someone knows when the bandoleer tool and strippers came out that might help.
If there was one area of the carbine that could stand a design redo it would be the magazine system. But the manufacturers were trying to keep the weight under 6 lb and more parts meant more weight.

 

[Matt_X]

If someone knows when the bandoleer tool and strippers came out that might help.

Come on over and join the discussion

Carbine Clips! - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

2025-BDan’s Notes:Clips, Cartridge, Carbine April 1945 the Army Service Forces of the Ordnance Department...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

As Sgt Mize relates in this interview, he only learned about the clips the hard way (when he gets to the BAR gunner, time mark 5:50 in the you tube video). Another example of the breakdown in training and communication during this time period. This breakdown probably contributed to people to jumping to conclusions based on the limited information and knowledge they had. S.L.A. Marshall did not help the situation as we now know that he made up some of his interviews to promote his own theories.

 

[Dave Haynes]

So many of the carbines are different in so many ways. It depended upon who made them. In the case of Inland, when the pressure was really on, Inland petitioned the govt to allow parts with slight problems but still worked well to use these parts. I've seen late 44 barrels that have rifling that looks like a .45 barrel, shallow rifling unlike the usual rifling you'd see on a Winchester or Underwood, hand guards that only show enough sight to barely make them work. Rockola went through their rejected parts stash and recovered and used a huge amount of them. Bent barrels were straightened by experts from Springfield and used. When you are making 1,000 a day, everything helps.
I think that may explain the accuracy potential of individual guns. Larry Ruth considers NPM to be the best guns and they seem to have a little edge on quality. Underwood seemed to make the best barrels, Buffalo Arms the worst. So it went. Winchester, Inland, Underwood, IBM, Buffalo Arms, Rockola and a few Marlins, were the barrel makers, everyone else used what they could get through the free issue program. NPM in late production used a lot of IBM barrels. So one carbine could be a tack driver and the next not so good.

 

[Matt_X]

Whatever problems there were during production, every one had to meet the production standards before acceptance.
The 5" group mentioned by Ellis Lenze on page 188 of War Baby! seems to have been the requirement.
The CCC is looking to crowd source accuracy of carbines with BA barrels

Buffalo Arms barrel quality - The Carbine Collector's Club

I just heard/read that the m1 carbine community does not like buffalo arms barrels. I am in the process...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

 

[Dave Haynes]

Thanks Matt, patent applied for April 1945 pretty much proves that they were not available or used in WW2.

I was a CC member for many years.

 

[davek42_43130]

Wow. I must say that EVERY M1 & M2 Carbine that I own (12 exactly) work with great reliability as long as I use GI mags, either 15 or 30 rds. Commercial mags, not so much. Sounds like you have a sour spot on the M1 Carbine that affects your outlook. WW2 & Korean war history tells us that the Carbine was very reliable and the cartridge was effective inside of 200-yds. Not the terminal ballistics of the M2 cartridge but sufficient for its designated role. And correctly, the magazines were designed to discard following use, not collect for re-use. That was by design and not because it was "rushed" into production. Almost every combat arm is designed with disposable feed systems.

Your post is spot on, if the guy doesn’t like the carbine, he should just get another rifle.
A lot of his complaints are minor and most real gun guys could address in short order.
I have seen issues with after ma mags, GI mags work 95+. % of the time. But the same with most combat rifle mags.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

I was taught that there are two basic styles of reloading a weapon. A "Speed Reload" and a "Tactical Reload". A "Speed Reaload" is a reload where you drop the empty mag and reload the fresh mag as fast as you can. You do not attempt to recover/retain the mag as someone is shooting at you and you do not have the time to save the mag. A "Tactical Reload" is where you have the time to retain the mag for future use and can return it to your mag pouch or pocket. Of course, after things have subsided all mags can be picked up for reuse. When I taught, I taught both types of reloading. However, I stressed that if in a gunfight only a "Speed Reload" was to be used. "Tactical Reloads" have cost people their lives.

You are correct sir. The "tactical reload" is not relevant to an active gunfight, a shooting maybe, but not the gunfight.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

If you watch some of the rare film footage from Tarawa, there are several Marines behind a bunker or some cover. One is armed with a carbine and happens to catch what looks like a squad of Japanese moving to some other area. He has several dead to rights at really close range, he raises the carbine and click....all the Japs escape. That's why I'd be happier with a hold open follower. There is no doubt that it's empty. The arrival of both Carbine and M1 was timely and the automatic fire really raised the effectiveness of the Marines. There was a hint when the Marines stole every Garand that wasn't tied down at Guadalcanal. At Tarawa if they still had 1903s it could have been worse. From that perspective I'd take a carbine over a bolt action 5 shot every time.

Certainly. Bolt hold open is certainly nice but again, under duress he may not have recognized that the bolt was open and the mag empty. I have witnessed plenty of police officers shoot till empty and not recognize the condition until they pulled the trigger. I'm not arguing for or against a hold open, only that in a gunfight most know they need to reload when they pull the trigger and nothing happens. Street stress is not reproducible in range training and rarely understood.

 

[Faulkner]

Here's a picture in which I made the local paper back 10 or 15 years ago. I was off duty and at home when I got a call from dispatch that one of my co-workers had a felon run from him during a traffic stop not far from my home. I was not in uniform but I grabbed some gear and headed out to backup the deputy. Included in my gear was my department approved, newly built, Springfield, Inc., M1A1 .30 carbine. I carried this carbine as my patrol carbine for about ten years.

Later, as I was standing on the side of the road a local newspaper reporter snapped a picture of me and later came over to question me about my new fangled 'assault weapon', as he'd never seen one 'made out of wood' before. Obviously, he considered the carbine odd and seemed genuinely curious about it. Although I could appreciate his curiosity, I typically make it a point not to talk to reporters so I referred him to the department public information officer.

 

[Tracksidewrong]

Here's a picture in which I made the local paper back 10 or 15 years ago. I was off duty and at home when I got a call from dispatch that one of my co-workers had a felon run from him during a traffic stop not far from my home. I was not in uniform but I grabbed some gear and headed out to backup the deputy. Included in my gear was my department approved, newly built, Springfield, Inc., M1A1 .30 carbine. I carried this carbine as my patrol carbine for about ten years.

Later, as I was standing on the side of the road a local newspaper reporter snapped a picture of me and later came over to question me about my new fangled 'assault weapon', as he'd never seen one 'made out of wood' before. Obviously, he considered the carbine odd and seemed genuinely curious about it. Although I could appreciate his curiosity, I typically make it a point not to talk to reporters so I referred him to the department public information officer.

View attachment 777107

That is actually pretty cool!