What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?

[jeeps]

Just say no to any pistol grip shotgun,get a 18" barrel with a stock if you want useful protection in a shotgun. The shockwave is a boy toy.

 

[nachogrande]

6" WAD

Having hunted half of my life with buckshot...you'd be surprised to learn how close the gun has to be for the wad to penetrate. About six inches to muzzle contact distance. Beyond that it tends to just hang in the entrance wound.

R-U shooting blanks? I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360". Stuff happens so I don't doubt you have experienced that. I agree wholeheartedly with the full stock being more accurate/controllable, and less maneuverable, BUT they take up more room, & are harder to conceal. Hopefully that's why people are using them & not cuz they are tacticool.

 

[shinbone]

It's a hallway gun. #8 will do the job. Everything else is just bar talk . . .

+1

Shooting Illustrated | Buckshot vs. Birdshot for Home Defense

And if #8 isn't enough, there are lots of option between #8 and 00. At self-defense ranges inside the typical home, 00 has way more penetration than needed. A hunting load is an ounce or more of lead at 1200fps muzzle velocity hitting at 5yds, 7rds, 10yds in a home scenario. #6's, #5's, #4's are going to turn any body part in its path into hamburger. No way is a perp getting up after that. And all while minimizing the risk of killing the neighbor next door, or the same for a family member in the next room.

JMHO



.

 

[nachogrande]

"NO PERP IS GETTING UP AFTER THAT"

Despite report after report to the contrary, blanket statements like these still exist. There's no such thing as a GUARENTEED one shot stop. Perps take multiple hits all the time from much bigger/faster projectiles than birdshot. Just ask Rapper Fiddy cent. TOO much gun for defending your life???

 

[Rastoff]

I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360".

A wad make holes in plywood? From 10 yards? Then why are we loading shot or slugs in our guns at all? I've seen a lot of shotguns patterned on paper and cardboard. I've seen the wad make holes in both of those at 13 yards. I've seen plenty of shotgun shots at plywood, but I've never seen a wad put a hole in plywood by itself.

There's no such thing as a GUARENTEED one shot stop. Perps take multiple hits all the time from much bigger/faster projectiles than birdshot.

Exactly right. And this is why trusting your life to bird shot is...well...not advised. Use the largest, most destructive load you can effectively place on target. Could #8 stop someone? Well, I guess, but I'm sticking with a real load for self-defense.

Actually, I don't understand why anyone would even do that. What's the reasoning? They don't recoil less.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Capstick related how he killed an African lion with a low-base load of #8 at close range.

Capstick is notorious for being a hero of his own stories. Remember the time he went to followup on a leopard and had an unloaded shotgun?

Has anyone tried Aguila Minishells 1 3/4". You can get Slugs, Buckshot( 7 #4 buck 4#1buck 5/8oz @1200fps), 7.5 birdshot. You can get 8 rounds in the Shockwave. About 50% less recoil, pure fun! The problem is finding them and the high price. With s/h i paid over a $1. a round. Neat idea for close in work. You need a Mini-clip to made them work in a Shockwave. The rubber clip is made in Texas (www.OPSolmini-clip.co

Yes I tried some of the buckshot yesterday with the clip, see my post above. It is the first pattern. I'm not certain if they are really worth the extra effort to procure. You can get the reduced recoil buckshot loads and be money ahead I think. If and when they become readily available I may look at getting some more of the buckshot. The 7½'s are a waste as you can buy Winchester Low Recoil Low Noise and even at $10 a box you get more shells, more shot and less recoil. I found this to be oddly true.

Where did you get it?

Anyone here do business with these people? $78/100 delivered. Find it cheaper?

Federal 12 Gauge Tactical LE1321B 2-3/4" Reduced Recoil 1 Buckshot 15 Pellets 50 rounds

SGA Ammo is where I got mine. They are all sold out. Shocking as they had a bunch in stock when I bought it. To the tune of 8 cases of 250 and a couple of 50's and some loose boxes. Somebody somewhere equipped for #1 Buck is all I can think.

R-U shooting blanks? I've seen wads make holes in plywood numerous times from 10 yards/360". Stuff happens so I don't doubt you have experienced that.

I was referring to penetration on deer. Most of the times I had was penetration it was on finishing shots on deer with a shotgun. One season I failed to ensure my gun had a full choke installed for deer season and instead hunted all season with improved cylinder. I learned a lot about moving and shooting and also about reloading in a hurry. Wads were bouncing off at five yards and often times as you got closer you would have hang up on the front side, but you needed to be very close. The only time it fully penetrated was when the gun was nearly muzzle contact distance for a finishing shot and the wad was protruding out the far side of the head slightly. Some of the high velocity Flitecontrol offerings may have the speed to achieve penetration, but I don't believe a conventional petal shot cup does.

 

[Gamecock]

Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration, hence you can't have "too much" penetration.

Ipso facto, save the birdshot for birds, #1 buck for coyotes. Double-ought buck all the time.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration, hence you can't have "too much" penetration.

Ipso facto, save the birdshot for birds, #1 buck for coyotes. Double-ought buck all the time.

Well I've used the term tacticool birdhunter and it would appear I have been coined a tacticool varminter for my affection for #1 Buck. Haha Splendid! Glad someone else has a sense of humor. What about 000 Buck? Is that over kill? Does it give me another tacticool title? LOL

 

[Lt JL]

I spent most of my life depending on #00 buck in 2 3/4" loads in a 870. I bought a Shock wave as a car/truck gun. Found a scabbard on ebay. I can wield it out my passenger or driver side window. My old 870 has a side saddle full of slugs. I put the slugs in the molle slots on the scabbard. I don't know what a cop would say, as in Ohio, there is no regulation of these "firearms" yet. My arguement will be It's covered by my ccw; it's just a big handgun. Don't know. Haven'y been stopped.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I ended up finding a case of LE1321B for cheap and getting that. I'm pretty much all #1 Buck at this point. It was fun stretching the magazine capacity to fit all the 3" 000 Buck P158000, but the gun was a bit heavier than it is with the LE1321B fully loaded. I notice it when I carry it around and it is pronouncedly nimbler. I have had to reexamine the whole idea of the super tight patterns up close. I am looking at it like this: If I need it, I have a shell caddy full of XB1231 3" #1 Buck. That load will open up and to a beautiful pattern beyond ten and remain full, but spready out to thirty yards.

 

[Gamecock]

That load will open up and to a beautiful pattern beyond ten and remain full, but spready out to thirty yards.

But it still won't penetrate adequately. Pattern gets you nothing.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

In regard to #1 penetration, here are some excerpts from a lengthy article about home defense shotgun ammo.

This 12 inch minimum penetration performance guideline is meant to ensure that the bullet has adequate penetration potential to reach and disrupt vital organs. The 12 inch standard is the prevailing barometer used by the F.B.I.

The Firearms Tactical Institute reports:

"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body."


-----------

Home Defense Shotgun Ammo

 

[crazyphil]

I was going to say what Alaskavet already said. The circumstances
dictate what load you would carry. We have the big brown bears
(Grizzly) in all the states bordering Yellowstone, so I would consider
the 1 oz. slug the best first, second, third, etc. etc.

 

[Gamecock]

"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances."

I prefer some margin, in case the perp is wearing clothes.

 

[forrestinmathews]

But it still won't penetrate adequately. Pattern gets you nothing.

First, hits on target are everything. Tell me more about the heavy penetrating fliers in your pattern and all the help they are. Secondly, I don't base my choices off ballistic gelatin. I know for a fact that 00 Buck fired at 1100 fps in a 3½" shell will penetrate a deer through both ribs at 70 yards. I know at 90-100 yds #4 Buck will not penetrate beyond hide nearside. I have seen #1 Buck penetrate beyond fifty yards for killing effect. No it's not glorious 00, but it does pattern well and make hits that count. 1500 fps of spread out energy. Some of those loads you don't have to aim at all by 20 yards.

I prefer some margin, in case the perp is wearing clothes.

If you are being accosted by a naked perp, slap yourself at least once to make sure you're not having a nightmare.
Naked perps respond best to 000 anyway.

 

[GeoJelly]

I've done lotsa reading about this - including this great thread - I've ordered some rubber pellet (Fiocchi LE) from Midway for my Shockwave for in-house use. I'm sure there are lots of arguments both ways - but I'll take my chances with the first round being non-lethal. I think it provides a better legal standing (I'm pure outhouse lawyer!) and I'm sure at across-the-room range that it'll put a hurt on anyone crashing into our place ...

 

[forrestinmathews]

I've done lotsa reading about this - including this great thread - I've ordered some rubber pellet (Fiocchi LE) from Midway for my Shockwave for in-house use. I'm sure there are lots of arguments both ways - but I'll take my chances with the first round being non-lethal. I think it provides a better legal standing (I'm pure outhouse lawyer!) and I'm sure at across-the-room range that it'll put a hurt on anyone crashing into our place ...

I can see the idea behind the less than lethal first shot. Have you considered following up with buckshot to keep your posterior out of a sling if your rubber judo pellets don't especially dissuade the affected persons? Also have you considered that you're still going to meet the standards for use of lethal force with your less than lethal loads? Have you considered the potential for a ricochet of one of these rounds making life interesting for you also? I considered this load, but I find a significant risk increase that I am unprepared to accept.

 

[Gamecock]

Naked perps respond best to 000 anyway.

I've got nothing against 000.

 

[BE Mike]

I've done lotsa reading about this - including this great thread - I've ordered some rubber pellet (Fiocchi LE) from Midway for my Shockwave for in-house use. I'm sure there are lots of arguments both ways - but I'll take my chances with the first round being non-lethal. I think it provides a better legal standing (I'm pure outhouse lawyer!) and I'm sure at across-the-room range that it'll put a hurt on anyone crashing into our place ...

I'm sure that Fiocchi makes quality ammo, but just for info., my buddy bought some less than lethal shotgun shells at a gun show. They were "loaded" with 1 rubber ball. We decided to try them out the same day that I was showing off my Remington 870 Gatekeeper II. He shot them out of his short barreled copy of the Winchester 1887 lever action 12 ga. (I believe his is Norinco). I wasn't favorably impressed with the quality of the gun, but I digress. None of the rubber balls shot ever made it out of the barrel. My point is beware of the "specialty" shotgun shells and if you shoot them, check the barrel for clear after each shot.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I removed a few posts here.

Stay on topic. Knock off the bickering.