Dancing FBI agent in custody

[sigp220.45]

The torch and pitchfork crowd here has changed my way of thinking.

I believe the world would be a much better place if Bill Jordan had been fired from the Border Patrol in 1956 and prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter for playing quick draw with the very first Combat Magnum and killing his boss, John A. Rector. A stretch in the pen, followed by a career bagging groceries and an ignoble death in a flophouse would be much better than long service as a lawman and a successful stint as a gunwriter and ambassador for the shooting sports! After all, he MEANT to pull the trigger.

Thanks, fellas!

 

[Watchdog]

The guy messed up. Stupid, criminal, negligent, accident, however you want to term it; it was unfortunate. Two lives were changed, that does not mean the solution is the guillotine.

I know you're exaggerating to make a point, but I didn't say that, did I? I don't wish the guy any physical harm at all.

Unfortunate, yes. Wonder how "unfortunate" it would be if the other guy had been killed?

 

[Wise_A]

I believe we all know better than that, it's just careless.

No, you don't. That's the point. And before I go on, review the other thread where I rip on Special Agent Clownshoes relentlessly, because he deserves it.

Go ahead and check the rulebooks for--oh, every action pistol sport ever. In each one that felt compelled to document the "dropped gun" procedure, you'll find that the standard is always "shooter steps back, RSO picks up the gun".

Why? Because dropping a gun and picking it up is dangerous, and people are prone to ****ing it up. That means you, me, and everyone else. The Booger Hook Chuckle and Holy Prayer of the Four Rules are the talismans we use to convince ourselves that it can't happen to us. Literally, the absolute worst, most disgustingly dangerous and reckless gun handling I've ever seen has come from "instructors" and Safety Sallies, because they think It Can't Happen To Them.

Christ, I saw a buffoon "demonstrate" the one-handed slide rack via belt--with a loaded, live pistol. In the 35 seconds it took this rube to get a round in the chamber, I beat feet. This same buffoon teaches some hopped-up IDPA safety course.

 

[The Big D]

Leave it on the floor?

Everyone knows the standard for dropping a gun, round, magazine, what have you, ON THE RANGE. Yep, ya leave it there 'til the range is declared 'safe.'

What was the S/A supposed to do? Leave his gun lying on the dance floor? He surely did make a realllllllllly bad mistake...one that has truly complicated his life with criminal charges pending adjudication. AND LEFT A BYSTANDER INJURED, YES.

Though the victim doesn't want him fired and has no plans to sue, some of you folks want him jailed, fired, sued, and Lord knows what else.

I posted herein that years ago my M60 fell out of my upside down shoulder holster whilst I was in Peirce Street Annex in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. My gun went cartwheeling across the floor before tumbling down a couple steps and coming to rest under a table. What was I supposed to do...leave it there?

I DID retrieve it...rather swiftly, in fact. Didn't fire it whilst doing so. Did not make a MISTAKE.

Goodness, so many folks here want to make an 'example' out of this S/A. He was DANCING and made a terrible error!!!

I hope it never happens again...to anyone...though it surely will. Cannot wait to see what some of you want to see as punishment for one who is NOT a government employee.

Be safe.

 

[pittpa]

It'll be pled to a misdemeanor.
Disturbing his piece.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[johngalt]

I had a post in the early thread. I did not make any demands that the agent be fired and his life forever ruined, nor do I condemn the entire FBI for one individual's mistake. That is simply absurd.

I just said that he should be treated the same under the law as any other honest citizen in a similar situation. I don't think that is unfair.

If this agent is being treated too harshly under the law for an unintentional mistake, granted with a serious result, perhaps we need to rethink this zero-tolerance self-righteous society, and the harshness of laws that has resulted. I wonder how many people would like to be judged to the same level of perfection they expect from everyone else.

I wasn't there, but apparently the victim isn't holding a grudge.

 

[venomballistics]

Everyone knows the standard for dropping a gun, round, magazine, what have you, ON THE RANGE. Yep, ya leave it there 'til the range is declared 'safe.'

What was the S/A supposed to do? Leave his gun lying on the dance floor? He surely did make a realllllllllly bad mistake...one that has truly complicated his life with criminal charges pending adjudication. AND LEFT A BYSTANDER INJURED, YES.

Though the victim doesn't want him fired and has no plans to sue, some of you folks want him jailed, fired, sued, and Lord knows what else.

I posted herein that years ago my M60 fell out of my upside down shoulder holster whilst I was in Peirce Street Annex in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. My gun went cartwheeling across the floor before tumbling down a couple steps and coming to rest under a table. What was I supposed to do...leave it there?

I DID retrieve it...rather swiftly, in fact. Didn't fire it whilst doing so. Did not make a MISTAKE.

Goodness, so many folks here want to make an 'example' out of this S/A. He was DANCING and made a terrible error!!!

I hope it never happens again...to anyone...though it surely will. Cannot wait to see what some of you want to see as punishment for one who is NOT a government employee.

Be safe.

Here ... lemme show you where the car is parked in relation to the law of the land upon which he stood, courtesy of CaptB

For those above who are concerned about the lack of "criminal intent", the Colorado law under which the young man is charged does not require any intent whatsoever.

This is the relevant language from their statute "He recklessly cause[d] serious bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon".

The elements of the offense are simple:
1. Recklessness (Check*),
2. Serious bodily injury to a person (Check*), and
3. Deadly weapon (Check).

That's it. Doesn't matter if it was accidental or intentional. If all of the above elements were present, it's a felony punishable by serious prison time. Having said that, I predict he will be allowed to plea to a lesser degree of assault or an offense involving unlawful discharge of a firearm. Maybe not. It all depends on the prosecutor and with the video it looks like a slam dunk case.

* It goes without saying that a defense attorney can argue that the agent's actions don't meet the accepted legal definition of recklessness, and that the victim's injuries are not "serious". I'm just pointing out what the law says. The agent is innocent until proven guilty.

next issue he may face is possession while intoxicated.
Given his conduct and the venue in which he conducted ... probability favors this getting tacked on later.

 

[Harbinger_of_lead]

I'll take that bet. He's been arrested. That counts as a day served. As for your latter statement, otherwise normal people who run afoul of the law handle the entire situation more professionally, regardless of their position. They hire a good lawyer, they post property as bail to get out, and they show up for court. Your aspersions are misplaced . . .

His day in Denver Jail, in a suit he wore, is not DOC (department of corrections) custody. That was a day in jail. DOC is for convicts.

Yes, I will take the $100 bet. Because there is no way they are going to send him to prison.

My point remains that he has and will continue to get special treatment. If that was John q public, he would have been arrested and booked that night. Not two weeks later, in a suit and a negotiated date and time.

 

[keith44spl]

"playing quick draw with his very first Combat Magnum"

Way back in the mid 70's, we were all getting the new model 66s.

A trooper that I knew back then was demonstrating his quick draw for a few gals in the radio room.

OOPS, he let one go, right into a brand-new radio console.

Wasn't much said about it, he just faded away without any fanfare.



* I truly hate an innocent party caught a bullet in this clausal goat roping.
And I hope this ex-agent finds a suitable career that'll fit his pistol a little better.

.

 

[Muss Muggins]

His day in Denver Jail, in a suit he wore, is not DOC (department of corrections) custody. That was a day in jail. DOC is for convicts.

DOC will give him credit for that day, because he was in custody and couldn't leave, thus making a sentence of "time served" possible . . .

 

[nachogrande]

I SUPPOSE...

Life lessons are best learned at a young age. They become SO MUCH more expensive when older.

 

[TomkinsSP]

The Law Enforcement Officers Safey Act, I believe allows us (LEOs)
to be armed in other judications and or location other that our duty station judication.

I don't believe it gives any of us a free roll, if or when we commit stupid in the first degree.
Or any other violation of the criminal code or civil dis-obedience.


.

JMO LEOSA is most useful to retired officers because it is a piece of Federal legislation providing a ready avenue to federal courts to prevent overreaching State officials from creatively interpreting laws in an overly restrictive fashion. As they are able to do with the rest of the citizenry. (Better stop here before we cross the politics threshold.)

 

[zzclancy]

BAC

...of course they are reporting..."gun went off"...

...pulling the trigger will do it every time...

I what to know what his BAC was. He deserves NO special treatment! Do stupid things, win stupid prizes.

 

[zzclancy]

Trend

Shameful, pathetic moment for the FBI.

Seems to be the trend for what was once one of the most respected agencies.

 

[keith44spl]

JMO LEOSA is most useful to retired officers because it is a piece of Federal legislation providing a ready avenue to federal courts to prevent overreaching State officials from creatively interpreting laws in an overly restrictive fashion. As they are able to do with the rest of the citizenry. (Better stop here before we cross the politics threshold.)

Yes it is,
as a state firearms instructor, I've qualified many retired officers for their annual re-qualifications.


.

 

[nachogrande]

YEAH, JUST ASK J.EDGAR.

Seems to be the trend for what was once one of the most respected agencies.

The dress code has changed too.

 

[CapnB]

I what to know what his BAC was. He deserves NO special treatment! Do stupid things, win stupid prizes.

His blood alcohol level isn't relevant to the crime with which he is currently charged. I understand it could lead to an additional minor charge, which someone above said is classified as a misdemeanor.

I'm more interested in knowing if he consented to having his blood drawn, or if they had to wake up a judge at 2:00 a.m. to get a warrant.

Regardless, it certainly doesn't appear that he is receiving any special treatment.

 

[Walkingwolf]

LEOSA was in response to the attacks of the world trade center. Oddly I don't think LEO, or RLEO can carry on a commercial flight while not engaged in official duty armed.

It only covers concealed carry, and I open carry. For my backup I find the five year renewal of a permit that is open to all law abiding citizens more palatable.

I also find that LEOSA is an attack on the right of the people to keep, and bear arms. It was supported by an anti gun senator, and that should tell ya a lot. It is gun control, it limits carry in those states that make carry difficult to ONLY LEO, and RLEO exactly who(no offense) the threat the second amendment was put in place for. In Colonial America the British Army was the police.

I appreciate the value of LEOSA to the officers that make use of it. But if a state does not allow me to carry as a citizen I will not go there. For me personally I will never use it, it goes against my support of the 2A.

My last words on LEOSA it is not relevant to this case IMO.

 

[M29since14]

I think one thing we can all be pretty sure of is this - he's NOT going to actually go to prison. I think that's a given, and even though I don't think he needs to keep his gun-toting FBI job, I wouldn't want to see him sent to prison. We already send way too many people to prison in cases where it serves no purpose. No reason to send another one.

 

[muddocktor]

I personally am glad they are charging this goofball with second-degree assault. And I really don't hope that he spends lots of time in the crossbar hotel, but I personally don't want this person carrying a firearm around in public. If he is dumb (or drunk and dumb) enough to throw his booger hook inside the trigger guard when picking the weapon up, he doesn't need to be carrying a firearm. My Dad taught me to not put a finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire the weapon and picking up a gun isn't a time to be putting a finger inside the trigger guard.

This guy might not have a job in law enforcement after this episode, but it shouldn't "ruin his life". He's young enough to learn another profession or go into something else relating to law enforcement that doesn't require him to handle guns for the job. Even though he has probably learned his lesson after this stupidity, I still don't trust him as far as I could throw him to not pull yet another dumb move.