Re-Bluing a Vintage Smith & Wesson?

[raljr1]

I always read these discussions with keen interest. I have a K32 that has considerable finish wear and a bubba ground front sight. I have a replacement sight, and have debated having this gun restored,. I have a K22 and. K38, both in very good condition, and I'd like the K32 to look the same. Now to those who say sell it and buy a better one, have you looked at K32 prices lately?. I have $1150 in my K32. If I spent $600 to have it restored, I have a hard time believing I couldn't sell that piece for $2000, when good original ones are selling for twice that .. I know it won't be original, but in the current condition, it will never be a true collector piece, now will it? And since selling it will be my son's concern, why do I care.

If I was confident I could get a Turnbull type restoration, I would do so. Based on some of the changes I've heard about at Ford's I'm not sure about using them. So for now, my K32 stays ugly.

 

[steelslaver]

I agree with those that mention polishing as highly important.

Another is finish before it ever touches a polisher.

I have done high polish knife blades. If there is a small scratch it doesn't polish out as much as polishing gives you a polished scratch. Polishing is really just high grit sanding. If your using 4000 grid polish it will take forever to remove a 400 grit scratch. Plus, it is very difficult to get a smooth even polish without slightly messing up the contour and making surface wavy. Power buffing also can kind of smear metal. The guys that do blades with differential HT and clay to develop a Hamon will not use a power buffer because it will blend the steel in the hamon area and it will never be as good as hand sanded to very high grit and hand buffed.

The guys who did the sanding and ran the buffers for S&W were highly skilled craftsmen on the same level or possibly a higher level than the guys who hand fit them.

 

[jmace57]

I have one I struggle with. It is a 38/44 HD from 1936 that went to the Amsterdam, NY police department (from a Jinks letter).

Some previous owner thought it would look better if they stripped the blue off. They must have taken naval jelly or something and they stripped every bit of blue off of it. No marks or scratches - never been buffed. Really beautiful condition. But zero finish.

It's no longer original...and I am really tempted to have it reblued. It looks almost like it could be degreased and dropped in the tank.

 

[rct269]

It occurs to me those who have experienced unsatisfactory results from Fords have made an unwise detour along the way----cost consideration--and its inevitable consequences. Without belaboring the point unnecessarily, you get what you are willing to pay for.

It puts me in mind mind of my favorite engine builder during my somewhat adventurous youth. A very prominent sign in the shop area went something like this: SPEED COSTS MONEY---HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO? (Actually it didn't go something like that, it went EXACTLY like that-----an object lesson for those at the back of the pack.)

And to definitely belabor the point, "You get what you pay for."

And to belabor another point, whoever opined the best way to make a silk purse from a sow's ear is to first sell the sow's ear, then save up the necessary extra funds to buy the silk purse is right on target-----works every time.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, I have never had a gun refinished by Fords (or anybody else besides two from the factory). I have seen several from Fords---both blue ("Master Blue") and nickel. They were, without exception, flawless. Some of those had been EXTENSIVELY "restored"----which is to say both some lettering AND the S&W logo had been re cut---flawlessly.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

I have a pre-war KCPD non-registered Magnum from 1940. It was ruined when I found it from a previous re-blue and awful trigger job that left the gun with "push-off" and some other issues that made it unsafe to shoot. It was for all intents and purposes headed for the scrap yard. There are also only 1100 or so of them and that means very few are left. There is a difference between a "re-blue" and a restoration to factory condition. I opted to go for a full restoration to as nice a condition as possible.

I sent it off to Dave Chiccone, Old West Gunsmiths. He has since died and I think the company is out of business. He did a beautiful job with the gun and it looks like it did the day it left the factory. I replaced the Hogue grip with a proper set of Keith Brown stocks with original prewar medallions.

According to some folks here, I'm sure it is all but worthless, especially if they are offering to buy it. But, it is now alive and fully functional and back in it's original shape. I look at it as money well spent to save a piece of history.

The choice is up to you. If it is from the Custer battlefield or once owned by J.Edgar Hoover, then you might want to leave it in original condition. I made my choice based on the condition and history of the gun and it was worth it to me to save this gun from the scrap heap.

 

[Rangeline9]

A vintage S&W Factory Refurbished Schofield.

This is one of Dad's.

It is S&W Factory Refurbished 1st Schofield with premium blue, performed "back in the day" when craftsmen were king.

This guy is sporting a Huey Case with Sterling Silver oil bottle and custom hollow ground screwdriver which is correct to the gun, and a period cleaning rod.

 

[model3sw]

This is one of Dad's.

It is S&W Factory Refurbished 1st Schofield with premium blue, performed "back in the day" when craftsmen were king.

This guy is sporting a Huey Case with Sterling Silver oil bottle and custom hollow ground screwdriver which is correct to the gun, and a period cleaning rod.

Hmmmm ... I thought that looked familiar !

PS: you are NOT allowed to fire THAT Schofield. Use one of the other Schofields if you must but use only the ammo that I loaded for it.

 

[Inusuit]

I've had three guns refinished by this firm in Glenrock WY. It's within a couple hours of my residence. They've done excellent work, but as someone noted, you get what you pay for and their top tier re-blue is spendy. One of the firearms they did for me was Model 15-6 with a lot of holster wear. I was very happy with the results, but it cost as much as the gun and I understand I will never recoup that investment.
Glenrock Blue

 

[rct269]

I've had three guns refinished by this firm in Glenrock WY. It's within a couple hours of my residence. They've done excellent work, but as someone noted, you get what you pay for and their top tier re-blue is spendy. One of the firearms they did for me was Model 15-6 with a lot of holster wear. I was very happy with the results, but it cost as much as the gun and I understand I will never recoup that investment.
Glenrock Blue

I'm impressed!!

That which impressed me the most is the price difference between Factory, Deluxe, and Master blue----knowing full well the difference has not the first thing to do with the bluing---but with the preparation. Clearly they know it too!!

Here's how to grade preparation: Some's good, more's better-----and too much is just right!! (Same goes for horsepower and money.)

Were I to consider a refinish, I would be more than comfortable shipping it off to these folks-----and I'll bet I wouldn't be disappointed.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[model3sw]

I've had three guns refinished by this firm in Glenrock WY. It's within a couple hours of my residence. They've done excellent work, but as someone noted, you get what you pay for and their top tier re-blue is spendy. One of the firearms they did for me was Model 15-6 with a lot of holster wear. I was very happy with the results, but it cost as much as the gun and I understand I will never recoup that investment.
Glenrock Blue

As a retired automotive restoration shop owner, the rule mostly applies as: " you get what you pay for" ... providing the shop is not a crook.

One less than perfect job from my shop would have put me out of business, while every perfect job out the door brought me 2 new customers and 10x the great verbal or "clique" approval of the major auto collectors.

I had turned down more jobs than I accepted, though. Once something is past the point of no return ... you must shock the owner into reality by refusing his money ... no matter how much he offers.

 

[A10]

I have one I struggle with. It is a 38/44 HD from 1936 that went to the Amsterdam, NY police department (from a Jinks letter).

Some previous owner thought it would look better if they stripped the blue off. They must have taken naval jelly or something and they stripped every bit of blue off of it. No marks or scratches - never been buffed. Really beautiful condition. But zero finish.

It's no longer original...and I am really tempted to have it reblued. It looks almost like it could be degreased and dropped in the tank.

Ouch.....given what has been done to it, I'd probably nickel plate the gun and shoot the heck out of it....btw, is that a humpback hammer? If so, double ouch!!

 

[LongColt45]

The Bottom Line

Thanks, everyone, for the excellent feedback. You have taken of your time to respond to me, now I will return the favor.

gmborkovic, JSR III and lamarw: You've provided sound advice for dealing with the rust spots. Because those spots are hidden under the grips, my primary concern is not so much their total removal but rather preventing any further spreading. I'll forgo the steel wool and use less aggressive methods.

rct269: Thanks for the significant addition to my bluing process description.

model3sw: I appreciate your well-articulated perspective on this topic. Really good information there.

hondo44: Sounds like you totally get me. Excellent point about the variations to the finishes over time and across models as well.

My thinking has always been that were I to have this .44 re-blued it would have to be a "restoration" to as original a condition as currently possible, and I would be happy to pay the premium for that. That's why my first choice was the S&W factory. As an aside, last year I had one of my Pythons restored by Colt, and the result was a finish identical to that of my other pristine original.

Fords and Glenrock have been on my radar for a few years now as a result of my interest in collecting custom 1911s. Both have solid reputations in that arena, but modern high-end 1911s aren't vintage revolvers – there's a heck of difference. I have had single action revolvers refinished by Turnbull in charcoal blue with case colors, but they are not specialists in high polish, bright blue double action revolver restorations.

I am a bit leery of a complete re-polish, unless performed by a consummate professional. I have seen total mirror finish bluing on 1911s from the likes of Baron, etc. While they were visually stunning, upon close inspection the sharp edges can easily be lost and the roll marks and stampings can be softened. I was thinking more along the lines of correcting any surface blemishes and then a period correct re-blue. I have learned here that there are problems and variables in trying to get that accomplished.

My goal is to have at least one really bitchin' looking Pre-Model 29. I don't mind paying the going rate for a 98+% one either, because that is the price of playing this game right now. I would also pay the fat premium to get a "factory original restoration", if there were a shop that everyone agrees could guarantee me that.

A lot of you have made the point that if my gun were in worse condition than it is, then little would be lost, historically speaking, with a re-finish. But my .44 is not that bad ... and some of you are wrestling with this same conundrum.

As I re-read all of your advice (and it is all really good), there are now too many posts to respond to each one. I was just too slow! As I suspected, the opinions on whether or not to re-finish my vintage Pre-Model 29 have run the gamut from one end of the spectrum to the other - from "heaven forbid" to "if it will give you pleasure, go for it".

But it is the detailed rationale behind your opinions, which most of you have provided, that has proven most valuable to me. What emerges from this discussion is a deeper level of understanding of the consequences of my taking either path.

I pick up the gun on Thursday. I am going to shoot it, off-hand and with my Ransom Rest, then tear it completely down and clean it up as best I can. We'll see how it looks then. At this point, after absorbing your comments, I am reluctant to refinish it without much very considered thought.

I must say that I very much appreciate the helpfulness of this online community. Taken as a collective, there is a depth of experience, knowledge and consequent wisdom that would be difficult to duplicate in other venues. The level of maturity on this sub-forum I also find refreshing. So thanks again.
Charlie

 

[kbm6893]

I have a 10-6 that was very worn. I had it reblued at a place near me. It looks beautiful now. Don't care that I won't get the money back. I like good
Looking guns.

 

[LongColt45]

Does anyone have any photos they can post of Glenrock's work?

The somewhat limited photo gallery on their website does not show any revolvers listed as being done with their Master Finish.

kbm6893: I share your sentiments exactly - I like good looking firearms and don't care if I don't get all of the return on investment of a re-finish. My dilemma is that my Pre-29 is probably a 90% gun.

 

[kbm6893]

Does anyone have any photos they can post of Glenrock's work?

The somewhat limited photo gallery on their website does not show any revolvers listed as being done with their Master Finish.

kbm6893: I share your sentiments exactly - I like good looking firearms and don't care if I don't get all of the return on investment of a re-finish. My dilemma is that my Pre-29 is probably a 90% gun.

I probably wouldn't have refinished a 90% gun. But it would depend on where the loss was.

 

[retiredbadge8091]

Here is the thing. If you want your gun to be perfect so it can sit in a glass case and you can admire it, you'll be ogling a fraud. And others won't respect or admire it because they'll think of it as a fraud or fake as well. The previous value, taking into consideration condition, will be even more diminished as far as most are concerned.

If you want it to look nice when you take it to the range, you'll worry every minute about putting that first scratch on it. Cleaning it after some range time will be torturously slow and painstaking. You'll never be able to put it in the hand of a neophyte and let them shoot a piece of history. That history will be lost on a polishing belt and chemical bath. Besides, you'll be worrying about wear.

These classic firearms are classics because they've stood the test of time, not because they've avoided it. If it truly was a NIB gun then stash it away if you must, but it sounds like your gun has been used and enjoyed. If it's a money thing sell it and regroup your money. If not, shoot it and enjoy it and care for it so it can be passed on. But please, not as a fraud.

 

[LongColt45]

My Final Answer

I have elected not to refinish this Pre-29 at this time.

While being highly cognizant of the value that original condition provides for every vintage S&W firearm, as well as my role as a steward to retain any historical significance that could be associated with such weapons in my care, my criteria for making this decision goes beyond this rationale.

My research suggests that the ability to replicate 1950's era polishing and bluing with great (near 100%) accuracy is currently non-existent. If such a service were available, it would certainly change the equation for me.

The metal surfaces on the gun in question are undamaged, with no noticeable scratches or dings. The polish is almost mirror like. The 90% - 95% bluing on this weapon has a hue that is more blue than black, especially in direct sunlight.

The bottom line is that this revolver gives me much pleasure in it's current condition. It therefor stands to reason that it will give someone else similar enjoyment when it becomes time to pass it along.

When I am ready to experience pleasure of a pristine specimen of a Pre-Model 29, Pre-Model 27, Registered Magnum, etc., I accept that I will have to cough up the exorbitant price of ownership that such handguns now command.

I will also at least investigate as thoroughly as possible the capabilities of Glenrock Bluing, just to keep my options open.

In the interim, I will shoot and care for this one as best I can.

Thanks for all the great advice and opinions, guys!
LongColt

 

[chief38]

REFINISHING A GUN DOES NOT ALWAYS DEGRADE IT!

I have certainly not refinished a lot of guns but I did have a few done. When I "hung up my spurs" after 20 years and stopped shooting cowboy action matches my two Colt SAA's blued finishes were beat up to say the least. Most guys who participated in SASS matches used Rugers, Umburties, etc. and kept their Colts in the safe at home. I bought the Colts to shoot and enjoy which I certainly did!

About 5 or 6 years ago I brought them up to Colt and had them refinished with the Royal Blue as they had left the Factory in the 80's with. I have to say that Colt did an OUTSTANDING job on them and they now look better than they did when new! Since I will NEVER sell them I could care less if I "devalued" them but to me I have NEVER regretted re-doing them and would do so again in a heart beat. Looking at the beat up finishes pained me much more than a factory refinish They now are my pride and joy and yes I still shoot them. Not that I really have to explain myself, but they WERE refinished by Colt.

The other gun I had refinished was a Lever gun that I inherited. The bluing was so far gone off the barrel, magazine tube and lever that it was a full time job keeping them from turning brown. Again, since I will NEVER sell it I sent it to MGW and they also did a SUPERB reblue on it. While the gun was out being refinished I refinished the stock and fore-end myself. The finish that was originally there was flaking off and I did not want a beautiful reblued action in a beat up stock. I gently sanded the wood, repaired any faults and put about 10 coats of 100% Tung Oil on it. When the action came back I reassembled it and have been a very happy camper ever since. BTW the Rifle was made in 1946.

So there are my refinishes. Personally I do not like owning beat up guns but sometimes when they are used every week, shot tens and tens of thousands of times and do get ugly. Since these guns are NOT investments but for pure enjoyment I am not concerned in what the "experts" say, and when I am gone at least my kids will have some nice guns to hand down to their kids (assuming guns are not out-lawed).

If I purchased a S&W Registered Magnum, a SAA that belonged to Wyatt Earp, a gun used in WWl or WWll then I would NEVER have it refinished as I do consider them to be "Historical Pieces". So that is my personal opinion and while others may not agree, it's a choice that each individual has to make.

 

[chief38]

PS: I would NEVER purposely purchase a gun with the idea of refinishing it. I would be willing to pay more and get one in acceptable to me finish.

 

[gmborkovic]

First off, nobody can restore a S&W to just left the factory condition.
Aint going to happen. This reminds me of my neighbor that took a year to paint a 1954 Corvette. Forty coats of lacquer is a bit ridiculous. It sits under a car cover in a garage. Enjoy.