There is considered thought. Then there is wishful thinking.
Pick one.
Ralph Tremaine
Pick one.
Ralph Tremaine
Opinions on Welded Frames
- Thread starter younggun22
- Start date
flagman1776
Member
Almost anything can be fixed if you want to badly enough... but that said, the gun in question has been messed with repeatedly. It's collector value is trashed. The cost of repair exceeds the value of the piece... by far! If repaired / rebuilt it's value would never be enough to recoupe the costs. If it could be bought at salvage value, the equation would be different. My advise would be to make a salvage value offer or walk away. You can buy an intact piece (for twice the money) and you'll come out ahead.
DWalt
Member
"The pre-ware magnas seem to be in OK condition, but looks like they will probably need to be sent off to Paul (DWFan) "
That would make them look better but is also likely to make them worth less (unless they are basket cases to start with). Like many others, I wouldn't be interested in paying much more than a giveaway price for it, basically whatever it's worth if parted out.
That would make them look better but is also likely to make them worth less (unless they are basket cases to start with). Like many others, I wouldn't be interested in paying much more than a giveaway price for it, basically whatever it's worth if parted out.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Being a "master welder" lol I realize that the metallurgy changes at 400 degrees F. Using a heat sink is kind of out dated for what was done. There's a heat barrier putty that's been out for decades. Run forest run unless you want a wall hanger.
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DWalt
Member
I don't know what welding would do to the strength of a frame back then. I don't believe guns were heat treated during manufacture when that TL's frame was made, nor what steel alloys were used. If low carbon steel, it couldn't have been heat treated anyway.
OP
Well it looks like I will be passing on that TL as the seller is firm on his price. I have the sneaking suspicion that I just saved myself a bunch of headaches and money.
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
You saved yourself from being possibly hurt too. Good thinking on your part. I deceided it's only paper money. I save up a tad more and stay looking.
OP
I have a nice triple lock already but I liked the idea of saving one from the scrap heap!
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I saw it too, but passed.
You really did the right thing.
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True that it would not have been heat treated originally, but after welding it WILL have weld induced stress.This could be dealt with by heating the frame up to around 900 f, holding it there for a period of time (dependent on thickness)and then slowly cooling it over a period of about 12 or more hours. If the gun was used to fire rounds in the 14000k range as originally designed it probably wouldn't matter one way or the other.
Plus, low carbon steel can and is often heat treated. It will not harden to any degree, but there is a LOT more to heat treating than hardening to form martensite. Harding is only one type or procedure of heat treatment, annealing and stress relieving, resetting the grain and tempering are other types of heat treat. There is a lot of low carbon welded pressure piping that gets stress relieved.
It is my belief that one of the refinements in S&W heat treatment had to be a step to reset the grain after forging. Forging needs to occur at temps over 1600 f and that kind of temperature will cause grain growth. Larger grain structure is more brittle than smaller grain structure.
A hardening and tempering cycle without resetting the grain would result in a inferior steel structure. S&W frames and cylinders are not hard. Actually about the same hardness as mild steel. It is all in how they got to that hardness. Soft fine grained martensite is way tougher than soft pearlite. Tough and hard are not tthe same either. Hardly.
Forged in fire is an interesting show, but they never show or discuss resetting the grain or the tempering cycle. Any blade made without these steps is going to suffer failure. Without tempering they would all break on impact testing. A fully hardened blade before tempering will often shatter just dropping it on the floor. I once had a piece snap just sitting it down on an anvil.
There are tons of myths, misunderstandings, etc about steel, its properties and especially about heat treatment.
Here is one. File steel is brittle. LOL, same steel is used to make cable like used on cranes. Difference? Heat treatment.
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Wisdom is not something we're born with. To become wise, we have to process all the knowledge we pick up along the road of life. My journey isn't over yet....
Mark
Aircrewman
Member
Ever notice how everything that's desirable to buy, collect or otherwise want, and has been repaired, has always been described as having been done by "a master" (fill in appropriate title)?
Anyone ever buy something repaired by an "adequate" craftsman? Or even "a guy who said he 'thinks' he'll take a crack at it?"
Me neither.....
Anyone ever buy something repaired by an "adequate" craftsman? Or even "a guy who said he 'thinks' he'll take a crack at it?"
Me neither.....
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