Local gun shops concerned this could happen to them?

Frank121

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Mention was made in another bike forum thread by a gun shop fellow that some new in box gun prices bought online are less than their gun shop's dealer cost. I don't know about a dealer's cost of a gun, but I do know that recently in several gun shops and gun shows I have seen prices on fairly common guns such as a Ruger LC9S that were almost $90 higher with tax than the same gun ordered on line that came with free shipping plus the FFL charge. That is quite a difference when you are talking $319 vs. $406.

I used to work with some bicycle shops many years ago (no longer in that hobby) and they had a situation when large bike name-brand companies would require them to buy a minimum number of bicycles to stay as an authorized dealer or even to get any bikes from the company. This almost always came with a "no returns" policy from the big bike company...they were now the property of the local bike shop.

The problem began when the bike companies and distributors began selling their unsold inventory at the end of the bike season to primarily large online bike sellers (Colorado Cyclist for example) at clearance prices lower than the local bike shops paid at dealer cost. The local bike shops were then faced with having to try and sell a bike that was priced more than someone could order it online and ended up having to take a loss on each sale.

The problem got drastically worse and became a vicious cycle when the bicycle companies and distributors not only started selling excess inventory at below dealer's cost, but also started to advertise a "better newer faster stronger" (BNFS) next year model to the public to try and generate interest and future sales.

This situation was made worse for local bicycle shops as as overall bike sales began slowing and bicycle companies and distributors relied more and more on the "better newer faster stronger" model to try to generate more demand and get more sales. The fire sale of last year's models and announcements and advertisements of the BNFS models started coming earlier and earlier each year. This resulted in potential buyers not wanting to buy the current floor model bikes and waiting for the BNFS ones to arrive next year.

This caused the local bike shop to get squeezed even earlier in the season than usual. Not only could they not sell the current model at a profit, they sometimes couldn't even move them at a loss because the new next year models were promised to be such revolutionary products. That meant the local bike shop had to carry the unsold current model over the winter and then had to try to sell a now one year old non-BNFS model in a slowing sale environment the next bike season. That didn't work well at all.

This business model was not a viable one for most of the smaller bike shops. Minimum order requirements were increased by the big bike companies and distributors to make up for slowing overall bike sales, resulting in the smaller local bike shops having to quit carrying those brands. Other lesser-known bike brands who were willing to sell in smaller quantities to the local bike shops had less desirable (read that as not as publicized to the masses through expensive bike magazine advertising and professional Tour de France level bike racing team sponsorships or having cheaper components) bikes and/or charged a higher price per bike on smaller purchases by the local bike shops.

The bike component manufacturers soon followed suit by allowing their name brand components to not just be sold by local brick and mortar dealers, but by the online catalog bike component sellers. In many cases, the local bike shop owners told me that reduced their component sales and service business significantly and that it became cheaper for them to buy components from the on-line catalog sellers than it was to buy from the manufactures and distributors.

The result of this unscientific finding by me? With no consideration or protection of the local brick and mortar stores by the manufacturers and distributors, not one of those small bike shops is in business today. No doubt there are innumerable factors that brought about the demise of these local bike shops, but for two of the ones that closed the owners told me it was a direct result of the bike companies' actions described above. I don't know that bike and gun shops are a mirror comparison, but I do hope that the impact the bike companies had on their loyal small bike shops doesn't come to pass in the gun world.
 
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Fortunately or unfortunately the internet is the direction that the American consumer has pushed things. Many only care about price. Service is a secondary concern.

I can understand if you live in an area where gun shops don't exist or the selection is small.

Brick and mortar stores are already in trouble. Gander Mountain, Sears, JC Penny to name a few. It concerns me because as more stores close or go out of business, the consumer is creating a monopoly of internet sellers and big box stores that can compete with the internet. Our choices will be limited locally which will drive up prices. By not supporting small business, we will pay more later.
 
Friend of mine had a shop selling and servicing lawnmowers, chainsaws and other landscaping equipment. He got so frustrated that he finally hung a sign saying "If you bought it on the internet, get it fixed on the internet!"
 
At my lgs, besides the mandatory training sessions for new hunters & CCW licensing, the only guns they keep in stock are used guns bought from folks looking for a quick sale. Their prices for those guns are not attractive to me. As with me, most of the folks there, are doing internet sales transfers. The owner told me a few years ago that the $25 he nets on a transfer is greater than the margin he makes on new inventory. Plus, he has no investment to risk. Lately, he's been exhausting his ammo inventory. Can't compete with the Walmart. I don't know where this is heading. I do know that "the last man standing" in any given market area will be able to charge anything they want for transfers. It's not gonna get any better, it'll only get worse. I try to throw as much bidness to my lgs, but he keeps so little ancillary inventory and his used guns are so overpriced, I find it hard to do. I do know that when this internet buying started the only gun store in my county (still a fur piece from me) that would do it was charging $100 per.
 
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At my lgs, besides the mandatory training sessions for new hunters & CCW licensing, the only guns they keep in stock are used guns bought from folks looking for a quick sale. Their prices for those guns are not attractive to me. As with me, most of the folks there, are doing internet sales transfers. The owner told me a few years ago that the $25 he nets on a transfer is greater than the margin he makes on inventory. Plus, he has no investment to risk. Lately, he's been exhausting his ammo inventory. Can't compete with the Walmart. I don't know where this is heading. I do know that "the last man standing" in any given market area will be able to charge anything they want for transfers. It's not gonna get any better, it'll only get worse. I try to throw as much bidness to my lgs, but he keeps so little ancillary inventory and his used guns are so overpriced, I find it hard to do. I do know that when this internet buying started the only gun store in my county (still a fur piece from me) that would do it was charging $100 per.

If this guy can't make more than $25 for a used gun then he doesn't know what he's doing. Used guns and accessories is where the money is. Transfer fees is gravy on top.
 
I'm pretty sure one of the gun stores near me buy used to help sell new. Their mark up on used is pretty small. I know what a good price is on a used gun and they have good prices. They will also dicker a little on a used gun. I've purchased several used from them and always got a good deal.

The other gun store near me has a few new guns but most of his business is internet sales. He doesn't have much inventory but he has a pretty good website that can order anything the distributor has available. I just punch the keyboard a few times and the gun shows up at his store. I go in, do the paperwork and walk out with the gun. Prices are about as low as any other website and I don't have to deal with the shipping. He takes care of the transfer and shipping, no charge. This is sort of a hybrid business, doesn't get any better than than that.
 
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I didn't explicitly say $25 on a used gun. I meant $25 on a new gun and changed my op to reflect that.

I buy from my local area gun shops when they have the gun I am looking for. Since most of my purchases were vintage S&W revolvers that they didn't have I asked about their FFL transfers.

One is $45 and doesn't really promote that. The others, from $20 to $25, said they would be glad to take $20/25 all day for no more work than they have to do on an FFL. They only do FFL to FFL transfers (no individual to them) which is fine with me.

All of the shops I deal with are run by very nice employees and provide customer service I couldn't get online.
 
Undercutting the retail channel is bad business. That's different than someone, presumably a FFL, selling on an auction site. They aren't the manufacturer selling directly to the public, they are on line retailers selling to the public.

The local FFL can always refuse to do transfers on guns sold by someone else. There is some risk to that, but it's one thing that can be done.

Personally, I prefer to buy from local shops if they have or can get what I want. The two that I have recently bought from will not deal on new guns, but one definitely will deal on used guns.

Local shops that don't list their inventory on their websites are at a distinct disadvantage against those that do. While I like to go into shops and look at what they have, I'm not likely to drive 60 or more miles just to see if they have something interesting. I will drive that distance if they have something I want listed on their website.

I have difficulty understanding why many gun shops are so mired in yesterday's technology. Many are still doing paper 4473s.

I bought my snowblower from a brick and mortar local shop. That might need service and the guy that I bought it from told me that if it does, he'll come and pick it up at no charge. Other shops charge up to $75.00 to pick up a machine, even if it's for a warranty repair. At least that's what they charge if you bought the machine through a big box stores.

The guy I bought mine from told me that he does warranty work on big box store bought machines. He also told me that they go to the end of the line. He takes care of the machines bought from him, then gets to the other stuff. For the $100.00 or so that buying at a big box would save me, it's worth it to buy from him.

Sears has been in financial trouble for years. On line retailing has added to their woes, but they were going down the drain for a long time before that. Same with Bradlees, Aims, and Caldor. All were gone before the internet was even a dream. Ann and Hope, Woolworth, and others too.

Retail sales are a business with great profit potential, but also great potential to go broke. Certainly GM and Chrysler didn't go belly up because of the internet. They went bankrupt because they made an unreliable product that was built like *******.
 
Didn't read all that but I can tell you that some of it has to do with the buying power of the store. My local store moves A LOT of inventory. They'll often buy 500, 1000 and up units for much much cheaper than it would cost to buy 10 or 20. There years ago they were selling POF 308 ARs for $1499 while the typical price was $2499. They did this because they bought over 500 units. Before that they had the FN FNX 45 tactical with red dot. Normal price was over $1000, they were selling for $699. Again, because they bought over a thousand of them.

They have brand new Sig 229 now for $579

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I have heard that Sam's Club sells tires at prices below what smaller tire stores have to pay for tires. I'd sort of believe that, as at least in my area, I usually end up buying at Sam's after checking everyone else's tire prices - with one exception, that being Pep Boys. And that's because Pep Boys usually has sales.
 
I gave up on the online gun buying game long ago. The total OTD always came out close enough to my LGS price that it just wasn't worth it. I always give my LGS first crack at my money. The difference has to be enough to make me not support my local shop.
 
I gave up on the online gun buying game long ago. The total OTD always came out close enough to my LGS price that it just wasn't worth it. I always give my LGS first crack at my money. The difference has to be enough to make me not support my local shop.
Same here. Only time I do do it is when it's something specific that the LGS can't/don't have and it's usually bought on one of the boards. And I do it very rarely

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Nothing wrong with supporting local business. Sadly, most new businesses go under, just like any venture, few succeed, most fail. Nice people who work hard and risk much may not be astute businessmen. I see really nice restaurants, in great locations, that are packed at mealtimes, that go under. Business now has to change with the times to remain viable and profitable. It's hard, and with all the options available, every customer is precious to a small business. I can only think of one LGS around here that isn't a pawn shop. They also have an indoor range and teach CC classes.
 
I can only think of one LGS around here that isn't a pawn shop. They also have an indoor range and teach CC classes.

A lot of shops went under in the past eight years. Biggest gripes I've seen on my local forums are customer service (or lack of) and outrageous prices.

This is where the free market guys chime in with "You can charge what you want!"

And a lot of guys rode that battle cry right into bankruptcy.

Lots of the people I see getting griped about are former cops & .mil. They're used to people putting up with their BS just because. That's not how it works in the real world.

OTOH my favorite range is going under. Great people, clean range, great Yelp, training, classes, etc. Just couldn't compete with a bigger place up the street.
 
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Internet works both ways. I found a local FFL as a result of buying something from a large internet outfit. They figured out a symbiotic relationship.
What I mean is the internet outfit couldn't make the sale to me without the local place (brick and mortar I might add). The local place made a cash sale (transfer fee) and new customer because they linked themselves as a preferred transfer dealer to the internet site.
Since the local place I discovered as a result of this transaction is pretty good about responding when I am in the market for something I shoot him an email and I ask if he can get it, if so I'll buy it from him. He'll respond that yes he can and a price or he will say he can't but if I find it somewhere else he'd be glad to transfer it. The large internet outfits are putting customer in his door. His good customer service is bringing them back. Win win.
 
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