Trump has ordered a ban on bump stocks

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Bump Stocks and AR-15s

When the bump stock issue burst upon the scene following the Las Vegas shooting, I heard it said or read somewhere that military rifles intended for full-auto fire have components that are hardened a bit differently than a civilian version AR-15. Consequently, that civilian rifle will not hold up to repeated full auto fire, or equivalent such as the bump stock or messing with the disconnect.
 
The President 'urging'.....

...doesn't amount to anything, even though he has a strong influence on about everything. What will matter is proposed legislation and even then only if it's accepted and proposed for debate in Congress.
 
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Wasn't that school that got shot up by that kid in Florida a "gun free zone"? when will politicians & the general public realize that criminals by their very nature are criminals because they don't obey the law? Law abiding citizens will leave their licensed carry guns in the car because well, they're law abiding citizens. But someone bent on causing as much harm as possible will find a way, gun laws or not.

With that being said, on Sootch_00's Instagram on one of his posts mentioning the ban on bumpstocks, I brought up that perhaps the gun community should offer a compromise. I personally don't see the need for LGS to sell to the general public level 3 body armor. I see no purpose for a 50rnd drum magazine. or a 30 round Glock magazine. But that is my opinion. Boy did I get ripped on by most of the commenters. "F" words were flying at me from all angles.

How does that type of conduct make us, responsible gun owners look good in the public eye if we can't even offer a well intended opinion or a solution amongst ourselves?
 
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How does that type of conduct make us, responsible gun owners look good in the public eye if we can't even offer a well intended opinion or a solution amongst ourselves?

Because common ground doesn’t exist. We counter their extremists with our own. Or we lose the game. Nobody ever crosses the aisle. All votes are along party lines. Mindless. We are broken.
 
Wasn't that school that got shot up by that kid in Florida a "gun free zone"? when will politicians & the general public realize that criminals by their very nature are criminals because they don't obey the law? Law abiding citizens will leave their licensed carry guns in the car because well, they're law abiding citizens. But someone bent on causing as much harm as possible will find a way, gun laws or not.

With that being said, on Sootch_00's Instagram on one of his posts mentioning the ban on bumpstocks, I brought up that perhaps the gun community should offer a compromise. I personally don't see the need for LGS to sell to the general public level 3 body armor. I see no purpose for a 50rnd drum magazine. or a 30 round Glock magazine. But that is my opinion. Boy did I get ripped on by most of the commenters. "F" words were flying at me from all angles.

How does that type of conduct make us, responsible gun owners look good in the public eye if we can't even offer a well intended opinion or a solution amongst ourselves?

I am probably going to get slammed but I also see no problem at them setting the age limit to purchase an AR style rifle to 21 years old. If you look at almost all the cases causing the terrible school deaths and then the backlash on gun owners, most of them involve a high school age kid with an issue. I do not believe that most of these kids are insane, they just don't give a **** about anything and think that a gun is going to even the score that they have with a teacher or some students.

As for arming teachers, that is IMHO is a really bad idea. It can have very serious consequences if one day a fed up teacher decides to shoot an unruly student (and you know that will happen), worst yet a teacher that has a mental breakdown and locks the classroom door and takes out the whole class.

They say it takes a good man with a gun to take down a bad man with a gun. Well they had a good man with a gun at the school and he did nothing. It's human nature, some people will run into the fire while others are running away. It's just way to complicated given the thousands of schools to find people that will actually be useful in these situations. Its just a better idea to up the age limit and give some ground before the ground falls out from underneath us.

I have high school age kids and I am scared to death that one of these incidents is going to happen at their school.

Just My 2 cents, Flame suit on!
 
The NRA has been trying to get them to arm school staff for years and its already started. Trump wants to arm all these retired military vets in our school system; there are thousands of veterans in the educational system, and this WILL work. I think they will do a lot better job than the three deputies here in Florida who crouched outside behind their cars and refused to engage the killer! I am not for banning bump stocks but I think Trump has a plan to protect our 2nd Amendment.
 
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The only difference...

....is whether a person will accept regulation or not. If not, everything stays as it is. If so, there will be a lot of disagreement on the DEGREE and method of regulation. I think that that's the part most people disagree on so I don't think that's such a big problem between us gun owners, EXCEPT that it appears that we aren't on a united front and therefore, will have weaker resolve.
 
The efforts to ban "bump stocks" have so far only raised prices on them and brought them far more attention than they deserve.

I'm more concerned about the "raise the age for long guns to 21" position that he has taken. Does that mean that an 18 year old can't buy a 10/22?

There's probably a separate thread on that issue, that I haven't seen.
 
I believe that ATF does not have the authority to ban firearm accessories. In order to put legal restrictions on bump stocks, it will require Congress to pass a bill and be signed by the President.

If such a law is passed, what about those that are owned prior to the law? Can the Government just take them away without compensation? Are the ones possessed before the law going to be grandfathered? How do you determine when they were originally possessed? Will there be an amnesty period where they can be registered as NFA items? If there is an amnesty, will it be for just bump stocks or for any NFA firearm?
 
It amuses me that a proposed law to ban full-auto conversion devices would be considered a "fix" to anything. In fact, it's already on the books. Early AR-15s could be converted to full auto with a paper clip, providing civilian primers were used in the ammo. The equivalent of a "bump stock" can be a couple of strong rubber bands, all of which begs the question - do we ban paper clips and rubber bands????

Blaming inanimate objects for human aberrations and actions is futile, same as blaming many for the actions of a few. Here in Arizona, a father decapitated his 5-year-old son with a kitchen knife and buried him (both parts) in his back yard. No call for banning kitchen knives anywhere, as far as I know. A hammer, mis-used, can be extremely deadly - and we all know about vehicles driven with malice aforethought.

Universal background checks are a laugh. We all know that criminals are called criminals because they do not obey the law. By the same token, getting tough on data entry of info on mentally ill folks into the NICS makes sense, as does hardening potential target areas. Beyond that, human behavior cannot be "controlled." What makes someone go off their rocker? I don't know, and it's virtually impossible to predict.

We have hundreds of millions of people in the U.S. If just .01% of the populace is potentially harmful to others, that means thousands are out there that could turn into mass murderers. Unfortunately, that is one of the downsides of the freedoms we all enjoy. Even a police state would not be the cure. We all need to be alert to our surroundings, report suspicious activity, and personally prepare for the unexpected.

John
 
Many would make, and have made recently, the argument that the adult with the gun at the school was not a "good man . . . "

Well now we know we have 3 more officers at the scene who are I guess also "Not Good Men". Look we all know that not everyone has the guts to do what is needed. It does not make them Bad Men, they might be called cowards or whatever but my point is your not going to know who is a "Good Man" until the situation arises.

I know plenty of ex military guys who would fold during a shooting like that because they would have a bad episode of PTSD and even if they did go in I am not so sure of what they might do in that mental state.

Lastly I don't want my kids to be entering a military camp every morning. I don't want them to be reminded by the guys at the entrance with the AR's that they are always in possible danger. That's not what school is supposed to be about and personally I am not going to be pro second amendment if it means my kids have to live in a state of constant fear. No sir when it comes down to those two choices my kids win out every time.
 
Not that I've done it or would show how it's done, I can get full auto from an AR with a "proper" rubber band. I can waste ammo pretty fast without an "assistive device." Joe
 
Well now we know we have 3 more officers at the scene who are I guess also "Not Good Men". Look we all know that not everyone has the guts to do what is needed. It does not make them Bad Men, they might be called cowards or whatever but my point is your not going to know who is a "Good Man" until the situation arises.

To a degree, I agree. I do find it perplexing that we keep uncovering more defenders who were there on the scene and elected not to take action. This has an aura of perhaps having the wrong people at the right place. Were these individuals properly trained for the risks that they were placed to face? We don't seem to have those answers yet. I am thinking, perhaps they were not, and this just adds to the pile another ball that may have been dropped leading up to this terrible incident. There is a lot of fault to be spread around concerning this incident, and I do not think we have uncovered all of it yet. But we must uncover it to reduce the chances of it happening again.

I know plenty of ex military guys who would fold during a shooting like that because they would have a bad episode of PTSD and even if they did go in I am not so sure of what they might do in that mental state.

Being ex-military myself, I know of what you speak, and I do not think that just any "ex-military guys" should be put in school hallways with weapons. I do, although, know far more that would be suitable than the few I know that would not. And far far fewer that would be suitable without proper training. I am not convinced that putting defensive weapons in the hands of just any teacher or vet is a good idea at all. I foresee a new industry sprouting soon that will become the Blackwater for schools.

Lastly I don't want my kids to be entering a military camp every morning. I don't want them to be reminded by the guys at the entrance with the AR's that they are always in possible danger. That's not what school is supposed to be about and personally I am not going to be pro second amendment if it means my kids have to live in a state of constant fear. No sir when it comes down to those two choices my kids win out every time.

Again, I agree, I don't want my kids (well, grandchildren) to be entering a military camp every morning, either. Who does? But recall that some acts of mass violence have taken place on military bases, which have pretty much been reduced to places where guns are not carried anymore. IMHO proper and highly effective security does not station guards with rifles at doorways. There are many much more effective ways to provide better security. But I'm afraid you may have to accept metal detectors as a way of life at schools just as you do at a courthouse, airport, or professional ball game.
Unfortunately, we all seem to be in more potential danger than we were several decades ago, not just kids in school.
If you think that rescinding the Second Amendment would give us a safer environment, I am anxious to see your vision of just how that would work. Thus far I see very little evidence that laws have very much impact on criminals. If fewer liberties and more gun restrictions was the answer, Chicago would be a Utopian garden spot. I don't want our kids in constant fear either. Again we agree. But, there always seems to be something to fear. I vividly recall sitting in classrooms with windows cracked open and candles burning to eliminate the threat of Polio which, if you survived, would land you in an iron lung, and every month we practiced drills intended to save us from nuclear blasts from the evil Red Menace.
I submit to you that our children will live in less fear with a functional Second Amendment than they will without it.
I am all for the kids, too, but reality must creep in to the solutions we offer up. Disarming law abiding citizens is even less attractive in today's atmosphere of terrorism than it was a few years ago when we didn't have the problems that face us today. That approach totally discounts the roots of the problems we face (mental health, poor parenting, terrorism from within and abroad, etc. ) and removes the ability to defend ourselves and loved ones. I will spare the history lesson as to why the Second Amendment exists in the first place, but suffice it to say that it was implemented to eliminate social threats and fears that were different, but very real at the time.
Now is the time to give serious thoughts to our failures as a society, and work towards addressing those issues, which I would hope would help us all feel better about the world we are forming to be left to our children. Yes, the kids deserve better than what we have to leave them with at this point.
 
Are bump stocks and similar novelties protected by the 2A? Not the way I read Heller. I get the whole slippery slope philosophy, but to my mind this is a battle not worth fighting. If giving the antis this low hanging fruit, I say give it to ‘em. Makes us look benevolent without giving them anything meaningful. They love meaningless gestures.
 
Well now we know we have 3 more officers at the scene who are I guess also "Not Good Men". Look we all know that not everyone has the guts to do what is needed. It does not make them Bad Men, they might be called cowards or whatever but my point is your not going to know who is a "Good Man" until the situation arises.

I know plenty of ex military guys who would fold during a shooting like that because they would have a bad episode of PTSD and even if they did go in I am not so sure of what they might do in that mental state.

Lastly I don't want my kids to be entering a military camp every morning. I don't want them to be reminded by the guys at the entrance with the AR's that they are always in possible danger. That's not what school is supposed to be about and personally I am not going to be pro second amendment if it means my kids have to live in a state of constant fear. No sir when it comes down to those two choices my kids win out every time.
Very well. What do you propose to do? Will the guards at a bank scare your children? Do the movies with gunfights and science fiction intergalactic warfare instill fear?
What, if not the rule of law and respect for life makes an education complete?
The world we live in has people who are willing to do harm to others, not only in schools, but in the great arena of the world.
So I ask, again, “What do you propose?”
 
Well now we know we have 3 more officers at the scene who are I guess also "Not Good Men". Look we all know that not everyone has the guts to do what is needed. It does not make them Bad Men, they might be called cowards or whatever but my point is your not going to know who is a "Good Man" until the situation arises.

I know plenty of ex military guys who would fold during a shooting like that because they would have a bad episode of PTSD and even if they did go in I am not so sure of what they might do in that mental state.

Lastly I don't want my kids to be entering a military camp every morning. I don't want them to be reminded by the guys at the entrance with the AR's that they are always in possible danger. That's not what school is supposed to be about and personally I am not going to be pro second amendment if it means my kids have to live in a state of constant fear. No sir when it comes down to those two choices my kids win out every time.


Ok, Ya know we all are living in a dangerous world right?

Let's jest let this guy guard the school..........Ol Yukon won't scare em much. :rolleyes:

Yukon_Cornelius.jpg



Back on topic.........A Bump stock ban is just a kneejerk feely thing.

Those that are bent on doing evil, will find a way.


.
 
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Are bump stocks and similar novelties protected by the 2A? Not the way I read Heller. I get the whole slippery slope philosophy, but to my mind this is a battle not worth fighting. If giving the antis this low hanging fruit, I say give it to ‘em. Makes us look benevolent without giving them anything meaningful. They love meaningless gestures.

Think back to all the "compromises" that have been struck between "us and them." Have we (the pro-gun people) ever gotten anything? (Well, other than "if you will give up this, we won't go after that NOW).

I don't see a reason for bump stocks. I don't care about bump stocks. The issue is that the anti's are pursuing a no guns platform. They are patient and see every compromise as a victory.

Think about it, what other constitutionally protected right (either enumerated or implied) has been restricted other than gun rights? Voting has only been expanded. The right of the free press has only been expanded. Civil rights have only been expanded.

Another example is if a person is convicted of a felony. They lose many of their rights during the time of incarceration and/or probation, i.e. until they are discharged. At that time (in most states) they regain their right to vote, to hold office etc. They do not; however, regain their gun rights. They are prohibited from buying a gun or possessing a firearm for LIFE.

Unfortunately, gun owners are treated as second class citizens. If we give on bump stocks the anti's see it as a win. It sets a precedent for the banning of some other feature that they don't like the looks of.

Instead of compromising, we should demand more. They can't despise us any more than they already do. The media can't demonize us any more than they already do.

What do we have to lose, everything. What do they have to lose, nothing.
 
Very well. What do you propose to do? Will the guards at a bank scare your children? Do the movies with gunfights and science fiction intergalactic warfare instill fear?
What, if not the rule of law and respect for life makes an education complete?
The world we live in has people who are willing to do harm to others, not only in schools, but in the great arena of the world.
So I ask, again, “What do you propose?”


I already stated it in my first post. Raise the age to 21 for the purchasing and handling of any AR type weapon. Most of these shootings involve angry kids trying to get back at teachers or classmates.
 
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