We live in different worlds I think. Do you really believe that men and women Marines are having a lot of sex together? If you do, your imagination is out of control. As for scouts do you really believe that mingling boys and girls in a combined activity will result in an increase in sexual behavior? I hope not, but if you do, I think you need some help.
Opinions please from former Scouts and friends of Scouting
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We live in different worlds I think. Do you really believe that men and women Marines are having a lot of sex together? If you do, your imagination is out of control. As for scouts do you really believe that mingling boys and girls in a combined activity will result in an increase in sexual behavior? I hope not, but if you do, I think you need some help.
This should not be looked at as more or better opportunities for
the girls. That should not enter in to it, that's why it is called
the BOY SCOUTS.
the girls. That should not enter in to it, that's why it is called
the BOY SCOUTS.
About all that they can't do....
Most females lack the same upper body strength as males but if they are in shape and willing there's no reason they can't participate in the same activities boys do. The big hikes and all are optional IF you want to do them. I was thinking about getting my 50 miler but didn't pursue it. That's no reason for me not to have been in the Scouts. We didn't have any big wilderness here either, but we hiked and camped and did all the Scout things. I think that there is enough in common in camping, woodsmanship, hobbies, teamwork and everything that Scouts do.
I'm wouldn't choose it, but faced with a decision I'm in favor of it.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsPtX26pxiw[/ame]
Most females lack the same upper body strength as males but if they are in shape and willing there's no reason they can't participate in the same activities boys do. The big hikes and all are optional IF you want to do them. I was thinking about getting my 50 miler but didn't pursue it. That's no reason for me not to have been in the Scouts. We didn't have any big wilderness here either, but we hiked and camped and did all the Scout things. I think that there is enough in common in camping, woodsmanship, hobbies, teamwork and everything that Scouts do.
I'm wouldn't choose it, but faced with a decision I'm in favor of it.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsPtX26pxiw[/ame]
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I too was a Cub Scout and then a Boy Scout and loved my time in the Scouts until I found girls and guns. I do not think that it will be the same having girls in the troops. When was the last time that you heard of a boy that wanted to join a girls sport team or Girl Scouts or other activity.
Usmc5811
US Veteran
I don't know of many teen age girls wanting to be tapped for the O/A and sleeping in the woods by themselves with no flashlight or tent. Just a change of clothes and a sleeping bag was all we were allowed to take. Of course they may not do that anymore, but that's how they did it 25 years ago.
rolomac
Member
I'm an Eagle Scout and even now - in my seventies - I'm very proud of it. I was Order of the Arrow, spent a summer at Philmont in '56, went to the national jamboree in '57. Later I served as Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, and merit badge councilor. My two sons are also Eagle Scouts. Interesting to me that we say "I AM an Eagle Scout" - not "I WAS an Eagle Scout". We carry it with us the rest of our life.
Another thing we carry with us the rest of our life is the ability to have valuable relationships with guys. We hunt together, fish together, talk cars with each other, swap jokes together, drink beer together, and form bonds with each other about our families and our lives. Having said that, let me say that I value relationships that I have with women equally. I love their different points of views, their sensitivities, their enlightening insights and their understanding nature. I have some dear friends who happen to be women and others who happen to be men. I value their friendship - all of them.
Scouting was very influential in my learning how to be with men. How to work with them, form bonds with them, be friends with them, enjoy their company, respect them and be respected by them. Those lessons have served me well throughout my life. And how did I learn how to be with women? Not from scouting, but from my family, my teachers, and from my wife. I've learned how to form bonds with them, be friends with them, respect them, enjoy their company, and be respected by them.
So what's my point? Scouting can teach boys how to be men. It works. Don't fix it.
rolomac
rolomac
Another thing we carry with us the rest of our life is the ability to have valuable relationships with guys. We hunt together, fish together, talk cars with each other, swap jokes together, drink beer together, and form bonds with each other about our families and our lives. Having said that, let me say that I value relationships that I have with women equally. I love their different points of views, their sensitivities, their enlightening insights and their understanding nature. I have some dear friends who happen to be women and others who happen to be men. I value their friendship - all of them.
Scouting was very influential in my learning how to be with men. How to work with them, form bonds with them, be friends with them, enjoy their company, respect them and be respected by them. Those lessons have served me well throughout my life. And how did I learn how to be with women? Not from scouting, but from my family, my teachers, and from my wife. I've learned how to form bonds with them, be friends with them, respect them, enjoy their company, and be respected by them.
So what's my point? Scouting can teach boys how to be men. It works. Don't fix it.
rolomac
rolomac
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This can all be summed up in two words, the end.
nachogrande
Member
MAKING EAGLE SCOUT IS QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT.
I believe the correct term would be Scouting can make a better person & that person makes himself (with guidance, hard work, taught values) into a good man or woman. What is or isn't between their legs has little to do with it, what's between their ears matters more.
I believe the correct term would be Scouting can make a better person & that person makes himself (with guidance, hard work, taught values) into a good man or woman. What is or isn't between their legs has little to do with it, what's between their ears matters more.
As an interesting side note, a Girl Scout Troop gets a quarter for every box of cookies they sell. On the other hand, a Boy Scout Troop gets 30-40% of the popcorn gross. The more expensive the item, the more the Troop keeps. Granted, a $20 box of microwave popcorn is more expensive than a $4 box of cookies, but $1.25 vs. $6 is significant.
Let's talk about money. Don't know a thing about Girl Scout fund raising. Do know a bit about Boy Scout fund raising. In a week or so we'll be selling doughnuts ... $10/box. Each boy will sell six boxes to pay his portion of various annual costs. We adult leaders expect to sell a whole lot more. I plan on picking up the phone and using e-mail to contact various VFD, Sheriff and Police Depts. and EMT's and ask them to buy at least one box each. In this area that will sell a fair amount of high calorie doughnuts. I am also selling BBQ tickets to help the family of a little 1 yr. old girl who has had three very serious heart surgeries. When she is strong enough, she'll have more surgery. She is still alive b/c lots of people have done things for her that no child should ever have to face.
Some complain about where the money goes. They complain about Boy Scouts b/c they decide that everyone should live on minimum wage ... it's all for the boys mentality. Same sort of thing is heard about helping children like that little girl. Folks act like the ones doing the work should donate their services. Never have seen to many say the same thing about those who sell tires/gas for school buses, shoes/socks for boys/girls, etc. You get my drift.
The dear sweet world of my youth is gone. It isn't ever coming back. When I was a boy, my parents once upon a time world of pre-WWII America was a figment of a Norman Rockwell memory. Few boys/girls of today will ever face a charging bear or spend time lost in a wilderness. All of them will face the challenges of a rapidly changing world. Many of them will do so without the support and encouragement of a intact family led by a stable employed father and mother.
Boy Scouting is adapting to and seeking to remain relevant in that changing world. The cost of programming is a significant challenge. Troop 47 held its second meeting last night. We are starting at ground zero. We have an US flat, a BSA flag, four manuals and five boys. Last night we were teaching the boys about how to properly handle the flags, etc. The boys are various races. Some have a father present in their lives. Some have just a mother. One boy has Asperger's syndrome. They are as addicted to electronic devices as my generation was to dirt bikes and stereo systems.
Back when I was first starting in Boy Scouts, there were those who complained about the costs of uniforms, books, camping equipment, BSA marked axes/knives, etc. Said it was just a way to make money. Maybe right. Nowadays ... maybe still true. Maybe. As a Scout I sold a lot of doughnuts, light bulbs, etc. We collected green pine cones for some company that paid good money for them. The adult leaders bought stuff for us, spent money on us, saw to it that we could share the experience, values, training and development that was and is today Boy Scouting.
The Scout representative and his wife who have helped us get Troop 47 up and running are fine people. He is a 10 yr. USMC veteran who now works with the BSA. Talked with his wife. Found out she has done a bit of the AT and been out at Philmont. Cool. They are not making a fortune in salary/benefits. Look to me like just a fine young couple who are precisely the sort of people boys and girls need to see, spend time with and learn from. It'll cost money. Hardly anything in this world that doesn't cost money. Sincerely. bruce.
Let's talk about money. Don't know a thing about Girl Scout fund raising. Do know a bit about Boy Scout fund raising. In a week or so we'll be selling doughnuts ... $10/box. Each boy will sell six boxes to pay his portion of various annual costs. We adult leaders expect to sell a whole lot more. I plan on picking up the phone and using e-mail to contact various VFD, Sheriff and Police Depts. and EMT's and ask them to buy at least one box each. In this area that will sell a fair amount of high calorie doughnuts. I am also selling BBQ tickets to help the family of a little 1 yr. old girl who has had three very serious heart surgeries. When she is strong enough, she'll have more surgery. She is still alive b/c lots of people have done things for her that no child should ever have to face.
Some complain about where the money goes. They complain about Boy Scouts b/c they decide that everyone should live on minimum wage ... it's all for the boys mentality. Same sort of thing is heard about helping children like that little girl. Folks act like the ones doing the work should donate their services. Never have seen to many say the same thing about those who sell tires/gas for school buses, shoes/socks for boys/girls, etc. You get my drift.
The dear sweet world of my youth is gone. It isn't ever coming back. When I was a boy, my parents once upon a time world of pre-WWII America was a figment of a Norman Rockwell memory. Few boys/girls of today will ever face a charging bear or spend time lost in a wilderness. All of them will face the challenges of a rapidly changing world. Many of them will do so without the support and encouragement of a intact family led by a stable employed father and mother.
Boy Scouting is adapting to and seeking to remain relevant in that changing world. The cost of programming is a significant challenge. Troop 47 held its second meeting last night. We are starting at ground zero. We have an US flat, a BSA flag, four manuals and five boys. Last night we were teaching the boys about how to properly handle the flags, etc. The boys are various races. Some have a father present in their lives. Some have just a mother. One boy has Asperger's syndrome. They are as addicted to electronic devices as my generation was to dirt bikes and stereo systems.
Back when I was first starting in Boy Scouts, there were those who complained about the costs of uniforms, books, camping equipment, BSA marked axes/knives, etc. Said it was just a way to make money. Maybe right. Nowadays ... maybe still true. Maybe. As a Scout I sold a lot of doughnuts, light bulbs, etc. We collected green pine cones for some company that paid good money for them. The adult leaders bought stuff for us, spent money on us, saw to it that we could share the experience, values, training and development that was and is today Boy Scouting.
The Scout representative and his wife who have helped us get Troop 47 up and running are fine people. He is a 10 yr. USMC veteran who now works with the BSA. Talked with his wife. Found out she has done a bit of the AT and been out at Philmont. Cool. They are not making a fortune in salary/benefits. Look to me like just a fine young couple who are precisely the sort of people boys and girls need to see, spend time with and learn from. It'll cost money. Hardly anything in this world that doesn't cost money. Sincerely. bruce.
jag312
Member
When I was a Boy Scout, we would have overnight camping trips about once a month, but in the Summer, we had The Big Hike. We backpacked through the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and everything we would need was carried on our backs. Knowing the girls in my school, none would have completed The Big Hike. I doubt that any of the girls would have even wanted to attempt it. We earned our 50 Miler, although we hiked a lot more than 50 miles. There was pride in what we achieved. And if I had to do it over again, I would do it on the back of a horse, leading a pack horse.
When I was talking about what my scout troop called The Big Hike, I was referring to 12 and 13 year old girls. Most of the boys in my school couldn't make it, and I know none of the girls in my school could do it. You are thinking of adult women.
YES, surely a girl would fall & sprain an ankle in the first 1/2 mile or so just like in the old tv shows right.I'm pretty sure about any of the women that compete in the iron"man" competitions would consider a 50 miler a stroll in the park. Try giving birth.
Been to a gym lately? Some of those broa, er lady's are pretty buff.
When I was talking about what my scout troop called The Big Hike, I was referring to 12 and 13 year old girls. Most of the boys in my school couldn't make it, and I know none of the girls in my school could do it. You are thinking of adult women.
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I'm kind of on the fence about this. Don't know where I'm going but here are some random thoughts.
I believe that boys and girls should have the same opportunities across the board. They should be able to interact with each other outside of our education system and outside the home.
If girls were allowed to join, who is it going to hurt? If it's because of tradition or we are so set in our ways that we can't see clearly, who is going to be hurt by that?
If a boy or girl isn't getting the guidance they need at home and have the opportunity to do so with Scouting isn't that a win for our society?
As a youngster I was a member of church youth group. All male and female church members still in high school were allowed to attend. We met every Sunday afternoon for brief fellowship and then went out on the town. We went bowling or to the zoo or elsewhere followed by dinner. Twice a year we went shooting at an outdoor range and once a year we went on a weekend camping trip. Of course we had a chaperone but we never had any problems. A few of the boys and girls were romantically involved but those relationships were kept separate even though everyone knew about it.
Every one of us kids came from decent homes with decent parents who taught respect and family values. But the things I learned with my friends outside of the home was just as important.
I have known a few women that I would trust more than some of the men I have met. They may have been physically weaker but they made up for it with heart and desire.
I believe that boys and girls should have the same opportunities across the board. They should be able to interact with each other outside of our education system and outside the home.
If girls were allowed to join, who is it going to hurt? If it's because of tradition or we are so set in our ways that we can't see clearly, who is going to be hurt by that?
If a boy or girl isn't getting the guidance they need at home and have the opportunity to do so with Scouting isn't that a win for our society?
As a youngster I was a member of church youth group. All male and female church members still in high school were allowed to attend. We met every Sunday afternoon for brief fellowship and then went out on the town. We went bowling or to the zoo or elsewhere followed by dinner. Twice a year we went shooting at an outdoor range and once a year we went on a weekend camping trip. Of course we had a chaperone but we never had any problems. A few of the boys and girls were romantically involved but those relationships were kept separate even though everyone knew about it.
Every one of us kids came from decent homes with decent parents who taught respect and family values. But the things I learned with my friends outside of the home was just as important.
I have known a few women that I would trust more than some of the men I have met. They may have been physically weaker but they made up for it with heart and desire.
Kanewpadle,
I think you got over the fence with your post. I think it was an exceptionally cogent response. If you read my post above, I think we should simply drop the gender designations when it comes to Scouts. Let's just have Scouts.
I think you got over the fence with your post. I think it was an exceptionally cogent response. If you read my post above, I think we should simply drop the gender designations when it comes to Scouts. Let's just have Scouts.
nachogrande
Member
ANYONE I WANT,WISH THAT WERE TRUE.
Toolguy; Scouts are minors and Soldiers are adults. The adults can have sex with whomever they choose. Just keep the kids as kids until they turn 18.[/QUOTE said:Keeping kids as kids until they are 18 y/o??? That ship sailed a longtime ago if it ever existed. My "innocence" was lost & eyes opened greatly riding the school bus in 7th grade. Today with the interweb who knows?
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ChattanoogaPhil
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There are a zillion activities boys and girls share outside the home and school. You illustrated one in your post.
Why deprive boys the choice and opportunity of an all-boys learning environment when there are so many other co-ed activities to chose from?
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Here's some words from the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the Southern Appalachians in my neck of the woods.
"What I will say about Girl Scouts is we will continue to be the pre-eminent leadership experience for girls, as we have been for 105 years. The Boy Scouts do a great job teaching young men to be leaders. They've been doing that for 107 years, and my sons are Eagle Scouts. So I appreciate the work of Boy Scouts
"But as a Girl Scout and as a mother of boys, I see tremendous value in single-sex organizations providing leadership experiences for youth. And so we at Girl Scouts will focus on that work and continue to do that work in the future."
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Girl Scouts of Middle Tennessee CEO Agenia Clark
Middle Tennessee's Boy Scouts council was one of the fastest-growing in the nation last year. It added over 1,000 kids to the program in Middle Tennessee.
The region's Girl Scouts council has also seen unprecedented growth, Clark said, and is also one of the fastest-growing in the nation.
The demand for both programs is evident, she said.
"The development of children is unique for boys and girls, and that's why we have boy scouts and girl scouts," Clark said.
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Why are these women wrong?
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I have no problem with it, but if they are going to admit girls, they need to change their name to Scouts of America, not the Boy Scouts. The Times are always changing.
John
John
If the BSA has come up with this to bolster their membership
due to soft enrollment it is going to blow up in their face. I would
guess this will cause a severe drop in new enrollments and will
probably cause kids to drop out. Especially in the conservative
regions of the country where the Scouts remain solid.
due to soft enrollment it is going to blow up in their face. I would
guess this will cause a severe drop in new enrollments and will
probably cause kids to drop out. Especially in the conservative
regions of the country where the Scouts remain solid.
nachogrande
Member
"WHY ARE THESE WOMEN WRONG?"
Here's some words from the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the Southern Appalachians in my neck of the woods.
"What I will experience for girls, as we have been for 105 years. The Boy Scouts do a great job teaching young men to be leaders. They've been doing that for 107 years, and my sons are Eagle Scouts. So I appreciate the work of Boy Scouts say about Girl Scouts is we will continue to be the pre-eminent leadership.
Why are these women wrong?[/QUOTE]
IMO It's because those statements contradict each other. BSA & GSA each train THEIR genders to be the future leaders, SO which gender gets top billing? Crazy idea, how about the best PERSON for the job?
Here's some words from the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the Southern Appalachians in my neck of the woods.
"What I will experience for girls, as we have been for 105 years. The Boy Scouts do a great job teaching young men to be leaders. They've been doing that for 107 years, and my sons are Eagle Scouts. So I appreciate the work of Boy Scouts say about Girl Scouts is we will continue to be the pre-eminent leadership.
Why are these women wrong?[/QUOTE]
IMO It's because those statements contradict each other. BSA & GSA each train THEIR genders to be the future leaders, SO which gender gets top billing? Crazy idea, how about the best PERSON for the job?
When my son was in high school the church youth group went on a week long camping trip through Minnesota and canoeing in the Boundary Waters/Quetico. Boys and girls, no problems.
When my daughter was in high school the Science Club had yearly camping trips all over the United States.,, usually 8-10 days, fantastic opportunity for the kids. They tent camped mostly in National Parks. She got to see probably 1/2 of the National Parks in the western US. One year her steady boyfriend at the time was there also. Teenage boys & girls, again, no problems.
I think we can all agree that there are times the boys & girls should have separate activities and times they should be together. The problem is which & when. I doubt there is a textbook/one size fits all answer.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I'm kind of surprised the Boy Scouts are still around. I see Cub Scouts every now and then selling popcorn (I always buy some) but I figured most 16 year old boys would rather be caught dead than in a Boy Scout uniform.
I never made it past Webelos myself.
My oldest was 7 when we moved to small town Montana. I enrolled him in a local Cub Scout pack, and mentioned it to the Sheriff once. He said - come here, I have something you need to hear.
He played me a tape of my kid's Den Mother making a meth sale to one of his informants. They were going to do a few more buys, then bust her. He also pointed out Den Mom had her current husband as well as her recently paroled ex-husband at the house. They called the ex "the dentist" because once on a meth bender he was sure there were bugs in his teeth and pulled them all out with some pliers.
This was in a town of 2500 people.
No more Scouts for Number One Son, which he was fine with. We did stuff together instead.
I've always been more than mildly distrustful of male Scout leaders (Google "scout leader arrested" sometime) but I thought I was OK with a female. Live and learn.
I think this is the last dying gasp of what is now an outdated institution, like the circus.
I never made it past Webelos myself.
My oldest was 7 when we moved to small town Montana. I enrolled him in a local Cub Scout pack, and mentioned it to the Sheriff once. He said - come here, I have something you need to hear.
He played me a tape of my kid's Den Mother making a meth sale to one of his informants. They were going to do a few more buys, then bust her. He also pointed out Den Mom had her current husband as well as her recently paroled ex-husband at the house. They called the ex "the dentist" because once on a meth bender he was sure there were bugs in his teeth and pulled them all out with some pliers.
This was in a town of 2500 people.
No more Scouts for Number One Son, which he was fine with. We did stuff together instead.
I've always been more than mildly distrustful of male Scout leaders (Google "scout leader arrested" sometime) but I thought I was OK with a female. Live and learn.
I think this is the last dying gasp of what is now an outdated institution, like the circus.
Arik
Member
I think the idea is great and at one time was very popular but I agree, it seems like a dying institution
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