3rd Model K-22 / Pre-Model 17

[BB57]

I walked in the house today and my Model 17-4 yelled "Daddy!"

I had dropped by the local gun shop yesterday about 10 minutes before closing and didn't see anything interesting. However, since I only gave it a quick look I stopped in today while I had more time.

The first thing I noticed in their used handgun section was a Pre-Model 17 in excellent condition. I asked if I'd missed it yesterday and he stated it had just been put out today.

I looked it over and found it locked up nicely, had a straight ejector rod, no end shake issues, a faint turn line, a bore that looked to be perfect, and I noted it had a superb trigger.

The 740XX serial dated it to 1949, all the numbers matched and it had the expected early tapered rib, 4 line address and .010" front sight width. The roll marks were sharp, the pins were round, it passed a sniff test, the stocks appeared to be correct and didn't show any significant wear.

I asked what their best price was and they decided they'd part with it for $600 plus tax, so $642 out the door. I told them I was 95% sold and thought about it a few minutes while I looked at everything else. I was not actually in the market for anything, but I decided I wasn't going to lose money at $600 if I needed to turn in back into money down the road - and I started filling out the paperwork.

When I got it home and removed the stocks, the stock inserts were correct for the period and the right panel was serial numbered to the revolver.

I also noted the blue was slightly darker under the stocks, which I suspect reflects the exposed finish showing its almost 70 years of age as well. The slightly lighter blue is also evident in comparison to my Model 17-4 below.

I'll get it out to the range, tomorrow or possibly Sunday and see how it shoots.

 

[daddio202]

Such a righteous gun you found and at pretty darned good price too. Congratulations and I am sure it's going to shoot as good as it looks. Your pictures are giving me "my fix" as I wait for my outdoorsman K22 from 1935 to be shipped. The wait is actually the part of revolver buying I enjoy. Almost as much as that first night of a thorough cleaning to make it look like new again. I enjoy looking at your "improved" version of my K22. Thank you and Enjoy shooting.

 

[Miles42]

excellent buy

 

[rct269]

Well, it took me awhile; but it finally dawned on me what you were actually referring to when you said "straight ejector rod"----having never heard of a bent one.

Then I had to work on "Daddy"----and "Pre-Model 17". Wouldn't it be Grandpa and Pre-Pre-Model 17----or maybe even Pre-Pre-Pre?

As an aside, has it ever been determined how many "Pre's" are deemed to be appropriate? Given that one has clearly found favor, why not two or three----or more?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Engine49guy]

Collecting K-22's is alot of fun because of its long production run and the many little production changes along the way,

Of course alot of this depends on how fine you set the microscope, In the beginning its like Pre war guns then Post war 5 screw, 4 screw, 3 screw,
Then you start to realize there are probably at least 10 different post war five screw K-22s alone between 1946 and 1955 with around 4 different style Magnas.

The hardest ones are usually the early OD with Gold bead FS, the pre war Masterpiece, the post war One Line LERK , the high polish narrow rib and the wide rib 5 screw that briefly appears around 1955 just prior to the 4 screw change.

Big fun hunting them down

 

[kennethg]

That is indeed a great find!

 

[Green Frog]

My K-22 in the 70 thousand range has been one of my favorite shooters since the day I won it at auction. I have often said it would be one of the last guns I would sell (I say that about several of my guns, but it's extra true about this one!!)

Froggie

 

[Art Doc]

Third Model K22? What are the first two? And don't say First Model and Second Model. Outdoorsman first?

 

[rct269]

Third Model K22? What are the first two? And don't say First Model and Second Model. Outdoorsman first?

Surely to goodness someone should have answered this by now!!

Yes, the first was the Outdoorsman.

The second was the K-22 Masterpiece----perhaps better known as the 22/40 (Think Outdoorsman with a short action and the "Micrometer" rear sight.)

The third is this gun-------with or without the "LERK"----with either address.

Fourth is the same gun, but with heavy barrel/wide rib.

And that's all the 5 screw .22's-------of the 6" persuasion.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[drgbike]

If you would like a modest profit, I have been looking for a 1949 [my birth year]. I have 47 2- 48sand 2-50s, as well as a few other dates. I have seen quite a few 48s must have been a busy year

 

[chiefbob81]

Rct269, you blow me away! I struggle to tell the different models apart, but you can see the variants within a model run. WOW

 

[rct269]

Rct269, you blow me away! I struggle to tell the different models apart, but you can see the variants within a model run. WOW

Thank you, Bob!-----------------or I'm sorry, Bob! Pick one. Sometimes, and this is one of those times, I don't know if I'm being complimented, damned, or simply ridiculed.

Given the topic here (K-22's), the variants within the model run are as common as dirt----perhaps not in numbers (See 2nd Model), but most certainly regarded as such by anyone with an interest in the model. Given little to no interest in the model, an encyclopedic knowledge is available in two pages of the current SCSW. Given an obsession, those folks see variants where none existed in the mind of the maker (See front sight bead variation in earlier/later Outdoorsman----and my all time favorite, the LERK's---a monument to the obsessive compulsive disorder arising from S&W's policy of using up NOS parts before moving on----no matter how much it costs (Assuming as I am in this case S&W's bottom line would have been enhanced by scrapping the LERK rods.). Then again, we're all a little bit nutty----just not nutty enough to suit the real wackos. In my case, K-22's don't even appear on my list of favorites---but I have seven of them---and a good reason for each----a pretty good reason anyway.

Like I said----nutty. 'Twas ever thus!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[steelslaver]

No mater what model or variant K22 are fine shooting guns. Some one asked me why I had so many 22 revolvers. Answered, I don't have enough.

The 22s, then the 32s, then the 45s, the rest are just filler IMHO

 

[chiefbob81]

My comment is pure admiration. I have acquired twenty some texts on S&W, study regularly, but seldom see some of these models. I can proudly say because of your posts and hondo44 (and others) I have learned much. Heck, I even know what a LERK is. Please keep posting!

 

[Engine49guy]

Ralph Im probably as nutty as they come when K-22s are involved, Likely has something to do with my OCD.

While S&W considers all pre war K-22 ODs the "First Model" besides the gold bead first year ODs have a different rear site leaf than later ones
(Notice no elevation set screw),

IMO this is a production change although that site will likely fit on the later ODs,

BTW before the end of its production the OD also changes from a small left side TM to a large right side TM
(This carried over to the K-22/40 as all of them have the large right side TM).

It is interesting that while some changes improved the design such as the new Micrometer rear site and short action introduced in the K-22/40 "Pre War Masterpiece" others reduced production steps such as eliminating the LERK which also allowed eliminating the matching barrel cut .

Each small change is an interesting step in its evolution.

Best regards
Brad

 

[Art Doc]

"Yes, the first was the Outdoorsman.

The second was the K-22 Masterpiece----perhaps better known as the 22/40 (Think Outdoorsman with a short action and the "Micrometer" rear sight.)

The third is this gun-------with or without the "LERK"----with either address.

Fourth is the same gun, but with heavy barrel/wide rib."

Way too complicated for me. This is why I could never be a serious collector.

 

[paplinker]

Here is a picture of two 1940 S&W catalogs side by side.

On the first catalog on the left they still show a picture of the first model Outdoorsman and call it a Target K22.

On the second catalog on the right they show a picture of and advertise the New K22 Masterpiece.
Seems it was a pretty short time frame they even educated their consumers about K22s back then.

Took me a couple years to remember a 22/40 is not an Outdoorsman

 

[Engine49guy]

Rich its been a while since I focused on the pre war K-22 but here is what I recall,

Although the K-22 was introduced as the "K-22 Outdoorsmans revolver" linking it in name to the larger N frame .38-44 Outdoorsman in fact it is actually a .22lr version of the pre war ".38 M&P Target revolver" ,
Perhaps some marketing guy thought the OD name would sell better than ".22 M&P Target".

The K-22 OD and pre war K-22 Masterpiece were marketed as different models for sales ID purposes but they do have the same DNA in that IIRC they use the same frame, barrel, cylinder and stocks,
The parts that are different between the K-22 OD and the K-22/40 " Masterpiece" are the new (taller) Micrometer click rear site with corresponding taller front site blade and the new short cocking action hammer, I have never compared internals to see if there is a difference or if those will interchange but IIRC the other parts will.

After WWII besides the change to satin blue finish Masterpiece series revolvers appear with a barrel rib (previously only found on the pre war Reg Mag ) the new micrometer rear site leaf is also wider and grooved to match the barrel rib grooves, the new transfer safety bar system is also employed with new internals. also while some early post war M&P's can be found with the older style pre war "Magna" stocks all early K-22s shipped with the new post war style diamond Magna stocks.