venomballistics
Member
I'm going to repost this in case someone misses it ... this is some of the most useful content of the thread
Dancing FBI agent in custody
- Thread starter Rpg
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I'm going to repost this in case someone misses it ... this is some of the most useful content of the thread
I always get interviewed by the pilot and have to show my letter. Really hard to do flying on retired credentials. . .
There are a few exceptions to active LEOs of state agencies or local PDs & Sherriff Dept. officers flying armed.
(That I will not disseminate here)
Not any exceptions to the rules for retires (LEOSA) that I am aware of.
But, it's been a few years since I complete the TSA flying armed course. Rules change all the time.
This thread has drift'd way off course.....But, the waters are much more calm.
.
Arizona Ghost
Member
Ah, the joys of alcohol.
keith44spl
Member
Everyone knows the standard for dropping a gun, round, magazine, what have you, ON THE RANGE. Yep, ya leave it there 'til the range is declared 'safe.'
What was the S/A supposed to do? Leave his gun lying on the dance floor? :confused
I posted herein that years ago my M60 fell out of my upside down shoulder holster whilst I was in Peirce Street Annex in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. My gun went cartwheeling across the floor before tumbling down a couple steps and coming to rest under a table. What was I supposed to do...leave it there?
I DID retrieve it...rather swiftly, in fact. Didn't fire it whilst doing so. Did not make a MISTAKE.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you just not know how to politely ask a question?
You made precisely the same error that Clownshoes did: you tried to pick it up quickly. Failing to clip Old Lady Carmody isn't proof what you did was right.
The gun isn't going to magically fire sitting there. Stop, take a breath, take control of the area (in some locales, yes--that might mean standing on your gun), and then take your time. Maybe there's a safe direction you can point it. Maybe there's someone in the immediate vicinity that would move if you asked nicely.
Guns go off because fingers squeeze triggers. And fingers squeeze triggers when people act hastily.
If anything, you are proof of my point: "See, I dropped my gun, and I didn't shoot anybody! All you have to do is not make a mistake!" That's pretty Clownshoes.
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Dude. I've been involved in dozens of dynamic entries where a gun hit the deck. Your first reaction is always to get control quickly . . .
keith44spl
Member
Ain't it the truth......^^^^^^^^^^
That's why I had a lanyard on mine.
If I drop'd it, I could jest reel er in by the cord.
No trigger pullin needed.
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susieqz
Absent Comrade
big d, you surprise me.
it is absolutely possible to pick up a gun without touching the trigger.
keeping y finger out of the trigger guard has been drilled into me to the point that there would be no thinking involved.
i simply would automatically never touch the trigger.
he was not being shot at, after all.
it is absolutely possible to pick up a gun without touching the trigger.
keeping y finger out of the trigger guard has been drilled into me to the point that there would be no thinking involved.
i simply would automatically never touch the trigger.
he was not being shot at, after all.
4506517
Member
I'm going to give this thread about 10-12 more posts before the lock.
Think...
....you might have confused me with someone else.
I did pick up my gun without touching the trigger.
Be safe.
....you might have confused me with someone else.
I did pick up my gun without touching the trigger.
Be safe.
Oh, please.
Do you think I vaulted the railing, did a tactical roll, and then dove under the table?
In fact, had I not collected my gun swiftly it is altogether possible others might have claimed it.
FTR, like most professional LEO's I did NOT panic; that's likely due to the fact I have experienced myriad very serious interactions...in person...not behind a keyboard.
Be safe.
Do you think I vaulted the railing, did a tactical roll, and then dove under the table?
In fact, had I not collected my gun swiftly it is altogether possible others might have claimed it.
FTR, like most professional LEO's I did NOT panic; that's likely due to the fact I have experienced myriad very serious interactions...in person...not behind a keyboard.
Be safe.
susieqz
Absent Comrade
oh, big d, i wasn't impugning your skills.
i was commenting on your defense of defendant's sloppy
gun handling.
since no one was shooting at him, there was no excuse for touching that trigger.
i was commenting on your defense of defendant's sloppy
gun handling.
since no one was shooting at him, there was no excuse for touching that trigger.
So, whatta y'all think about that raccoon scaled the skyscraper in St. Paul a coupla days back?
Just ambitious or plain loco?
Just ambitious or plain loco?
It may very well be that as we get older and law enforcement personal get younger that more incidents like this will occur simply because in this day and age the consequences of actions are seldom considered by the "young". A "modern" phenomena?
Was he actually wearing a holster? If so was it approved, or had he been watching too much TV and carrying in his waist band?
Many years ago I was based in a station where the main car was authorised to carry firearms 24/7. In practice this only occurred at night. One afternoon an armed incident occurred and everyone rushed to the station safe to arm up. (This was early-mid 90's when issue firearms were S&W model 10's and Remmington Model 7 .223 rifles).
I had just finished loading my rifle when I turned to my right. The young cop beside me swung (ouch, too much TV) the cylinder of his model 10 closed then turned towards me with his finger inside the trigger guard of the revolver.
I slapped that pistol down and away so fast everyone else wondered what had happened. The protestations of "My finger wasn't on the trigger" meant nothing.
A few years later I did my Glock transition training with this young cop, who was now a detective (defective??) and made sure to tell the story in a group session without naming the person involved. The instructors went ballistic about how stupid he was and he should not have been in the job. His fellow cops said my reaction was mild to what theirs would have been.
I understand the NYPD has a zero alcohol while carrying off duty policy (along with a 24 hr requirement to carry). Can someone in the know advise what the FBI policy is?
Near where I am now several years ago a sole charge officer an hour from he nearest city and 45 minutes from the nearest town, was off duty playing golf on a Sunday. He visited the 19th hole afterwards.. When he got home (police house next to the station) he carried on drinking with his mates. A crash occurred 10 minutes away and as his patrol car contained the emergency oxygen supply he decided to put himself on duty and attend. A highway patrol officer spoke to him, noted his alcohol intake and took the appropriate actions.
The judge discharge the cop without a conviction due to the circumstances. He kept his job but was transferred out of his position and we now have strict off duty guidelines. We are witnesses first, cops only when absolutely necessary, and any alcohol consumed means it is never absolutely necessary.
About 10 years ago there was a hostage situation in a beachside hotel that went on for almost 24 hours. Our Armed Offenders Squad (SWAT team) responded, as did AOS squads from another two cities. One of those squads was not on call. Several members had had a small amount of alcohol that afternoon/evening at a barbecue. Although not on call they responded because they thought they should.
The offender was shot and killed. Every AOS cop at the scene was blood tested for alcohol. Those that had been drinking were never above the drink driving limits but all received employment warnings for responding after drinking and breaking the department rules.
keith44spl
Member
Rastoff
US Veteran
There are some mistakes that require swift and severe action. In this case I think being fired is the correct move. Does he need to be in prison? No, I don't think so, but that will depend on the judge.
TomkinsSP
Member
My experience (from the 70s to the 00s) was that near every Precinct House there was a bar which did a substantial amount of buisness with Police Officers. You could always find an off duty officer or three there. Those officers were armed. They likely were not drinking club soda. Everyone knew about it. People were not being accidently (or otherwise) shot.
I conclude we had better training (at home, in the academy, on the job) than the new batch.
Did you read that part where I mentioned "control the area"? Besides, this is "dropping your gun while getting a Jamba Juice", not tactical ninja nonsense.
The Big D said:
The last refuge of the scoundrel: grr, you're a keyboard commando!
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