What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?

[jaymoore]

In actual fact my first couple of rounds currently loaded are duplex loads of #4 birdshot and BB shot. Factory Remington loads (MRP12S BBX4). But #8s or 7 1/2s at room distance would do as well or better. Mostly because they are still a seething mass 'o destruction at that distance. Not really separate shot at all.

But for any kind of distance beyond "inside the house" they aren't so good.

 

[mgriffin]

Federal LE Flight Control 12ga. 00 Buck from my Beretta 1301 Tactical. At 10 yards this stuff still holds a pattern not much bigger than your fist.

 

[one eye joe]

I WOULD CHOOSE THE 2 3/4" SHELL, LOADED WITH #00 BUCK.....

I CAN'T IMAGINE A SCENARIO--THAT WOULD BE JUDGED IN A COURT AS DEFENSIVE-- WHEREIN A SLUG WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LOAD.........

 

[forrestinmathews]

Setting it up? First shot? No, I wouldn't suggest anything fancy. Just load 'er up with 00 Buck. If for some reason you need to take a longer shot, like 50 yards, do a "select slug" reload and put a slug in there. Otherwise, every defensive shell is 00 Buck.

I'm taking the first shot as a 3" shell for free as far as capacity is concerned. I'm not going to make the gun less handy by the addition of a side saddle for extra shells, so capacity is important. My first shot is unique; it is my opportunity to make a decisive action at this point, so I want to make the most of that. If I could somehow get a 3½" first shot, I would seriously consider it; especially since it is the equivalent to having fired the gun twice with OO Buck.

It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .

There is a very, very slim chance that a game bird or turkey is going to break into my home or accost me in such a way as to demand shooting it in self defense. As such, there is no way in hell that I will ever be loading a defensive shotgun with fine shot. Folks that want to take that chance are welcome to, but I'd request that we confine our discussions of shells loaded to buckshot or slugs please.

I agree with 00 Buck.
I don't think a 50 yard hit with a slug is possible, unless there are 10-12 folks shooting at the same target.
But hey, I was pretty good with a M-79 Grenade Launcher. (Blooper) So just maybe........

Perhaps you need to visit Tarhunt.com. There was at one time a very good discussion about the accuracy and limitations of slugs to be found there. It talked about the major limitation of the slug being the lack of stability at or beyond the transonic point which occurred at 125-150 yards for Foster slugs typically. The 50yard trajectory of a slug is stable out of most smoothbores that have not been "back-bored" to almost boring regularity. The biggest limitations are often a lack of sights and more often an operator who is incapable of finding or maintaining a repeatable hold.

 

[Rastoff]

I CAN'T IMAGINE A SCENARIO--THAT WOULD BE JUDGED IN A COURT AS DEFENSIVE-- WHEREIN A SLUG WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LOAD.........

So, using a slug on a bad guy who's inside your house isn't self-defense?

I'm taking the first shot as a 3" shell for free as far as capacity is concerned.

I don't like having different loads in a self-defense gun. The reason is, if the first shot misses, I probably want the second shot to be the same load. And, I probably want that second shot to be just as powerful/effective as the first under any circumstances.

Then, what if there are two bad guys? Wouldn't you want the same stopping power for the second guy? So, I say, load full up with whatever you decide is the right first round.


The shotgun is a capacity deficient tool. At best you're looking at 8 rounds and most of us have less. Shotguns like the Saiga are not common and quite difficult to wield. The KSG is the best for capacity.

A side saddle really isn't a problem, but I don't like the extra stuff either. In the unlikely event that you might need a slug, I'd go with this shell holder:

It's one way to get that extra round without being too interfering.

Also, one must pick the right gun. Any shotgun will do, but a regular hunting gun with a 28" barrel is difficult to maneuver in the house. If you're doing it correctly, letting the bad guy come to you, length is less of an issue. I like this one for home defense:

Not expensive and holds 8 rounds. The sights are effective, but don't limit your field of view. This is a very reliable gun when properly maintained. I've fired Trap loads to full power (1400FPS) 00 Buck without ever failing to cycle.

So, get the right gun. Load it with all the same loads to reduce confusion. More importantly, have your fist and second lines of defense in place so they don't get in your house in the first place.

 

[Ozark Marine]

I bought the shockwave for the fun of having a legal "sawed off" size shotgun and it's nice to have that maneuverable "firearm" in my Mustang GT if I ever do need 00 Buck to get me home.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?

 

[forrestinmathews]

I don't like having different loads in a self-defense gun. The reason is, if the first shot misses, I probably want the second shot to be the same load. And, I probably want that second shot to be just as powerful/effective as the first under any circumstances.
Then, what if there are two bad guys? Wouldn't you want the same stopping power for the second guy? So, I say, load full up with whatever you decide is the right first round.
The shotgun is a capacity deficient tool. At best you're looking at 8 rounds and most of us have less.
A side saddle really isn't a problem, but I don't like the extra stuff either.

I don't honestly see a marked difference between the first shot and second shot in my setup. I just tried something and found I can change that last two shells in the magazine out for 3" and suffer no loss to capacity. That's a lucky discovery indeed. I guess I'm set for several bad guys now...
The trade off of capacity for handling is tangible. I have a side saddle on a shotgun and in this case the balance point is obstructed, the with is doubled, and it defeats the purpose of this platform. The match saver is a great idea for matches. I don't want one to put on a defense gun anymore than I would ghost load a defensive Benelli.

 

[kraynky]

My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?

Because deep down in your mind, you think you're not supposed to have it, so you want it! Right? I've had a Mossberg 500 18" shotgun by my bed for probably 25 years. I eventually took the pistol grip off because "old Arthur" is creeping into my hands, and it's not as much fun on the range as it used to be. I've struggled with this same question for years, but never asked it. I think that within the range that I would be shooting it (if ever used for defense), any of the buckshot loads would settle things down quickly.

I used to have a cartridge sling attached to it full of shells. But the darn thing was so heavy I wised up and removed it, plus it could easily snag on a door knob or something at the wrong time. I have 5 rounds in it, which should be plenty, even if it was birdshot.

Anyone that thinks that's not enough, should take some water filled jugs to the range and unload some #7's on it from 15' and then see if penetrates, or disrupts the jugs evil intentions.

 

[Ozark Marine]

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?

Because the Shockwave is cool and you can.
I'm really enjoying mine.

 

[cadmike]

00 buck.

Just because my dad told me so. As my age increases I've come to realize his advice is usually spot on.

Also, guns work because they penetrate. Underpenetration is more of a concern for me than the opposite.

I had a bad dream once where the bad guy was coming at me, I kept shooting him but the hits had no effect...and he kept coming...

 

[forrestinmathews]

Because deep down in your mind, you think you're not supposed to have it, so you want it! Right?

Anyone that thinks that's not enough, should take some water filled jugs to the range and unload some #7's on it from 15' and then see if penetrates, or disrupts the jugs evil intentions.

Of course that's the reason we all wanted one.

It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7½'s. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, I don't know why, but I didn't realize we were talking about a shotgun with no stock.

I love guns, all guns. This is not something I'd use for home defense though.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?

 

[fdw]

I load mine with number 4 buck exclusively.

me too....

 

[Ozark Marine]

I just wedge it gently between the passenger seat and center console in my Mustang. Put a old shirt on the bird head grip and it disappears.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?

So I bevelled the loading port on my Shockwave and took all the take up out of the trigger. I applied loctite releasable to the stock screw since there was none and I intend to shoot the hell out of this gun. I used this synthetic two point sling that's rapidly adjustable from pretty taut to loose enough to sling the gun over a shoulder. I've been carrying the gun in the vehicle when I travel, when I walk around my property checking things and I keep it close in the house in the evening. I don't do permanent guns in vehicles overnight. Another explanation avoided. It can be easily covered by a windbreaker or hoodie and still be available. Another favorite is a dark colored towel to cover short long guns. Nobody sees it right there in plain sight. I find it really handy and it's very easily moved in and out of places even in daylight. Currently running​ 3x3" OOB and 3x2¾" OB because I can and I have 3x2¾" OB and 3x2¾" ⅞ oz. slug in the caddy. I feel like it's a decent blend of simple and effective.

 

[Rastoff]

I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it...

The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.

 

[Ozark Marine]

Rastoff have you fired a Shockwave yet?
I have and it isn't like my Mossberg 500 pistol gripped Cruiser was before I installed a M-4 style telescoping butt stock on it.
With the bird's head grip the recoil is not bad at all with 2 3/4' 00 buck shot.
Try it I think you'll like it.

 

[forrestinmathews]

The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.

So I guess I'm hard headed, but this thing is fun to play with and shoot. I'm making time to shoot this because​ it's so much fun. It's a bit of a ride with buckshot, but it's devastating. With electronic muffs it's very feasible to shoot almost anytime. I have the option to shoot on my property day or night so I practice. The biggest thing I have learned, is how big the pattern ISN'T. Folks are talking about Federal Flitecontrol wads holding an eight inch pattern at 35 yards and I'm thinking, how about 8" at 8 yds? Or maybe 4"? A rifled choke tube would be nice in some cases.