i was gifted some neat .38 spec military ammo

[Lee Barner]

I ran into the man who owns the bank where my wife works at the LGS today. he had been given several guns and medium size cooler full of stuff. in it were these two boxes of military contract 158 gr FMJ. head stamp is WCC 60. during my time in the AF from 69-90 all I ever saw and was issued was 130 gr FMJ which was very weak in my humble opinion. note the warning on the side of the box. anyone out there that is more familiar with military ammo please chime in. lee

 

[D Brown]

I think the warning is just an admission that most anything is better than Ball ammunition for law enforcement or "other than" military use.

Nice find though!

 

[Watchdog]

Some people have all the luck! Wonder if you should think twice before shooting those in an Airweight?

Seriously.

 

[Grayfox]

Barner, you never cease to amaze me. You have a knack for just falling into some really neat stuff.

 

[Lee Barner]

Lee, I just live right I guess. LOL

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Lee:

That 130 grain stuff you saw was a version of the M41 Ball which was adopted by Air Force around 1956. It was originally intended for use in the lightweight Aircrewman revolvers, hence the anemic performance, but continued on to be used in slightly improved versions by the Air Force up into the 1980s.

Around 1960, the Air Force looked into getting some .38 Special ammunition with a little more power. The boxes you show are the result of that experiment. Although not stated on the boxes, that ammo was designated XM142. It was loaded with 158 grain full metal jacket projectiles and featured an improved muzzle velocity of 925 FPS. Both Remington and Western produced this ammo. All of the examples I have seen have had 1960 dated headstamps. The project was eventually cancelled and the XM142 was not adopted.

However, the USAF continued to search for better performance in .38 Special ammuntion. It finally adopted the PGU-12/B ammunition, but that's a story for another day.

Hope that helps!

 

[dmn57]

Interesting stuff. I'm a big .38 fan and I do enjoy the historical aspects of the cartridge. I've got a few early '60's M and/or P pieces that may have consumed ammo of this nature at one time or another.

 

[Gripgrabber]

Hello, on that note I ended up with a box of military 38 special tracers! I think I'll dig them out and do some research.
Semper paratus

 

[ddixie884]

That 158gr fmc mil-spec ammo is probably pretty scarce. I have never seen even a picture, until now. It may be a collectors item.......

 

[4barrel]

Mine are from 1962.

 

[kthom]

Good score, Lee! I have a box or two of those as well as a couple or so boxes of the 130 grain that the Air Force used. Had a source for them while living near Holloman AFB many years ago. I'm sure that they came from the stash they had there although to me from anyone in the Air Force. Kinda figured that the ammo departure from it's source may not have been authorized! Also have a few rounds of the stuff with the red tips (tracers). They were kind of fun to shoot in the dark!

 

[4barrel]

Good score, Lee! I have a box or two of those as well as a couple or so boxes of the 130 grain that the Air Force used. Had a source for them while living near Holloman AFB many years ago. I'm sure that they came from the stash they had there although to me from anyone in the Air Force. Kinda figured that the ammo departure from it's source may not have been authorized! Also have a few rounds of the stuff with the red tips (tracers). They were kind of fun to shoot in the dark!

I have a few tracers. Are they easy to see in 38 special?

 

[kwill1911]

Neat stuff, Lee! The M41 ammo was packaged in lots of different boxes but that's the first time I've seen any exactly like yours.

 

[max503]

choot it!!!

 

[RMFnLA]

Way back when I was gifted about a half box of military .38 Special tracers.

I'd never seen that before and probably should have saved some, but they were a blast to shoot, especially at night.

 

[kthom]

4barrel,
Yes they are easy to see, and especially if it's really dark. I'm talking about at night without any ambient light anywhere close and without a full moon. That's the best conditions to see them well. It also makes a difference if you are the shooter and if you are shooting at a target or a sandbank for a backstop. Shooting after dark requires some serious preparation since those bullets travel much farther than you can see! But if you are not the shooter and are standing somewhat to the side (not out beyond the line of fire of the shooter, you will have an angle view of the bullet flight and can see the full tracer as it flies through the air. It can be pretty impressive. However, having seen many, many rounds of 40MM shells with tracers fired, the small .38 Special is a tiny light in comparison. You can see the big rounds tracers in daylight, but you are lucky to see the .38 Special then, unless there is a dark background and you are placed where you get the angle view.

I have fired the .38 Special tracers from the training firing line where we trained with the 40MM guns during the daylight as well as during hours of darkness. There was no worry at all about targets down range there. And there was room to stand a good ways down the firing line from the shooter so you got a good view of the tracer's flight path. In that case, the tracer would burn itself out well before the bullet remaining struck anything. The tracer would disappear in the air in mid flight. The 40's fired one tracer in every five rounds. The other four rounds contained High Explosive charges in the projectile. You couldn't see them in the air but knew they were following the tracers. When those HE rounds hit anything, or when their timing fuses set of the HE charge, you could definitely see them explode, in the air or on the target. Never fired a .38 Special tracer round at a solid target that was close enough to see what happened if the tracer was still alive. Pretty sure I wouldn't do so today either!!

I never did hear what the purpose for those military .38 Specials were originally intended to do. Perhaps someone here more informed than I can tell us!

 

[Valmet]

I was unfamiliar with the history of these particular loads, thanks for posting this OP and thanks to other posters who filled in the blanks.

 

[kwill1911]

This is post WWII stuff. It was for downed aviators (USN and USMC) to use as signal cartridges.

 

[kthom]

Thanks Kevin,
That makes good sense to me! Certainly a downed pilot could likely get the attention of those flying trying to locate him. They would have been able to see those tracers from a different angle to make them more easily visible to them, especially during the hours of little or no daylight.

 

[theammoboxguy]

The .38 SPL tracer was indeed developed at the Navy's request for signaling purposes. Remington produced test lots of 120gr and 158gr tracer rounds in mid-1943, but later mass production was of the 158gr version due to better performance. Production of the tracer rounds was terminated in mid-1945 after approx. 5M rounds had been made.

I have examples of both loadings in my collection, and they display well with my 1942 Navy Victory revolver. Hard ammo to find now, but worth the effort.