reloaded some 38sp cases newbie

[Zorbas]

Hi guys just reloaded ten 38special cases my first lot just want to know if they will be okay
going to shoot them through a Smith and Wesson 357mag revolver 686 6inch barrel
Case 38SP
Primers federal small pistol
Projectile 158gr SWCL
Powder Unique 3.5gr also 5@ 3.7gr
Using a dillon 550B progressive press factory set for 38 Special,
all advice accepted

 

[gwpercle]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook gives 4.0 grains of Unique as a starting load and 4.5 grains as the maximum.
You are well below the starting load. Safety will not be an issue.

Unique is a powder that needs a certain amount of pressure to burn cleanly , I never had much luck going below 4.0 grains. For years I tried to make Unique a target / light load powder in 38 special. It does OK but not great , at 3.5 and 3.7 grs you might find some unburned flakes...low pressure = incomplete burn.
If you do have these problems and/or not great accuracy , bump the charge up to 4.0 grains. It does better at mid range velocities.
Unique is a good powder, I have used it for 50 years , for a long time I used it for all my cast bullet reloading handgun and rifle.
You might get a lot of replies slamming Unique , don't listen , Unique works on everything except light target loads...here Bullseye wins. You can light load with Bullseye all day long.
If I could have only one powder it would be Unique.
Welcome to the site ,
Load Safe,
Gary

 

[Old_Cop]

Sounds like it might be a little light for a starting load. Guide says 4.7 minus 5% to start. You must be sure that you do not double charge. Make sure that each round exits the barrel and stop shooting if any different sound happens.

 

[Bakebfr480]

Don't go BELOW the starting load!!!

 

[scooter123]

Sounds like it might be a little light for a starting load. Guide says 4.7 minus 5% to start. You must be sure that you do not double charge. Make sure that each round exits the barrel and stop shooting if any different sound happens.

Take CAREFUL note of this recomendation. Because your loads probably border on the energy produced by a 22LR. I would expect those 3.5 grain load to produce something in the range of 450-550 fps and that is slow enough that if you have enough leading in your barrel you could squib the bullet in the barrel.

BTW, per Alliant's data and the old Rule of Thumb about Max-10% your starting charge should be 4.23 grains. Your starting charge could best be described as Max-25% and that is too light. I know, you are trying to be extra safe. However Gun Powders need a certain amount of pressure to burn properly and the 38 special starts on at a rather low pressure and reducing it this much with a light charge poses the real potential for a squib due to severely restricted combustion due to pressure that is too low to establish a good flame front.

 

[Forrest r]

Most powders tend to be best towards the upper end of their recommended loads. They burn cleaner & are more efficient. If you look around at the different reloading manuals they list some powders with a wide range of +/- for that powder. Others like clays/titegroup have very narrow windows, they are high energy powders.

It's good to be safe/start low with any powder/bullet combo you've never used/tried. The powders with the wider range of weights tend to be more forgiving.

Unique has been around forever. A lot of people have used unique in the 38spl's. Myself I've used unique and a lest 10 different bullet combo's in the 38spl's over the decades. It's always performed at it's best in the hot to p+ loads. Seeings how you are loading for a 686 you might want to bring your loads up to at least the minimum recommended starting load.

 

[Alk8944]

Heed the remarks above!!!!!!

When you shoot these be very careful to be sure the bullets exit the barrel before firing the next round! Your load is too light and you have a good chance of sticking a bullet in the barrel, which is a safety issue, for the gun!

 

[Rule3]

Sounds like it might be a little light for a starting load. Guide says 4.7 minus 5% to start. You must be sure that you do not double charge. Make sure that each round exits the barrel and stop shooting if any different sound happens.

Actually Alliant says to reduce by 10%

But regardless the OP loads are to light.

Start load would be 4.2 gr, but that is for Speer LSWC which I do belive are soft, not hard cast cast lead.


Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Those loads should be dismantled.........

My 686 6" did not like 4.0 grs of Unique and did not get good
accuracy with a lead 158 bullet until I loaded 4.4 grs of powder.

The maximum 38 loading in my L frame is 5 grs of Unique at around 909fps
which is a Full Load in my little steel J frame snub nose.

 

[StakeOut]

When I load Unique in 38spl cases under a 158gr LSWC bullet I use 5.0gr for a +P loading.

For standard target loads I go with 2.8gr of Bullseye or 3.3gr of Titegroup.

If you load 148gr HBWC bullets that are seated fully into the case reduce the Bullseye to 2.7gr.

A 2.3gr charge of Clays also works very nicely in 38spl for target shooting under the 158gr LSWC bullet.

These days I load mostly 357 magnum cases for use in 686-4 revolvers for paper target shooting.
158gr LSWC = 4.0gr Titegroup
148gr HBWC = 3.3gr of Titegroup

 

[Sevens]

Everyone has made excellent points, here is another:

REVOLVERS HAVE AN ESCAPE ROUTE FOR MUCH NEEDED PRESSURE

The flash gap between cylinder and forcing cone is an open valve where pressure bleeds off and when you make a load that is too light, the bullet moves toward the forcing cone and seemingly everything "would" work but then it hits massive resistance from the barrel and if the momentum isn't enough to carry it further, the bullet stops or slows greatly and the powder burn cannot build up that much needed pressure to make the bullet continue because that pressure escapes via the flash gap.

When handloading for revolver, OH YES, you can most definitely make loads that are too light.

Lead bullets are more forgiving as they are easier to force down a revolver's barrel. Plated and Jacketed bullets are damn difficult to get down a bore and they will RESIST, and if you have made over-cautious and far too light loads, you will eventually get a bullet stuck in your bore.

Bullet stuck in your barrel usually ends the range day for that gun. If you shoot ANOTHER round behind it, now you are totally in a world of hurt.

 

[Wise_A]

Going .3 gr under with Unique isn't going to cause a squib. That's sort of the whole point of Unique as a powder. It works across a wide range of pressures.

Going under in something like WW-296, on the other hand, isn't a good idea.

I'd imagine these loads will be a tad sooty, and possibly not the most accurate things in the world, but far from dangerous. If you want to load light in .38 Spl, my suggestion would be WST, HP-38, and Bullseye.

 

[rwsmith]

Reason being....

Going under in something like WW-296, on the other hand, isn't a good idea.

Spl, my suggestion would be WST, HP-38, and Bullseye.

Reason being that very slow powders burn erratically or incompletely when loaded to too low of a pressure. A low charge is NOT going to blow up, but if it doesn't burn well and you stick a bullet in the barrel and fire again you stand a good chance of incurring damage to the gun and maybe you.

Some powders are 'position sensitive' and how well they burn is related to whether the powder is near the primer or near the bullet when fired. Most magnum loads take magnum primers. In order to keep inventory straight you can use magnum primers in all of your loads, by backing off the powder charge a few tenths of a grain.

 

[Mistered]

Since you have a .357 why not just load some 'light' .357 with Unique? This is what I do. As the others have said Unique is a great powder but it does have its limitations with light loads like .38. I recently loaded 7 grains of Unique with 125 grain LSWC bullets and it is a very accurate load.

 

[Wise_A]

Reason being that very slow powders burn erratically or incompletely when loaded to too low of a pressure. A low charge is NOT going to blow up, but if it doesn't burn well and you stick a bullet in the barrel and fire again you stand a good chance of incurring damage to the gun and maybe you.

What I'm suggesting is that the "floor" for that happening is a hell of a lot lower than 3.7 gr of Unique under a 158 in a Spl case. Lyman's 50th lists 4.0 as a starting load for a 158, with a pressure of 13.1k CUP. The same manual also lists 3.4 gr under a 155 as generating 8.6k CUP--and apparently still burning.

I'd still suggest a much faster powder for loading light in the .38 Spl, but it's nothing to do with pressure and more to do with picking a powder that's happier delivering lower velocities. Which is part of the reason why, although the Holy Triumvirate of BE/Unique/2400 would do everything I need handgun ammunition to do, I've got 7 other powders on my bench.

SIDE NOTE: I'd be willing to bet money that, were time travel possible, we'd be able to trace back the overwhelming majority of squibs caused by "light loads" to partial drops. The smaller the volume of powder you're dropping, the greater the chance for any measure to dispense less than a full charge. Especially with variable-cavity powder measures, which account for the overwhelming majority of the market.

 

[Triggernosis]

Other than Unique, what are some other powders that work well over a wide range of load weights?

 

[cowboy4evr]

To answer your question honestly I suggest getting a reloading manual . The LEE manual has a very large selection of powders to consider and their load data . Regards , Paul

 

[WR Moore]

I'd personally suggest either the general Lyman manual or their lead bullet manual if you're loading lead/plated. Read the parts about how to reload. Several times.

Unique likes mid to higher pressure loads for complete burns and more uniform performance. I'll also note that air rifle velocities (very low) generally produce lousy accuracy. Being a slower burning rate powder, Unique is more forgiving of variations in individual charge weights. I use it in a wide variety of calibers, but the loads in any one caliber don't vary all that much in weight. But then my general intent is factory duplication or something other than maximum conceivable velocity.

I expect you don't have a chronograph. With that in mind, bullet seating depth can have major impacts on performance. When I got a whole bunch of plated 158 gr .38 Berry Target Hollow Points, I suddenly realized that I only had a roll crimping seating die (I've since corrected this.) and the bullets had no crimping groove. So my first loads had the bullet seated deep so that the crimp was over the leading edge of the bullet body (kinda like a wadcutter). I found I could reduce my powder charge 0.5 gr of Unique and still keep the same factory duplication velocity. When I got the new seater, I discovered that at the suggested LOAL of 1.45 " the velocities with 4.8 gr of Unique were both low and had high deviations. Dropping the LOAL to 1.4" got me back up to factory velocites and ironed out the deviation. Shorta raised the compression ratio to use an automotive reference.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

You should have bought a good reloading manual, Lyman, Hornady etc. Then you should have read and studied it before you started reloading.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[Zorbas]

Thank you all for much valued feed back
will take it all onboard Yes I will be picking up A reloading manual before I load any more cases as I'm just starting out and think I was a little to safe with the powder load think best to pull those rounds and start with 4gr unique much appreciated cheers Z