What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?

[RETOKSQUID]

My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave?

The warm fuzzy one gets telling the powers that be to......

 

[BearBio]

"It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7½'s. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived."

Fifty one years ago, I took my first Hunter Safety Course, taught by Long Beach (CA) Police. They showed us a coroner's photo of a kid who didn't clear his action before crossing a fence. He was sitting crying next to his buddy. You could, literally, see the grass on the other side of the wound. They were hunting quail with 7 1/2 or 8 shot, low base.

 

[forrestinmathews]

"It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7½'s. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived."

Fifty one years ago, I took my first Hunter Safety Course, taught by Long Beach (CA) Police. They showed us a coroner's photo of a kid who didn't clear his action before crossing a fence. He was sitting crying next to his buddy. You could, literally, see the grass on the other side of the wound. They were hunting quail with 7 1/2 or 8 shot, low base.

You realize that you're equating the defensive suitability of birdshot with a fatal wound sustained in an accidental shooting at nearly muzzle contact distance? There are so many differences​ between the two things. I'm not going to get through to the tacticool bird hunters, but Heaven help me to try. There is no adrenaline involved in the accidental shooting. There is plenty of adrenaline involved in a defensive shooting. So we can safely the individual getting shot will be affected differently. Shock onset will​ occur later for the adrenaline charged individual. Surely we should use a load that will affect the onset of shock sooner than later and that isn't bird shot. I'm sorry but there is no intelligent argument for bird shot for serious self defense. There are too many variables involved that it comes up suboptimal for dealing with.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I took a few moments this afternoon to shoot a few patterns. I started off with Winchester Super X 3" #1 Buck 24 pellets at 1040 fps. 22 pellets hit the torso and head of an idpa target at fifteen yards. I continued on with Federal Premium 3"OOO Buck 10 pellets at 1225 fps. 9 pellets​ hit the target at fifteen yards on the torso. What happened next was spectacular. I fired the Federal Classic or Power Shok 3" #4 Buck 41 pellets at 1210 fps. This load recoiled in a severe manner. To be honest my hands were a little sweaty and it slipped and I got nicked by the safety. It still woke me up quite a bit. I didn't bother to count the holes. There was no patching the target after that wad ripped it up. I field dressed my boo boo with TP and continued on. My last load tested was the Winchester Double X High Velocity OO Buck 3" 12 pellet load at 1450 fps. 9 or maybe 10 pellets hit the torso high and some might have leaked through the giant wad hole courtesy of the #4 Buck. Between sweating, boo boo, and a trashed target I called it a day. I found two really nice patterns though. The #1 and 000 were stellar in the 3". I really appreciate the lack of noise in the #1 and the pattern was very solid in the 000 having the potential to be useful even further out. The #4 and 00 Buck loads seem a bit blown out by their wads which were fifteen yards beyond the target.
I have removed, bevelled the sides of and reinstalled the safety. This should eliminate any further boo boos. They​ really could have done some simple bevelling on these guns and alleviated a little bit of operator discomfort.

 

[Protected One]

Based on my limited testing, I vote: None of the above.

That is NOT a good pattern....at only 10 yards!

 

[BE Mike]

That is NOT a good pattern....at only 10 yards!

Well sir. The lower right hole is the wad. That makes it a 10" pattern. Not great, but good. There are only six 00 pellets in this load and recoil is negligible. Hornady Critical Defense patterns much better, but there is a trade-off in increased recoil.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.

I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Well today I shot a couple of slugs and buckshot from the Shockwave. Winchester one ounce and Remington 7/8 ounce slugs and the 25 round boxes of 00 Buck from Walmart. I shot the last of the hellacious #4 Buck 3" magnum Federal up also. I have some tactical brawler gloves with padded palms and I wore them and it still was annoying. I ended up with a super hot gun and a smile on my face.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.

Exactly my thinking too. If I can't shoot it for pleasure or find a good use for it, it's gone. I feel guilty having a lot of money tied up in guns that just sit. I'm not one of those that says "look what I got" and never shoots it.

I shot a Shockwave today. Not bad. Make a good home gun. Local dealer has 10 in stock. He put one aside for me.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I get that, and have acquired quite a lot of guns on that basis alone. But with so many guns not doing a lot other than holding down the safe to the floor, buying guns based on tasks or utility is the buying mode I've drifted into. That's what made the Shockwave an immediate I'm getting one purchase for me.

This ^ ^ ^

Truck gun, but not permanently. My Kel Tec Sub2000 fills the permanent niche nicely. This would be a "hey, oughta take that with me today" gun . . .

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Been cruising the Net reading about different 12ga ammo offerings and ran across this article.
What do you guys think about this Federal #1 buckshot?

According to the article...
Meets FBI penetrations standards.
Tight pattern
Less punishing to shoot.

The Box O' Truth #56 - Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot - The Box O' Truth

 

[Kanewpadle]

I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.

#1 Buck is supposed to be .30 cal.

The best patterns I have seen so far have been from #1 Buck and 000 Buck in the 3". It stands to reason that #1 Buck is a good choice in a 2¾" shell. With or without the light recoil loading I'd use it. It appears to be the slowest shot of all the loadings but if it penetrates, do it.

Just make sure that the Flitecontrol has a pattern you can use at whatever practical distances you intend.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.

It sure looks like a heavy load.

I looked up the weight of #1 and it shows to be 40.5 grains. 15 pellets would be 607 grains. Federal has the same velocity rated type low recoil 00 with 8 pellets at 53.8 grains = 430 grains. #1 at near an ounce and a half is considerably heavier than the bird shot, target, slugs and 9 pellet 00 I have. #4 typically has 27 pellets which would still be considerably lighter than this #1 load. Wonder why #1 so heavy in this ? I have little knowledge of 12ga ammo. Learn me.

 

[forrestinmathews]

It sure looks like a heavy load.

I looked up the weight of #1 and it shows to be 40.5 grains. 15 pellets would be 607 grains. Federal has the same velocity rated type low recoil 00 with 8 pellets at 53.8 grains = 430 grains. #1 at near an ounce and a half is considerably heavier than the bird shot, target, slugs and 9 pellet 00 I have. What's up with #1 being so heavy in this "low recoil" load... what am I missing?

Typical #1 load is 16 pellets in 2¾" at 1250 and this one is 15 and it's slow. My favorite 3" #1 load is 21 pellets and no flight control at 1040 fps. It's quite manageable. As long as it's not #4 Buck you'll be okay. As my experience has shown, the 3" #4 Buck is nasty and the 2¾ ⅞ oz slugs are the heaviest recoiling. I have not shot a 3" slug yet and have no intention to.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Today I broke down and picked up some more shells to play with. I got a box of the Winchester PDX Buck and slug loads. I also was talked into the 8 pellet Hornady Critical Defense load at another small shop. That stuff is trucking at 1600fps but we will see if the pattern is blown out or not. I have pretty much given up on anything that isn't possible to get locally. Which means Federal Flight control is out. Winchester 3" #1Buck is available at Walmart as is the Federal Premium 3" 00 Buck and maybe 000 Buck.

I have decided to go with the 3" 000 Buck first for it's great pattern and then three 3" 00 Buck and two 2¾" magnum 00 Buck because that is the most pellets I could stack in the tube without losing the third 3" shell. All are Federal Premium shells until I find something I like better and can convince myself that the Winchester #1 Buck is penetrating well enough.

 

[forrestinmathews]

So I tested Shockwave #2 this afternoon with a lady shooter to see how she liked it. I learned that the mini shells have a market for a reason. Recoil management is crucial with these. We were working with Winchester Featherlights and discovered that indexing this platform is difficult for newer shooters to the pump platform. She was able to pick it up fairly quickly though. I fired one round of that stuff and it was almost imperceptible recoil compared to the 2¾" #1 Buck I was playing with. I'm in love with the Winchester #1 Buck loads in these guns. I think they are moderate on recoil and pattern well downrange. I didn't test the 3" loads in this gun yet nor did I test the new arrival buckshots.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I would use it. But only with the flite control wad.

A 33 grain pellet at .287 inches traveling at 1100 fps isn't the greatest. But when you consider 15 of them and the pattern, it should do well.

A thought occurred to me that they may be running the same pellets from their #2 Buck 20 gauge load in their #1 Buck 12 gauge load...

After quite a bit of reading of reviews and videos I have discovered that the Federal 13200 load is amazing​ in it's patterns. The reduced recoil version of Flitecontrol​ are turning in wonderful patterns out to fifty yards from cylinder bore guns. I'm curious about the #1 Buck reduced recoil in that I heard it had a lovable habit of not donut holing its patterns at distance. So I have a bit of it coming from a vendor.
I may try to pick up some of the 13200 00 Buck locally, however it appears to be almost too tight for the practical ranges. Has anyone shot this load in a Shockwave?
One of my applications needs to be a load optimized for a maximum of 15 yards for a small statured shooter. The longest shot in the place is 16 yards from the bedroom to the front door. I have found the #1 Winchester 2¾" to be the best pattern or at least on par with its 3" brother, but the Federal could possibly have less recoil and that is appealing even if the pattern becomes tighter. I'm up in the air whether or not I need slug like accuracy in close with this application. There are only two occupants in the dwelling and it has 24 hour floor illumination for safe navigation during hours of darkness which is incredibly effective for target identification.
My other application is far more flexible and I have stuck with the 3" 000 followed by three 3" 00 Buck and two 2¾" 00 Buck magnum loads. I'm getting pretty good pattern and range out of the first round and then it's followed by an all around loading for three and then the last two are maximum pellet counts in 00 Buck with the space remaining.

 

[USAF385]

All of my shotguns get the same thing... first shell or two: buck and slug

 

[forrestinmathews]

All of my shotguns get the same thing... first shell or two: buck and slug

There's nothing like being specific...LOL...and he didn't even vote in the poll.
Only a few dozen types of slugs and buckshot.

I really was trying to tap into what I had supposed a reserve of knowledge. I figured everyone that had one of these cool little guns would be playing with it. I've sure relearned a lot about buckshot that I had forgotten​. I was a total choke junkie and had gravitated to premium offerings from Remington and Federal. Remington is out of the premium buckshot game, but it was the best offering in a 2¾" through a pattern master in a Remington or Benelli. Federal Premium 3½" 00 Buck was my go to for the Mossberg with it's oversize barrel through both constriction and wad retarding chokes. They had discontinued the #1 Buck 3½" load by the time I was big enough for 3½". It was a phenomenal load out to 100 yards according to a several hunters. Anyway little gun doesn't have any choke so it's playtime all over again in search of some go to loads. The funny part to me is I never really cared for the Winchester buckshot, but that's changed too.

So if you happen to play with your Shockwave or something of similar barrel length and get some data I'm all ears and highly appreciative. Also feel free to vote in the poll and if your option isn't there and reasonable for self defense please post about it.