Hickock 45

[Arik]

just the 229? just one of their models. while s&w was putting out about how many milled models at the same time in 1992? also, i heard that the model 52 went out of production because the milling machine that was involved in making it broke, and was too expensive to fix. if that is true indeed, i do not expect shields to stop being made because the molten plastic injector broke. all wors are fought over money, and all business are is about cost

What does one have to do with the other? If S&W found out they could fold paper and make that work with a 9mm id buy it! If it works who cares what the material is. It's irrelevant. Why does it instantly have to be made the biggest and heaviest? There's a reason I don't one 3rd gens. I don't see a point in carrying 3lbs for a 9mm when I can do the same with half the weight. Same for the 40 and 45. When a new caliber comes out and something needs to change then change it. In the same way I can say that S&W 3rd gen aren't strong enough to handle 44 magnum or anything in .50.

I heard, I heard. I heard doesn't work for me. There's lots of half truths and flat out lies about every gun manufacturer. I heard Beretta blew up in their gov testing but offered a base in Italy to the US government so that's how they got the contract! I heard .... I heard! Let's either state actual facts or not at all

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[digiroc]

Th Video ...

S&W 4006 TSW CHP - YouTube

I'm actually a big fan and subscribe to his channel, but I must admit I cringed watching him working over the slide release with a screwdriver. All I've ever needed was my finger to push it through to release.

digiroc

 

[Toblerra]

Before The Internet,You Tube and maybe PCs what was Hickock 45 doing when 1st,2nd and 3rd generation Smiths were being made?

Pre Polymer were You Tube celebrities of today pushing pencils or a broom someplace?

He was a school teacher.

 

[dswancutt]

I once owned a Performance Center 4006 years ago and I never grew fond of it. in fact, for me it was uncomfortable to shoot. (I am left handed) So, it was sold. I enjoy Hickock45's authenticity.
I will continue to enjoy his channel and respect his views. I don't have to like or agree with anyone just to learn something useful.

Exactly, guns do not fit everyone the same, crazy concept. I have a boatload of 3rd gen Smiths, but that sad fact is, the M&P full size line fits my hand better, which leads me to be more accurate with them, case closed. I'm not going to sell my collection of 3rd gen gun, In fact I would like to add the TSW models of the 4006 & 5906.

 

[dswancutt]

just the 229? just one of their models. while s&w was putting out about how many milled models at the same time in 1992? also, i heard that the model 52 went out of production because the milling machine that was involved in making it broke, and was too expensive to fix. if that is true indeed, i do not expect shields to stop being made because the molten plastic injector broke. all wors are fought over money, and all business are is about cost

An injection molding machine is a very different animal from a milling machine, especially one that was most likely custom built for the application. With an injection molding machine, you just change the molds and the material and go. You can go from making gun frames, cheap dinner plates to car parts all on the same machine.
With injection molding, all your costs are in the molds. I worked for the company that made the pull strap for all the Ford Ranger, Explorers etc in the 90's through the 2000's. In the late 90's, a 4 cavity mold for a simple handle like that was a over 100k, who knows what a complex mold for a gun would cost, plus you are going to have several of them.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I've watched his videos on occasion & have enjoyed him.

I was a revolver guy long before I became partial to the 3rd Gens relatively recently & was a little disappointed in his review.

One of his complaints was it didn't have a safety & it can't be carried "cocked & locked". Isn't that negated by the fact that it's a TDA, with a double action first trigger pull, that's ready to fired at any time?

Additionally he pointed out that the decocker lever springs back up, which he didn't like. He failed to mention, or didn't know, that the vast majority of 3rd Gens do not have that feature & that option was the way the CHP ordered them.

All the other TDA 3rd Gens have decockers levers (safeties) that will stay down which drops and blocks the hammer from hitting the firing pin, as well as also disconnecting the trigger engagement.

Additionally, with the decocker down, you can safely chamber & unchamber a live round completely assured that the pistol can not accidently be discharged, which for me, makes it a VERY safe semi-automatic pistol & would be the one I'd prefer to introduce a novice to for home protection.

.

 

[SOTVEN]

What does one have to do with the other? If S&W found out they could fold paper and make that work with a 9mm id buy it! If it works who cares what the material is. It's irrelevant. Why does it instantly have to be made the biggest and heaviest? There's a reason I don't one 3rd gens. I don't see a point in carrying 3lbs for a 9mm when I can do the same with half the weight. Same for the 40 and 45. When a new caliber comes out and something needs to change then change it. In the same way I can say that S&W 3rd gen aren't strong enough to handle 44 magnum or anything in .50.

I heard, I heard. I heard doesn't work for me. There's lots of half truths and flat out lies about every gun manufacturer. I heard Beretta blew up in their gov testing but offered a base in Italy to the US government so that's how they got the contract! I heard .... I heard! Let's either state actual facts or not at all

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so, in other words, you have seen for a fact lots of unsold 3rd gen pistols brand new in their boxes, stashed in the shelves of the stores all around, hence the demand has dropped. interesting!!!!. you heard correct about the beretta though! hence seals went with the runner up.

 

[SOTVEN]

What does one have to do with the other? If S&W found out they could fold paper and make that work with a 9mm id buy it! If it works who cares what the material is. It's irrelevant. Why does it instantly have to be made the biggest and heaviest? There's a reason I don't one 3rd gens. I don't see a point in carrying 3lbs for a 9mm when I can do the same with half the weight. Same for the 40 and 45. When a new caliber comes out and something needs to change then change it. In the same way I can say that S&W 3rd gen aren't strong enough to handle 44 magnum or anything in .50.
l

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the bigger heavier, makes sense when you have something producing pressure. hence the light sheetmetal sig was wearing out faster. hence the alloy frames wear out faster than steel frames. hence howitzers and naval guns do not have polymer or alloy frames. simple physics friend.

 

[SOTVEN]

Sig hasn't done stamped in a long time. The old German ones were stamped. They've been milled since being chambered in 40s&w. Started with the 228 in 40sw. Sig realized that the stamped metal slide didn't hold up well so they made a milled 228 which shortly after became the 229. Afterwards all other models went to milled.

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and that my friend, is called engineering! Not foreseeing the potential problems, bad engineering in my book. and in this forum you have people reaming 9mm barrels of 59xx and shooting 357 sig out of them.

 

[SOTVEN]

The British company, Tomkins plc sold S&W in 2001. It ad nothing to do with Clinton. Why stop making the 4506 and the 5906 (9mm) in 1999 but continue with the 4006 till 6 years ago.


The 4006 was produced till 2011. Colorado State patrol used them till 2008.

There are agencies still with 3rd gens but that doesn't mean anything. They just keep re issuing old guns. In some parts of the world they're still issuing post WW2 era guns! Kazakhstan was still issuing the P38/P1 in 2007.

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The Clinton Brady bill was in 1993 (seems like yesterday, how time flies!!!). Apparently, you are not familiar with recent American History, but its ok, not many people are. You may search it your self though, if you do not want to hear, hear, hear, from those who know. ;-)

It sure means a lot. certain agencies know their guns, and dont go with the flow just like if guns were fashion. The RMCP had 5946 up until a couple years ago. The Japanesse coast guard probably still has their 59xx. and the Israeli Defense Department had 915 until 2 years ago. As for Kazakstan, you may believe whatever you want, but a p38 still is a nice service gun!

 

[SOTVEN]

An injection molding machine is a very different animal from a milling machine, especially one that was most likely custom built for the application. With an injection molding machine, you just change the molds and the material and go. You can go from making gun frames, cheap dinner plates to car parts all on the same machine.
With injection molding, all your costs are in the molds. I worked for the company that made the pull strap for all the Ford Ranger, Explorers etc in the 90's through the 2000's. In the late 90's, a 4 cavity mold for a simple handle like that was a over 100k, who knows what a complex mold for a gun would cost, plus you are going to have several of them.

correct!! cheaper faster production!

 

[Arik]

so, in other words, you have seen for a fact lots of unsold 3rd gen pistols brand new in their boxes, stashed in the shelves of the stores all around, hence the demand has dropped. interesting!!!!. you heard correct about the beretta though! hence seals went with the runner up.

Well no. Beretta story is just that a story. The real problem was that the gun/s that failed we're already heavily used and the problem turned out to be with the ammo. Winchester had changed the case by thickening the brass but didn't change the powder resulting in near proof loads. Essentially an already very used gun was being heavily used with proof loads. The problem was found and even though Beretta did change their design they also sued the US government.... and won. At the same time those same loads were cracking frames on Sigs. Ammo problem, not gun problem. No bases were ever in the agreement. A company cannot promise gov land. S&W cannot give US land to another government.

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[TTSH]

How can a so called firearms expert have never have fired an American handgun that has been used by thousands of police officers and shooter's from the 1950's. Unbelievable!!!

It *is* kind of weird that he is just discovering Smith & Wesson 3rd Gens now more than a decade after they were discontinued in favor of cheap plastic wonder guns.

Anyway, it is well known that Hickok45 is a huge Glock fan. Every semi-auto he has ever posted a video about is always compared to his beloved Glocks, which he considers to be the absolute pinnacle of perfection within the semi-auto handgun realm.

So is it any surprise that he doesn't care for the hefty Smith & Wesson Model 4006TSW CHP version? Not in the least! Heck, I wasn't surprised at all. In fact, I would have been very surprised indeed if he would have had anything nice to say about the gun.

Does it bother me or change any of my opinions? Nope! Most of the guns he reviews (and likes) I wouldn't purchase or own in a million years. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Arik]

and that my friend, is called engineering! Not foreseeing the potential problems, bad engineering in my book. and in this forum you have people reaming 9mm barrels of 59xx and shooting 357 sig out of them.

How can you foresee a potential problem with a caliber that doesn't exist? How can Sig in 1980 know about the 40sw that will come out in 1990? If that was the case then SW better be foreseing future calibers as well

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[gman51]

It isn't hard to tell when Hickok45 doesn't like a gun. I really wouldn't care to watch gun reviews by someone that supposedly likes every gun he reviews. Hickok45 is a Glock lover but at least he doesn't shove Glocks down the throats of his viewers like some you tube viewers do.

I have yet seen Hickok45 put a gun in a vise and pull the trigger then say look this piece of junk blew apart. I do think Hick could often have gone into more detailed review about the guns rather than just see him blast away most of the video.

From what I have seen he gives fair reviews rather than slamming a gun just because it isn't a Glock. I have seen him give very favorable reviews on inexpensive guns that many people consider junk by all the negative talk even though they never even held one let alone shot one.

I have to say I have had S&W semi autos and I was not overly impressed with them but they weren't bad either. They went by the wayside when I sold off most of my semi autos.

 

[Arik]

the bigger heavier, makes sense when you have something producing pressure. hence the light sheetmetal sig was wearing out faster. hence the alloy frames wear out faster than steel frames. hence howitzers and naval guns do not have polymer or alloy frames. simple physics friend.

Wearing out in a NEW caliber that's WASN'T AROUND when the gun was made. In 9mm the gun is perfectly fine capable of handling a lifetime of shooting. Again....no chrystal ball! NE milled slide and the 40sw seem to work just fine with alloy frames



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[Wyatt Burp]

I enjoy Hickcok45's videos, but he has definitely sold out. Instead of shooting his reloads like he used to, he has boxes of free ammo sent to him. Can't start a video without mentioning Buds Gunshop.

As for his negatives, heavier than more modern weapons? Yes. So is the 1911's he has several of and sings the praises to. Not to mention no heavier than an L frame 686.

Holds less ammo? Yes, as do 1911's compared to more
Modern full size .45's.

Ease of takedown? He clearly didn't know how to. I field strip mine with no effort. And they're way easier to field strip than a 1911.

For all his negatives, he sure showed how somebody who can shoot can handle one.

Selling out? All he does is thank that gun shop for loaning the gun and thanks the ammo company for giving him the ammo. That's all they get out of him. Every other second of the video is just him shooting, having fun, and telling the good and bad points about the guns and sometimes the ammo.

 

[Arik]

The Clinton Brady bill was in 1993 (seems like yesterday, how time flies!!!). Apparently, you are not familiar with recent American History, but its ok, not many people are. You may search it your self though, if you do not want to hear, hear, hear, from those who know. ;-)

It sure means a lot. certain agencies know their guns, and dont go with the flow just like if guns were fashion. The RMCP had 5946 up until a couple years ago. The Japanesse coast guard probably still has their 59xx. and the Israeli Defense Department had 915 until 2 years ago. As for Kazakstan, you may believe whatever you want, but a p38 still is a nice service gun!

I'm familiar with it but it had nothing to do with stopping production of 2 out of many many handguns. They still made guns in the same calibers. So Clinton forced SW to stop production on the 5906 but not the 915, not the 910 nor the 909 nor the 908 or the Sigma which came out in 1994 or the SW 99 which is also a 9mm and 45 (sw99).

It didn't force Glock to stop importing guns, didn't force Ruger to stop making the P series. Didn't force Sig to stop making and importing. Seems Clinton must have had a thing for SW

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[SOTVEN]

I don't know if it's true about the Model 52, but I remember seeing the machine that was used to machine a part of the Model 19 frame sitting in a corner. The story was that the machine was the reason that Model 19 frames couldn't be replaced if they suffered from flame cutting.

That was on a tour back in 2006 (I think).

Everything, except barrel boring, is now done on CNC machines. At the time of my last visit, S&W had more than 100 CNC machines of various ages. We were told that it was the most on the east coast.

Since they make 1911s, with forged and machined frames, slides, and other parts, they could make 3rd Gens. The problem is that there is a big market for 1911s, but not for 3rd Gens. They still make revolvers using the forge/machine method and crank out a ton of J frames. Again, there is a demand.

Gary

revolvers is a whole different story. there are not many companies making revolvers these days to begin with, and the few that are, none of them has as extensive line of products as S&W for preety much every application. 1911? I am pro for them 100%. and lets assume for a split second, that you are right. no demand for 3rds. how about parts? how many posts are in this forum alone, of people looking for this tiny bit, or that to have their pistols up and running again. and how about those of us that do not bring their 3rds out to shoot or carry, just in case something breaks?? Allow me to disagree with you friend. there is plenty of demand. its just not good for the company though, because bringing these back, might canibalize their own current production of pistols in the market. why buy a PC 1911, If i can get a PC4506? why get a stupid shield if i can get a 3913?

 

[GaryS]

If the slide release is tight, I will use the handle of a tooth brush. It's just stiff enough to start the release out, but definitely won't scratch it if I slip.

Mostly though, I find that if I position the slide properly, the release pops out easily.

S&W 4006 TSW CHP - YouTube

I'm actually a big fan and subscribe to his channel, but I must admit I cringed watching him working over the slide release with a screwdriver. All I've ever needed was my finger to push it through to release.

digiroc