Would you draw your weapon?

[TomkinsSP]

Here the law is probably similar. To be brief, a citizen can use force to detain a person he has reasonable articulable suspicion committed one of the Common Law Felonies (murder, manslaughter, mayhem (gotcha Allstate guy*), battery, rape, sodomy, burglary, larceny, robbery). Only so much force as necessary to detain until law enforcement arrives may be used. Deadly force can only be used to protect yourself or another innocent party in your presence from the ongoing commission of one of those crimes. ALSO the law pertaining to ADW states that you are committing an ADW if you INITIATE an assault while armed (other party initiates you don't have to let them choose weapons). Meaning if you punch FIRST while CCW you committ an ADW even if you KO the other party AND HE NEVER KNOWS YOU HAD A CW.
Not trying to be a jerk, its just that if you CCW, you need to know the law WHERE YOU LIVE as well as the likley interpretations the PD and DA will make. (And for all I know all of the other posters are completely in line with the law where THEY live.)
In the situation described I figure the idiot deserves anything he gets (I figure at least he is intentionally inflicting harm on others, possibly committing a simple assault if I read in a couple things not stated), he IS pissing in our Gene-pool, but would hate to see a CCW get the Goetz treatment. And hate to give 2d bashers more ammo for thier campaign.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Not sure if this changes anyone's mind. This happened in Nebraska. Prison escape is a class 1A felony, similar to second degree murder, arson, and kidnapping.

29-402.

Arrest by person not an officer.

Any person not an officer may, without warrant, arrest any person, if a petit larceny or a felony has been committed, and there is reasonable ground to believe the person arrested guilty of such offense, and may detain him until a legal warrant can be obtained.

29-742.

Arrest without warrant by officer or citizen; when.

The arrest of a person may be lawfully made also by any peace officer or a private person, without a warrant upon reasonable information that the accused stands charged in the courts of a state with a crime punishable by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, but when so arrested the accused must be taken before a judge or magistrate with all practicable speed and complaint must be made against him under oath setting forth the ground for the arrest as in section 29-741; and thereafter his answer shall be heard as if he had been arrested on a warrant.

I get the comments about not being a LEO so not jumping in. That answered my original question. Now that people are bringing up statutes, given the NE statutes above, is wearing prison garb, handcuffs and telling people you're an escapee "reasonable enough" suspicion of a felony (prison escape) to perform a citizen's arrest? If someone performs a citizen's arrest for a felony, can you detain the suspected BG at gunpoint until the police arrive? Didn't see anything in statutes about that.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Not sure if this changes anyone's mind. This happened in Nebraska. Prison escape is a class 1A felony, similar to second degree murder, arson, and kidnapping.


I get the comments about not being a LEO so not jumping in. That answered my original question. Now that people are bringing up statutes, given the NE statutes above, is wearing prison garb, handcuffs and telling people you're an escapee "reasonable enough" suspicion of a felony (prison escape) to perform a citizen's arrest? If someone performs a citizen's arrest for a felony, can you detain the suspected BG at gunpoint until the police arrive? Didn't see anything in statutes about that.

Sitting as a juror, since I am not a lawyer, it seems to me that anyone would be justified too use any amount of force reasonable to hold jumpsuit idiot for the LEOs. (Even had he not stated he was a felon, he is apparently a felon in NE.)

I did not know that the event happened in NE, howeve probably most of the posters on this forum don't live in NE (even if they secretly wished they did.) Maybe some of those places have similar laws, some don't and that's one of my two points.

I am not saying do nothing, do what you can without placing YOURS in jeopardy. And that in part depends on where you live. Remember too: many criminals work in teams, someone was filming this idiot, if they were really prison escapees #2 could have the 12ga he took off the guard they killed, (and jumpsuit idiot could have his Glock tucked in his waistband).

Play it smart, know the laws where you live, know how the PD and DA is likely to react, you can't protect your loved ones if you are awaiting acquittal in a show trial. It would suck if your mugshot was used on Michael Bloomberg's next letter soliciting funds to fight our 2d A rights. And it would truly suck if you spent junior's college fund on an attorney (and just let me say again I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.)

 

[Cortelli]

For those interested by this discussion, Andrew Branca's "The Law of Self Defense" is a great read and only $10 for a Kindle version.

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/Law-Self-Defense-3rd-ebook/dp/B01F9FAJBA/ref=pd_sim_351_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PR7S0DJSAHA152CND2H2[/ame]

 

[Smoke]

By being an escaped felon, they have met the parameters set forth in the above section of statutes.

He wasn't an escaped felon

How could you live with yourselves?

I could ask you the same question. How are you going to live with yourself when you find out you just killed an innocent man?

 

[Walkingwolf]

If your judgment is found not acceptable by a forum full of gun owners, probably most are conservative. Just what do you think a jury of regular people will vote concerning your guilt, or innocence in a use of force trial.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Looks like we're about done here. Good luck, everybody . . .

 

[PaulWVa]

There were no criminals or grand-standing people back then? What planet are you from?

Don't you remember the streaking craze?

I never felt threatened by a naked girl running by...but a dude in an orange jumpsuit, in hand cuffs ?? ...not much of a comparison if you ask me ...bit of a reach.

 

[steelslaver]

Only thing I would draw is my cell phone once I got out of the dummies sight. Now if the guy tried to follow me or came running towards me where I couldn't get away from him or block him from reaching me, he made a serious mistake. The very last thing I ever plan on is pretending to draw a gun I don't have. That could be more dangerous than dressing up in orange coveralls and handcuff.

Sometimes the gene pool gets mighty shallow.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Sitting as a juror, since I am not a lawyer, it seems to me that anyone would be justified too use any amount of force reasonable to hold jumpsuit idiot for the LEOs. (Even had he not stated he was a felon, he is apparently a felon in NE.)

I did not know that the event happened in NE, howeve probably most of the posters on this forum don't live in NE (even if they secretly wished they did.) Maybe some of those places have similar laws, some don't and that's one of my two points.

I am not saying do nothing, do what you can without placing YOURS in jeopardy. And that in part depends on where you live. Remember too: many criminals work in teams, someone was filming this idiot, if they were really prison escapees #2 could have the 12ga he took off the guard they killed, (and jumpsuit idiot could have his Glock tucked in his waistband).

Play it smart, know the laws where you live, know how the PD and DA is likely to react, you can't protect your loved ones if you are awaiting acquittal in a show trial. It would suck if your mugshot was used on Michael Bloomberg's next letter soliciting funds to fight our 2d A rights. And it would truly suck if you spent junior's college fund on an attorney (and just let me say again I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.)

Thanks for taking the time to put your response together. Great description of self defense related consequences when an action might be legal, but not wise.

 

[16thVACav]

Pulling your concealed weapon is a little like posting your opinion here on the Smith & Wesson Forum. You might think you are correct, and it would be legal to do so, but it just wouldn't be wise.

 

[The Big D]

Oh, my goodness!

Sure hope some of you (you know of whom I am speaking) don't leave your homes on Halloween or any other time when folks might be engaging in 'dress up' activities or frivolity. Yes, even when folks are doing dumb stuff.

I am now envisioning some of you helping the 'police' handcuff brides to be at bachelorette parties.

But, truth be told, most of us don't 'solve' every problem we might encounter...or think we encounter...by shooting someone.

Be safe.

 

[CH4]

Given your scenario, I would not! Unless there's an immediate threat of death or GBI, I'd call 911 and make the perfect witness.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Sure hope some of you (you know of whom I am speaking) don't leave your homes on Halloween or any other time when folks might be engaging in 'dress up' activities or frivolity. Yes, even when folks are doing dumb stuff.

We must have a way different sense of humor.

Having someone show up at a gas station that's wearing a prison jump suit, cuffed in front, saying they're an escapee, claiming to have a weapon, then aggressively demanding a ride from customers seems a lot more sinister than a frivolity at a bachelorette party.

For me, your idea of a good time seems closer to carjacking than to a party game.

 

[Mule Packer]

He wasn't an escaped felon

Uh...just how the heck were we supposed to know that? How were we supposed to know that "it was just for laughs?" I mean, he seemed pretty darn serious about needing a ride out of there. And just for the record, it's not Halloween. It's July, folks.

When a guy cinched up in handcuffs and wearing an orange jumpsuit with the words "Inmate" and "State Penitentiary" emblazoned in bold letters comes running up to me, yelling that he needs a ride out of there quick, there's a pretty good chance I won't be thinking that he's just trying to sell me a box of Girl Scout cookies.

Like the old saying, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck....it's probably a duck."

Let's face facts...the guy is an idiot.

I have to give the fellow credit who ordered this clown to get down on the ground with his hands out in front of him. That took an over abundance of guts, especially since he didn't have a firearm to back up his demands.

To tell you the truth, I don't know what I'd do if put in that situation. You really don't know until you're there. But you can "bet your bobsled" that if I ordered that bozo to get down on the ground, I'd sure as heck have a firearm handy to hedge my bets.

I'm not talking about going crazy and shooting this guy, but until someone proves differently, the guy appears to be an escaped convict because: a.) he's in prison garb, b.) he's handcuffed, c.) he's wildly approaching people and desperately trying to get a ride.

Normal people just don't do that. Whether he was an escaped convict or not, I think most of us here will agree that this nut is "a half bubble off plumb."

 

[Ray 146]

I live SIMPLE. "What if" does not exist. I was not there. UNTIL I AM, any answer I spew forth is hooey. Just my .02 cents worth.

 

[The Big D]

What?

Heard NO claim to have a weapon; heard ZERO aggression or demand.

Dude might be dumb, but if dumb people were regularly killed we likely would have a population shortfall...everywhere.

Be safe.

We must have a way different sense of humor.

Having someone show up at a gas station that's wearing a prison jump suit, cuffed in front, saying they're an escapee, claiming to have a weapon, then aggressively demanding a ride from customers seems a lot more sinister than a frivolity at a bachelorette party.

For me, your idea of a good time seems closer to carjacking than to a party game.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I would like to point out that yes this guy is an idiot.

However, I wonder if anyone stopped to think why an escaped felon in an orange jump suit and handcuffs would stop and ask anyone for help? I think not.

It is more likely that an escapee would be surreptitious in his efforts until he could force a lone person to "help" him continue his escape. It is highly unlikely that he would let himself be seen by the public let alone walk into a store and ask for help.

 

[Mule Packer]

I would like to point out that yes this guy is an idiot.

However, I wonder if anyone stopped to think why an escaped felon in an orange jump suit and handcuffs would stop and ask anyone for help? I think not.

It is more likely that an escapee would be surreptitious in his efforts until he could force a lone person to "help" him continue his escape. It is highly unlikely that he would let himself be seen by the public let alone walk into a store and ask for help.

True, but then we have to ask ourselves, why do felons do the things they do in the first place? Their minds have to be a little fouled up, to say the least.

That being the case, I probably wouldn't take the time to analyze why an escaped felon would be running around crazy trying to bum a ride. Who knows just what goes through their minds? I sure don't.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Heard NO claim to have a weapon; heard ZERO aggression or demand.

Dude might be dumb, but if dumb people were regularly killed we likely would have a population shortfall...everywhere.

Be safe.

In the OP, the quote in the link was "acting as if he had a gun" so I guess that's open to interpretation. The article said "harassing" customers for a ride.

This wasn't just a guy that showed up at a convenience store/gas station to buy a soda on the way home from a costume party who happened to be wearing an inmate costume.

This guy was intentionally trying to scare people at the convenience store by portraying himself as an armed, desperate prison escapee so they could capture peoples reaction for a YouTube video. The bozo called it a "social experiment."