J-frame: Enough?

[haywood]

It's all a big "IF" if I'm attacked, if I seek cover, if I trained enough, if I have my normal 2 carry J-Frames. I've carried since 2004. So far what I carry has worked. I haven't needed it.

 

[murphydog]

Consider the following incident. Would you be able to better access, deploy, retain and get off multiple shots with something like a Glock 19 or a hammerless snub revolver? If in doubt, maybe try running a force-on-force scenario drill simulation of the event with both auto and revolver sim guns and see what happens.

YouTube

This was surveillance video of a group attack in a parking garage or near it. I don't think the publicly available story stated it was a group mugging, an assault or if was gang related. In any case, it doesn't appear there would have been time to draw any firearm, but better situational awareness on the part of the victims may have helped.

 

[Mister X]

[/LIST]0148310]In any case, it doesn't appear there would have been time to draw any firearm, but better situational awareness on the part of the victims may have helped.

You draw while engaged, but very few people who conceal carry have much understanding or training in ECQ skills. Situational awareness is a given, but no matter how tuned in an individual is to their environment, there is always the potential of having to reactively respond to an ambush.

 

[Damol]

I voted yes simply because I carry one most of the time.
Sitting at home I have a 442 in my pocket with a speed loader in my
other pocket.
When out and about I carry it along with 2-4 speed loaders and a larger handgun, revolver or auto.
I like a larger gun and carry them often, but not having this little Airweight on me just don't feel right.

 

[31FordA]

I think the J frame is a fine choice. When I'm working I rely on a 64-2 or a SP-101 with a 340 for a back up. Off the clock I rely on the 340 or my 12-2 snub.

 

[Kifaru]

I just read a post today over at Claude Werner's site, The Tactical Professor, that seems germane to the topic. The takeaway that stuck with me is the quote, "It's not the ammunition on your body that will save your life, it's the ammunition that you've fired in practice that will save you." There's some truth to that. If you can't hit where you're aiming, even if you have a Glock 34 with a 23-round magazine in the well and two 33 rounders on your belt, you will run out of time long before you run out of ammo. Without decent software, even the best hardware isn't very useful. Any tool will do if you will do | tacticalprofessor

 

[Ziggy2525]

My disclaimer. Not an expert. Never been in a gunfight. Hope I never have to be. Even though I hope it never happens, hope isn't much of a strategy, so I try to be prepared if it ever does.

I've done a couple force-on-force sessions at close distance. My take away from those sessions were when things are really close, say 6 feet or less, there are a couple things about a snub that are an advantage over larger semi-autos.

1. It was easier to knock a G26 out of my hand than the snub. The shorter barrel and full grip on the snub (compared to the longer slide/shorter grip on the G26) gave the BG actor less leverage and made it harder for the BG actor to knock the snub out of my hand.

2. The shorter barrel on the snub makes the draw stroke for the barrel to clear the holster, immediately rotate to the bad guy, and fire quicker than with either a G26 or a G19. It's only fractions of a second, but I keep seeing people post that in a real gunfight, when you're up close, fractions of a second count.

I think snub nose revolvers have a lot of pluses. That was what I found anyway. YMMV.

 

[SRG]

I have slipped a J Frame in my pocket before while running out for a quick trip to the store and back. Every time I did however, I didn't get a mile down the road without thinking that "this will be the day a need a gun and THIS is what I decided to bet my life on!" No thanks! The J Frames make great back-up guns but IMO leave a lot to be desired as a primary carry gun.

 

[fredj338]

It is probably location specific around the ocuntry, but for me, 5 shots from a pocket holster isn't getting it done in general. Yes you are probably fine for 99% of situations you find your self but then there will be the 1% & Murphy says that you are just as likely to end up in that 1%. So for me neither pocket carry or a 5-6 shot small gun is "enough". A Shield or G26 or P365 isn't much bigger or heavier but probably not pocket friendly.
Something else to consider for those that actually train & practice. It is a terrible idea to train & practice with one gun at say 3:30, OWB holster, then routinely carry a snub in your pocket. When the poop starts, close & fast, you are very likely to pause because it isn't a natural muscle response you have done 1000s times. I see this often in training sessions with shooters switching both guns & carry positions. SO if the pocketed snub is your choice, practice & train with it that way, a lot.

 

[M1A]

I always felt comfortable carrying my Baby Chief with a cartridge strip
Occasionally just drop it in my pocket.
Wife too!

 

[labworm]

I hope so, otherwise I am in big trouble.

 

[Mister X]

So, where are all these civilian self-defense incidents where it was necessary to fire a large number of rounds(or just more than the capacity of a revolver) to escape the encounter or stop the threat? Even if they constituted a mere 1%, that would actually be a fairly substantial number of cases that should be relatively easy to find, yet nobody has ever produced them.

Capacity and reload speed is the autoloaders primary supposed advantages, but I can find absolutely no evidence that they actually would be of any advantage. The hammerless snub is the superior weapon at contact distances and I know of no instructor whose focus is in that area or even anyone with a fair amount of intensive training in ECQ defensive shooting who would dispute it. You can go on YouTube and find numerous new stories involving civilians using firearms involving contact between them and the assailant(s)as well as countless incidents where the shots would have to be made at contact distances, if the defender had been armed, but I still have been unable to find more than a couple of high round count incidents.

I have no loyalty to revolvers and view them as tools. If I deem the autoloader the superior defense weapon for protecting myself and my family, I'd switch to carrying one. However, no one has ever been able to provide a substantial number of examples that demonstrate the need for capacity and easier reloads trumps the close-quarter advantages of the enclosed hammer revolver in the context of civilian self-defense. To me, it doesn't make any sense to trade away the inherent advantages(of the snub revolver) that will more likely be useful for traits(capacity and reloading) that won't likely be of any benefit.

 

[oink]

I hope so, otherwise I am in big trouble.

Well it's definitely pretty!

 

[fredj338]

And why do people get so defensive about their choices? Op asked for an opinion. IF we all live by the 99% rule, none of us would even carry a gun of any kind. IF the semiauto was NOT superior, it would have likely never been invented.

 

[TomkinsSP]

...The type of guns used had nothing to do with the outcome. (Of the Miami FBI shootout.) Other than the fact that if you know you're going into a gunfight, bring a rifle.

I EDC a M640 and a reload. It is a practicle comprimise between protection and ease of carry.

If I KNEW I was going to get into a gunfight, I would wear a kevlar lid, ceramic armor, carry a laser target designator and an AR for backup. (And have a good friend overhead in an Apache.)

 

[Mister X]

And why do people get so defensive about their choices? Op asked for an opinion. IF we all live by the 99% rule, none of us would even carry a gun of any kind. IF the semiauto was NOT superior, it would have likely never been invented.

Some people do indeed get defensive, but some folks like me want to discuss and debate the issue to determine the validity of their thinking and their choice. Just as not all opinions are equally valid, nor do I think all weapon choices are when it comes to personal defense. I like hearing alternative points of view to see if my perspective holds up to challenges. An individual should be able to articulate the reasons why they chose the weapon they carry and point to evidence and facts that support it.

In terms of military and police use, the auto is superior for the most part, but that's not what is being discussed here.

Some people only look for information that supports their choice when they should also be questioning it. Who knows, maybe I'll decide I'm wrong at some point and start carrying a Glock, but anytime I ask for evidence supporting a realistic need to carry a higher capacity weapon with quick reloads, nobody provides any and I have yet been unable to find anything definitive or substantial myself.

 

[Pef]

...

How many of you think that setup would be enough for realistic self defense, or should I get a bigger gun with more capacity or a different caliber?
...

Objection.

Asked and answered.

In many forums.

For many years.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Some people do indeed get defensive, but some folks like me want to discuss and debate the issue to determine the validity of their thinking and their choice. Just as not all opinions are equally valid, nor do I think all weapon choices are when it comes to personal defense. I like hearing alternative points of view to see if my perspective holds up to challenges. An individual should be able to articulate the reasons why they chose the weapon they carry and point to evidence and facts that support it.

In terms of military and police use, the auto is superior for the most part, but that's not what is being discussed here.

Some people only look for information that supports their choice when they should also be questioning it. Who knows, maybe I'll decide I'm wrong at some point and start carrying a Glock, but anytime I ask for evidence supporting a realistic need to carry a higher capacity weapon with quick reloads, nobody provides any and I have yet been unable to find anything definitive or substantial myself.

After trying different approaches, I've decided on a hybrid. Similar to a different thread from a while back - it works for me. It'll continue to evolve.

From when I get up until I go to bed, I have an LCP in my front pocket in a Mika pocket hoster. It's small. It can go anywhere it's legal, pretty much regardless of what I'm wearing. It's as normal as my wallet or watch or pocket knife.

When I go somewhere, I add a 640 cross draw IWB. The LCP becomes my stand-alone speedstrip. I like the redundancy of two small pistols over one larger one.

My home defense gun is a Glock 19. It's rare, but occasionally I'll substitute the Glock for the J. In the car, after midnight, can't help but drive through a really bad neighborhood - the G19 gets the nod.

I shoot all three regularly.

 

[max503]

Only one time I wished I had more. Me and the wife were leaving downtown st Louis late at night and we took a wrong turn and all of a sudden the street was crowded with people. Would have felt better with a hi cap 9 and a bag of mags.

 

[p8riot]

Took a little time to get used to the recoil, but this is my EDC

First year 342PD