Is the Slide fire going to be history?

[Arik]

And let's not forget the last time we compromised

"Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986", which was labeled and billed as good for gun owners but in fact was mostly a defeat. Sure, it provided some modest legal protections for interstate travel, except that several states completely ignore it and there seems to be no legal repercussion against them. It gave up a lot and set the tone for a wave of restrictions in the following 8 years.

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[ChattanoogaPhil]

Ban bump fire mechanisms in trade for taking silencers off the NFA list? Gun owners are such poor deal makers....

An example of a compromise would be to put bump fire mechanism on the NFA list for taking silencers off.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

What common sense?

Common sense...
no one needs...

Just one more to go... it's for the children.

 

[rwsmith]

I think that it would be better......

I would think it better if they left silencers alone but eliminate anything automatic, with some exceptions, like collectables. I think it would also be a good idea that any auto weapon that is sold to civilians as a semi auto should be modified to make it very difficult to restore it to full auto. Any device that can make a gun full auto should be outlawed from import, manufacture or sales. Sure, this can be bypassed by a determined criminal, but at least make them work hard for it and don't give them a free pass.

My trigger finger should be outlawed because I have a 9mm carbine that I can shoot like an auto.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I'm afraid that the tragedy in Las Vegas will be a turning point in gun rights. Just like the tragedies in the 60s lead to the 1968 Gun Control Act.

I do not think that is true. But a change is coming, just not a sea change for most of us.

There will be a great deal of gnashing of teeth and cries for more laws. Then it will pass over except for the ATF rule change that I see coming.

Here's my point:

In order to legally carry my little High Standard .22 WMR derringer in its leather holster I had to register it with the ATF because, while alone it is just a chunk of leather, when snapped around the gun it makes the gun totally invisible so ATF decided it was an "AOW", "any other weapon", requiring a $5.00 tax stamp and their approval accordingly. There are many similar holsters for little guns but only this one totally covers the weapon. All the others usually wrap around the tiny pistols' frames but leave the slides exposed. A derringer doesn't have a slide so it is easy to cover up, especially this derringer due to the lack of a trigger guard. Silly, but true. I believe these holsters have been discontinued because these guns are very rare today.

To expand the point in case someone here is unaware of these things....

Certain other items have AOW status for a 5 buck tax stamp. All other NFA items (National Firearms Act of 1934 - the Bonnie & Clyde/Al Capone law), which in general are suppressors, short barreled rifles and certain short barreled shotguns, and full automatic weapons, require a $200.00 tax stamp. The stamp is cheap today; it was not in 1934. The automatic guns are VERY expensive. And a few years ago transfers of full automatic weapons were barred completely except between Class III Federal Firearms Dealers and law enforcement (and military, but that's different). Very often law enforcement departments buy their weapons through Class III dealers and not directly from the manufacturers. Class III FFLs can transfer such weapons amongst themselves but it is not exactly a booming business. So, as a general rule, except for some grandfathered guns, no fully automatic weapons have been transferred into "civilian" hands in a very long time.

Thus, our Las Vegas murderer could not have purchased a legal, fully automatic rifle or other "machine gun".

However, that leaves several options.

1. Manufacture your own, from scratch, using material and parts bought locally. If you do then you are not engaged in interstate commerce and the Federal statutes don't apply. I know that sounds crazy but it is correct legally.

The Las Vegas madman bought all of his guns legally. So that's out.

2. Illegally modify a semi-automatic rifle to fire automatically. With a little skill it can be accomplished.

We may yet learn that he did this.

3. Buy a "bump" attachment/"bump stock".

EarthLink - Top News

(c) 2017 AP and EarthLink

This is very likely what he had; news stories clearly suggest this.

=============================

When I first heard about these bump stocks I exclaimed, "That cannot be legal", only to be told that the ATF already ruled that they were legal.

So, my little lump of leather around my little two-shot derringer requires a Federal tax stamp but a stock that can be attached to a semi-auto rifle that essentially makes it full auto is legal because it affects the way the fingers hit the trigger and not the internal mechanism.

HOW STUPID IS THAT???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now you can bet they'll ban them under the 1934 NFA, now that they let that horse out of the barn. I'm pretty close to a purist in re not wanting anything banned but, still, if you have laws on the books that ban this or that how does an attachment like that get past the geniuses at the ATF?

The net result that I see coming is two fold:

1. All bump stocks, by whatever similar mechanism or name, will be put under the NFA and require a $200.00 tax stamp. There will be a grace period but ALL of them will be required to be "registered" with the ATF.

2. All legally owned "machine guns"/"assault rifles"/"full auto handguns", already tax stamped, are headed for a ban. Not the large capacity magazines, not the MSRs (modern sporting rifles), but the full autos are headed for the chopping block.

The weird thing is, I think the NRA will embarrass itself if it opposes these two moves. Time will tell.

 

[sigp220.45]

Since the question is "is it" rather than "should it" go away, my answer is yes. The legislation which has already been introduced will probably sail through both houses and be signed. The Hearing Protection Act will, in all likelihood, also never see the light of day again, resting in a drawer with national reciprocity.

The political reality is that an event of this magnitude will result in some kind of legislation. I was amazed Pelosi's bill wasn't just the old Assault Weapons Ban with bumps and cranks tacked on. I don't like it, but this ain't the hill I'm willing to die on. If any of you want to, have at it.

 

[rwsmith]

To me.......

To me an 'assaiult rifle' is the selectalbe full auto that is used by military, police, etc. I consider something that looks like an m16 that is semi auto to be a 'military pattern rifle'. Making it 'military pattern' doesn't make it any different from any other semi rifle.

One point of difficulty is CAPACITY and reloading time. I would like this to be left alone because there are all kinds of ways to get around it IF you are a determined criminal.

 

[sigp220.45]

I in generral agreement. To me an 'assaiult rifle' is the selectalbe full auto that is used by military, police, etc. I consider something that looks like an m16 that is semi auto to be a 'military pattern rifle'. Making it 'military pattern' doesn't make it any different from any other semi rifle.

I agree, but to the many folks here who think "Assault Weapon" is some recent creation of an anti-gun media, all I can say is they must not have read many gun rags a couple of decades ago.

I think Guns and Ammo used to have a regular Assault Weapon column, back when Mel Tappan and the survivalist crowd had a strong presence in the gun mags.

I think its a dumb term, too, but it's not new and its not like we (gun people) didn't think it was cool for a long time.

 

[moralem]

Since the question is "is it" rather than "should it" go away, my answer is yes. The legislation which has already been introduced will probably sail through both houses and be signed. The Hearing Protection Act will, in all likelihood, also never see the light of day again, resting in a drawer with national reciprocity.

The political reality is that an event of this magnitude will result in some kind of legislation. I was amazed Pelosi's bill wasn't just the old Assault Weapons Ban with bumps and cranks tacked on. I don't like it, but this ain't the hill I'm willing to die on. If any of you want to, have at it.

It may not be the hill you are willing to die on, but what about the guy that has sunk his living into the slidefire, built right here in Texas and the people that his business supports? So we are just supposed to say because it does not affect me or mine that it is okay to sell these businesses down the river. I never had a use for a bump stock, didn’t evern really care whether I had one or not, but I dang sure care about the second amendment and all the things that are attached to it like accessories and the people that bring us those items in good faith and fair dealing. I put in my order the other day for several items from SlideFire not because I have to have these items but to vote with my pocketbook in support of these businesses that work within the rules and now someone one is going to change the rules on a whim.......a very slippery slope it is and if we give up even on this fight there will be another and another and soon our 2nd amendment rights will be eroded. There is not long play strategy in appeasement......history has proven that.

 

[bushmaster1313]

i'd trade em for a supressor..

No big deal
Here in New Jersey
All guns are suppressed
Whether we can or not

 

[destrukto]

When the bump fire stocks first came out I figured the ATF would be all over that like stink on garbage as it basically exploits a technicality in the law.

The reason I don't like them is the fact that it's basically a waste of ammo and when you're bump firing the risk of an out of battery detonation is too much to me for some quick and expensive jollies (trying to turn a semi-auto trigger setup into a full auto like that just rubs me the wrong way)

I'm torn on whether or not they should be gotten rid of as they tend to attract the less desirable elements of the firearms community, just take a look at some of the stuff on youtube and tell me with a straight face that it makes gun owners look good. On the other hand the technology is out there and you won't be able to get rid of it.

Don't get me wrong, real machine guns are a lot of fun in the right environment.. MG42s give me the giggles

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Certain other items have AOW status for a 5 buck tax stamp. All other NFA items (National Firearms Act of 1934 - the Bonnie & Clyde/Al Capone law), which in general are suppressors, short barreled rifles and certain short barreled shotguns, and full automatic weapons, require a $200.00 tax stamp. The stamp is cheap today; it was not in 1934. The automatic guns are VERY expensive. And a few years ago transfers of full automatic weapons were barred completely except between Class III Federal Firearms Dealers and law enforcement (and military, but that's different). Very often law enforcement departments buy their weapons through Class III dealers and not directly from the manufacturers. Class III FFLs can transfer such weapons amongst themselves but it is not exactly a booming business. So, as a general rule, except for some grandfathered guns, no fully automatic weapons have been transferred into "civilian" hands in a very long time.

Thus, our Las Vegas murderer could not have purchased a legal, fully automatic rifle or other "machine gun".

Unless the shooter was a prohibited person (so far it doesn't sounds like he was) he could have legally purchased a fully automatic weapon. Form 4 just like a silencer.

Automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 cannot be transfered to individuals. So while there is not not a growing number in circulation (IIRC I think the number is 180,000 registered with the ATF) automatic weapons are legally transferable among the population.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

For about 3 decades I have been trying explain to people that "assault rifles" are not machine guns and cannot be easily converted to full-auto.

Well, you have been wrong for thirty years. Assault rifles are ALWAYS full auto, no conversion necessary. "Machine guns" is generally a specific term for belt fed, full auto military weapons but an M-16 and an M-14 are both "machine guns" in the full auto context. Modern Sporting Rifles/MSRs, the current euphemism (I like it) for military look alike weapons like the M1A, the AR-15, etc., are always semi-automatic only - they are NEVER full auto and cannot be converted to full auto, not legally, and it's not easy in many cases. Some rifles might be easy.

I realize a slide stock is not true full-auto. But there is no way I will ever be able to convince anyone that heard the video that this guy did not successfully convert his gun to full auto. The effect was certainly the same.

For all practical purposes a slide stock or a bump stock are full auto conversions BUT FOR the fact that the mechanics are external, not internal. I think the companies that make them should live and be well and sell millions of them if they can but the ATF should have covered them under its "conversions" section. That's just lawyer talk, not Second Amendment talk - under the RKBA I wouldn't list anything if I am a purist but that is not the point - the NFA exists and the bump stocks should have been included.

I believe the following is totally incorrect legally:

Unless the shooter was a prohibited person (so far it doesn't sounds like he was) he could have legally purchased a fully automatic weapon. Form 4 just like a silencer.

Automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 cannot be transfered to individuals. So while there is not not a growing number in circulation (IIRC I think the number is 180,000 registered with the ATF) automatic weapons are legally transferable among the population

I do not think any of them can be legally transferred any longer. I will ask my Class III dealer to be certain.

If you own one, great. But you cannot sell it to someone else because it has to pass through a Class III dealer for the transfer and the transfer is restricted. I could be wrong. We shall see.

In any case, it seems pretty clear that the Las Vegas madman used bump stocks, not assault rifles.

 

[Richard Simmons]

FYI. There are thousands and thousands of full autos made prior to 1986 that can and are transferred between individuals every day.

May machineguns be transferred from one registered possessor to another? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Walkingwolf]

Let's be clear, a bump stock does not make a semi auto into a full auto. All it does is speed up the pulling of the trigger on reset. A bump stock is not even needed for this, many shooters can shoot 300 to 400 rounds effective rate of fire with no bump stock. Even with lever action rifles, though reloading is slow. Jerry Miculek can shoot right along side of a shooter with the bump stock, and be just as fast.

 

[iPac]

It may not be the hill you are willing to die on, but what about the guy that has sunk his living into the slidefire, built right here in Texas and the people that his business supports? So we are just supposed to say because it does not affect me or mine that it is okay to sell these businesses down the river. I never had a use for a bump stock, didn’t evern really care whether I had one or not, but I dang sure care about the second amendment and all the things that are attached to it like accessories and the people that bring us those items in good faith and fair dealing. I put in my order the other day for several items from SlideFire not because I have to have these items but to vote with my pocketbook in support of these businesses that work within the rules and now someone one is going to change the rules on a whim.......a very slippery slope it is and if we give up even on this fight there will be another and another and soon our 2nd amendment rights will be eroded. There is not long play strategy in appeasement......history has proven that.

Exactly!

Can't give them an inch when you know full well they're plotting for a mile.

 

[deadin]

Jerry Miculek can shoot right along side of a shooter with the bump stock, and be just as fast.

But how many Jerry Miculeks are there out there???

As for a complete ban... there is a whole lot of money tied up in those 186,000 registered auto's that, for all intents and purposes, will become worthless if they can't be sold. (I can't see the government buying them back at current fair market value. At least, I don't want my tax dollars spent that way.)

 

[sigp220.45]

It may not be the hill you are willing to die on, but what about the guy that has sunk his living into the slidefire, built right here in Texas and the people that his business supports?

I'd say that guy is hosed.

There are busloads of plaintiff's attorneys drawing straws to see which one will be the one to sue him into oblivion. Yes, his product was legal. But it only takes one sympathetic jury to believe the only use for his product was hosing down a large crowd of people. And I don't believe the Protection In Lawful Commerce In Arms Act will cover them.

I hope the NRA doesn't spend a dime of my dough tilting against this particular windmill.

 

[WCCPHD]

I only have three comments which pertain to the issue in question:

First: The first ten amendments to the US Constitution are known as the Bill
of Rights.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it speak of the Bill of Needs.

Second: Gun control is not, nor has it ever been, about guns.
Its about control.

Third: I cannot recall anyone calling for common sense restrictions on any of
the provisions of the First Amendment. Such as restrictions on
Freedom of the Press.

 

[BigBill]

The bump fire stocks will be out lawed there working on passing a bill right now. But you can still bump fire a semi auto too without a bump fire stock.
It's on YouTube.

To me bump firing and large capacity magazines only wastes ammo. I like going after the X in the ten ring. I shoot for accuracy.(fun) I enjoy shooting soda cans with the kids, paper targets, hunting, ccw personal protection and I pray I never have to use it.