Opinions please from former Scouts and friends of Scouting
- Thread starter lrrifleman
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So are you saying we should do what we can to make it easier for them and give them more opportunity to have teen sex?
Or are you asserting that somehow because it is in the context of a Scouting event, it is less likely to occur?
I'm obviously confused.
Watchdog
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Scouting doesn't have much of a "cool factor"? Well, maybe so if all a kid thinks about are hamburgers, hot dogs, and playing sports year round. And maybe video games and comic books. God forbid they participate in anything that might teach them some real life skills. And please spare me the homilies about how sports teaches fair play and teamwork and how to be a good loser...I heard all that when I was in junior high.
Nah, ask a kid if you want a somewhat selfish, self-serving answer. I don't wanna be a scout cause it ain't cool, never mind that I don't know anything about it. Right. It's only "not cool" in their uninformed-ten-year-old-view of the real world.
nachogrande
Member
ABSOLUTELY!!!
How could anyone possibly believe that teens in an adult supervised event are going to have more sex than when unsupervised at a kids house where the parents are not there, or in a car or in any number of UNSUPERVISED places that we used to get busy before we were 18???? Confused is underrating it, more like delusional.
How could anyone possibly believe that teens in an adult supervised event are going to have more sex than when unsupervised at a kids house where the parents are not there, or in a car or in any number of UNSUPERVISED places that we used to get busy before we were 18???? Confused is underrating it, more like delusional.
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nachogrande
Member
BEFORE AGE 18, WHERE WERE YOU WHEN....
A SCOUTING EVENT, or a NON SCOUTING EVENT? I'm sure the #'s will be very one sided. A Scouting event never made my list.
A SCOUTING EVENT, or a NON SCOUTING EVENT? I'm sure the #'s will be very one sided. A Scouting event never made my list.
A SCOUTING EVENT, or a NON SCOUTING EVENT? I'm sure the #'s will be very one sided. A Scouting event never made my list.
Maybe you'd be a better person if one had . . .
That just might make those long tours more interesting & enjoyable.
My niece spent a couple of years on one of the nuclear submarines, the USS Louisiana (SSBN 743) before moving on to bigger and better tings in the Navy. She is a career Navy Officer having just made LT Commander.
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nachogrande
Member
THANK HER FOR HER SERVICE.
I'll bet just having a female aboard to talk to brightened the days of some sailors & boosted morale. Good for her! If she was up to the task, why not be there? What year did the navy start allowing females on subs?
I'll bet just having a female aboard to talk to brightened the days of some sailors & boosted morale. Good for her! If she was up to the task, why not be there? What year did the navy start allowing females on subs?
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How could anyone possibly believe that teens in an adult supervised event are going to have more sex than when unsupervised at a kids house where the parents are not there, or in a car or in any number of UNSUPERVISED places that we used to get busy before we were 18???? Confused is underrating it, more like delusional.
Dude, how much have you been involved in Scouting?
I've already shared about my years of involvement.
How many teenagers do you currently have in your home?
I've got two still at home.
I think I know of what I speak FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.
Do you?
The fact is that on a campout the adults are not present to supervise every one of the kids every minute of every day. That is true even at CUB Scout camp - much less a camp full of teenagers. I did it for 8 years straight. I know what I'm talking about. Heck, even 40 years ago when I was a scout we managed to sneak off and get into mischief when we were at camp.
As for kids being unsupervised at home, that isn't what this discussion is about. If you think you have a workable solution to that problem, then you must be the smartest person on the planet. Please share it with all of us - and the country as a whole.
THIS discussion is about throwing boys and girls into the mix together out in the woods where they outnumber the adults 15 or 20 to one, and where there are lots of tents and other places where they can sneak off and "get busy". I'm sorry, but it is NOT a good idea.
My big question is this. What POSITIVE opportunities are girls going to gain by being in Boy Scouts that they can't get by being in Girl Scouts? IF there even is such a benefit, why not simply expand the opportunities available to girls in their existing organization? Why do we need to further blur the lines between the genders. Isn't that distinction already being blurred enough?
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Protected One
Member
I earned First Class Scout in the late 60's. The developments of today are nothing more than the result of our decaying morality.
People have lost all semblance of common sense.
Abbynormal
Member
Cub Scout for a while (pretty limp Pack, so I dropped out). Joined BSA in
6th grade and made Eagle Sophomore year. New and unliked SM took over after I made Eagle, so my buds and I bailed troop and started Explorer Post. My interest in Scouting unfortunately waned and I let my buds who joined the Post with me down as my interests had changed and I wasn't around to mentor them.
Eagle Scout, Philmont and National Jamboree, 25 merit badges, Scout Camp Staff Life Guard, Order of the Arrow, I'd had enuf.
Dad was on Troop Commitee as soon as I joined, he grew into District and Council posts. He took Woodbadge and began teaching on 25 WB staffs and then was a 4 Beader who Scout Mastered 10 WB courses.
6th grade and made Eagle Sophomore year. New and unliked SM took over after I made Eagle, so my buds and I bailed troop and started Explorer Post. My interest in Scouting unfortunately waned and I let my buds who joined the Post with me down as my interests had changed and I wasn't around to mentor them.
Eagle Scout, Philmont and National Jamboree, 25 merit badges, Scout Camp Staff Life Guard, Order of the Arrow, I'd had enuf.
Dad was on Troop Commitee as soon as I joined, he grew into District and Council posts. He took Woodbadge and began teaching on 25 WB staffs and then was a 4 Beader who Scout Mastered 10 WB courses.
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nachogrande
Member
1960 WAS 57 YEARS AGO.
Women ARE currently in combat roles, doing well and making us & other nations proud. I'm asked questions about myself & history/experience. Who are YOU to decide what gender belongs where or what activity is gender appropriate? I don't see a merit badge as being PC one way or the other, simply an acknowledgement of a skill learned. Are you saying some kids can learn some things and not other things based on their gender? That is just silly and would only hold some kids back. I view learning any skill as a positive, and can't understand the pushback against it. If our nation intends to move forward we will have to be willing to let go of the past & outdated thinking. We, meaning the USA is on a fast track to becoming a third world nation unless our kids progress beyond where we WERE and become competitive with the rest of the planet.
Women ARE currently in combat roles, doing well and making us & other nations proud. I'm asked questions about myself & history/experience. Who are YOU to decide what gender belongs where or what activity is gender appropriate? I don't see a merit badge as being PC one way or the other, simply an acknowledgement of a skill learned. Are you saying some kids can learn some things and not other things based on their gender? That is just silly and would only hold some kids back. I view learning any skill as a positive, and can't understand the pushback against it. If our nation intends to move forward we will have to be willing to let go of the past & outdated thinking. We, meaning the USA is on a fast track to becoming a third world nation unless our kids progress beyond where we WERE and become competitive with the rest of the planet.
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OK, so then would the answer to my question about your experience as a Scout and as a parent of teenagers be "None"?
I am not the one trying to define or REDEFINE anything. It is the progressive agenda that is trying to redefine or blur the definitions of everything.
I'm still waiting for someone to answer the question of why girls have to join the BOY Scouts in order to have these opportunities that you think they are being denied. Why exactly can't they be offered all those the same opportunities within the GIRL Scouts?
And I am sorry, but I have to call "ridiculous BS" on the assertion that we are on our way to becoming a 3rd world nation because we have gender segregated clubs for our kids. Talk about hyperbole!
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OP
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum, I wish to thank you for your opinions. What you have shared has been eye opening and enlightening. I intentionally left my initial post vague when I started this thread, because I didn't want to guide you to any specific type of response.
I feel that I now need to elaborate. When I was back in Cub Scouts, we never did camping, that was reserved for Boy Scouts. When I was in Cubs, my sister participated in our activities, because my mother was the Den Mother. I think when my sister wasn't present, we (the boys) were more focused to the task at hand.
When I was in Boy Scouts, we were lucky if we had 4 dads present for a camping trip, with anywhere from 20-30 guys. I wasn't focused on the prospect of boys and girls exercising what they learned in either health or math class, but that is a valid concern, since many parents seem to engage in drop and run tactics.
Back when I was in Boy Scouts, when it came time to work on merit badges, the counselors expected the scouts to show up having done work in preparation for the meeting, not to expect the counselor to teach everything the Scout needed to know to meet the requirements. I realize that the girls may be a pleasant distraction for the boys, I was concerned how their physical needs could impact troop activities. I don't want to be crude, but when you introduce girls into troop scheduled events, it can be hard to coordinate "timing". Hikes, canoe trips, and even camping trips would have to accommodate the ladies' needs when her time of the month presents itself.
I remember when my troop was involved in a service project where we were all drenched to the skin because we were cleaning out a neighboring drainage run ... I have difficulty envisioning the ladies participating like the guys. It is also difficult to envision the ladies putting up with some of the (dirty or physical) tasks that may cross their paths. Yes, I may be sexist here.
In '72, when I did my Board of Review, I was one of the last Scout "classes" under the old rules [at that time] to have to do the specific 11 required badges of the 21 required ... beginning in '73 Scouts were permitted to pick 11 out of 13 required badges, not needing to do swimming or lifesaving. In many respects, I fear that the requirements for Eagle may be "watered-down" to meet the abilities of the ladies.
What I fear will happen when Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are neutered by allowing the opposite sex to join:
1. I fear that troop activities will be negatively impacted due to the physical needs of girls.
2. I fear that rank requirements may be "watered-down" when girls don't achieve targeted ranks in the same percentages as the boys.
3. While the possibility of teenage pregnancy is a possibility, I don't think that Scouting should provide a setting and conditions that could encourage a compromising encounter.
4. While it is a greater threat in Girl Scouts, I fear the presence of the biological male identifying as a female with the clandestine agenda of fulfilling desires that could lead to abuse, molestation, or pregnancy.
5. Considering the rise of instances of improper teacher-student relationships that are leading to criminal charges, we shouldn't expose good leaders to the risk of abuse and molestation charges (or worse) by introducing the opposite gender into a gender defined organization.
I think that it may be time to step down from my soapbox. Thank you for tolerating my thread and views.
I feel that I now need to elaborate. When I was back in Cub Scouts, we never did camping, that was reserved for Boy Scouts. When I was in Cubs, my sister participated in our activities, because my mother was the Den Mother. I think when my sister wasn't present, we (the boys) were more focused to the task at hand.
When I was in Boy Scouts, we were lucky if we had 4 dads present for a camping trip, with anywhere from 20-30 guys. I wasn't focused on the prospect of boys and girls exercising what they learned in either health or math class, but that is a valid concern, since many parents seem to engage in drop and run tactics.
Back when I was in Boy Scouts, when it came time to work on merit badges, the counselors expected the scouts to show up having done work in preparation for the meeting, not to expect the counselor to teach everything the Scout needed to know to meet the requirements. I realize that the girls may be a pleasant distraction for the boys, I was concerned how their physical needs could impact troop activities. I don't want to be crude, but when you introduce girls into troop scheduled events, it can be hard to coordinate "timing". Hikes, canoe trips, and even camping trips would have to accommodate the ladies' needs when her time of the month presents itself.
I remember when my troop was involved in a service project where we were all drenched to the skin because we were cleaning out a neighboring drainage run ... I have difficulty envisioning the ladies participating like the guys. It is also difficult to envision the ladies putting up with some of the (dirty or physical) tasks that may cross their paths. Yes, I may be sexist here.
In '72, when I did my Board of Review, I was one of the last Scout "classes" under the old rules [at that time] to have to do the specific 11 required badges of the 21 required ... beginning in '73 Scouts were permitted to pick 11 out of 13 required badges, not needing to do swimming or lifesaving. In many respects, I fear that the requirements for Eagle may be "watered-down" to meet the abilities of the ladies.
What I fear will happen when Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are neutered by allowing the opposite sex to join:
1. I fear that troop activities will be negatively impacted due to the physical needs of girls.
2. I fear that rank requirements may be "watered-down" when girls don't achieve targeted ranks in the same percentages as the boys.
3. While the possibility of teenage pregnancy is a possibility, I don't think that Scouting should provide a setting and conditions that could encourage a compromising encounter.
4. While it is a greater threat in Girl Scouts, I fear the presence of the biological male identifying as a female with the clandestine agenda of fulfilling desires that could lead to abuse, molestation, or pregnancy.
5. Considering the rise of instances of improper teacher-student relationships that are leading to criminal charges, we shouldn't expose good leaders to the risk of abuse and molestation charges (or worse) by introducing the opposite gender into a gender defined organization.
I think that it may be time to step down from my soapbox. Thank you for tolerating my thread and views.
OP
BC38,
I don't know if this is the answer you seek, but this is the significant difference that I see between Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I may be incorrect in some respects, but it won't be the first time.
Girl Scouts. Boy Scouts
Daisies. = K Cubs
Brownies. = Cub Scouts
Juniors. = Weblos
Cadets. = Boy Scouts
Ambassadors. = Explorers
In Girl Scouts (all levels), the ranks are achieved as "journeys", while in Boy Scouts (all levels) are the ranks we know: Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion, Weblos, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle. In the various Girl Scouts you have "fun patches" from fun activities, while in Boy Scouts you have over 100 merit badges unique to the interests of the Scout. Merit Badges (as are associated with Boy Scouts) just don't seem to exist in Girl Scouts. In Girl Scouts, the fun patches seem to be troop earned, without the individuality seen in Boy Scouts.
While there seems to be more structure in the ranks of Boy Scouts and a greater variety of achievements available to meet the interests of the boy, the same doesn't appear to be able to be said for the girls. In many respects, the merit badge structure seems to be more career identifying for the boys than what is offered for the girls.
OK, so they are organized differently. And why can the Girl Scouts NOT modify their program or add to it in order to incorporate an advancement track similar to the Boy Scouts? Why do the Boy Scouts have to change to admit girls instead of the existing girls organization changing to address these "deficiencies" in their program?
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OP
Sir, sadly you have asked the million dollar question that I am not in a position to answer.
That is what I was talking about in one of my previous posts. I happen to have in hand the Girl Scout Handbook from when I was a member. At that time there were 115 merit badges to be earned in a wide variety fields. Yes, I just now counted them.
Some are individual work and some were as a troop, most were a combination.
The Girl Scout organization is failing many girls that have interests in the outdoors, nature, animals, exploring career choices, and lots of other things.
I'll admit I don't much knowledge of either the Boy or Girl Scout programs currently. I do know that locally numbers are way down for both. 4-H is very big here especially since their programs have expanded considerably. It is no longer Cattle & Hogs for the boys and cooking & sewing for the girls. Yes, there is even a shooting club.
Grayback
US Veteran
Girl Boy Scouts
They already did.....the next thing will be a Day Care Center
on all new "boats".
They already did.....the next thing will be a Day Care Center
on all new "boats".
Exactly !!!
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