Going back to stock springs in my 642...

[DaveB57]

Just went through another CCW class, this time for the Idaho "enhanced" which allows me to get rid of my non-enhanced Idaho & Utah permits...Well it made me think some more about modified triggers in carry guns & the liability target if I ever needed to defend myself or others...


9 years ago I installed a Wilson Combat Custom-Tune #321 J-frame spring kit (used the heaviest option of 15# rebound trigger spring as well as it's 8# Hammer Spring)...I never actually measured the original springs but it was a lot heavier/grittier...

So My curiosity gets me on Amazon & I ordered the Lyman Electronic Digital Trigger Pull Gauge...Once I get the technique down to eliminate all the erratic hang up & over-pulls (as high as 11#), my last 10 measured pulls averaged 4# 1.3 oz. & I've never had a light strike? Makes little sense to me but I'm going to reinstall the original springs back in...and measure again.

I also tested the accuracy of the gauge, placed a 7# barbell inside a 1 gallon ziploc bag & test hung...which measured 7# 3.3oz which seems close enough. I also figure technique errors in measurement would only result in high (?) readings...don't know how a bad angle could result in a low reading.


Any thoughts?

When I re-install the original springs I'll post up the results...This 642 no lock has MAYBE 40 hurtful rounds through it...but a thousand dry fire practice w/ snap caps using laser for movement watching.

 

[hardknocks]

Hmmmm

What legal problems would someone run up against if they carry a Les Baer with a factory
3.5 lb trigger.
Compared to the Baer, wilson, nighthawk etc.
Your trigger could be a called a safety trigger with a long pull much safer than some factory setups.
And I haven't read where this is created problems outside internet regurgitation.
But it's your decision to make and I respect peopled right to decide.
Suprised you don't get light strikes.
Regards
Mike

 

[Bobbysixkiller]

What is enhanced vs non enhanced cc permit? Only curious. I'll add that I put lighter springs in my 640 and didn't like the way it felt so I put them back.

 

[DaveB57]

What legal problems would someone run up against if they carry a Les Baer with a factory
3.5 lb trigger.
Compared to the Baer, wilson, nighthawk etc.
Your trigger could be a called a safety trigger with a long pull much safer than some factory setups.
And I haven't read where this is created problems outside internet regurgitation.
But it's your decision to make and I respect peopled right to decide.
Suprised you don't get light strikes.
Regards
Mike

k

Exactly my thoughts...Long DAO. But it's easy enough to switch back to measure and "feel" the stock springs...This 642 has been carried a lot and fired a little, but that's going to change. I'm switching from Buffalo Bore to Gold Dots so I'll be willing to work with it more...more rapid fire close range testing with the Gold Dots. The range I've been frequenting won't let me shoot the lead BB. I'll save that ammo for my 66.

I love the feel of the trigger pull right now, so I'll keep shooting and comparing and continue to carry my 3913 in the winter.

 

[Wishbone]

I will only add that if shooting only 40 rounds hurts that much then maybe you should should try 148 grain wadcutters. This will make it much more pleasant.

 

[DaveB57]

What is enhanced vs non enhanced cc permit? Only curious. I'll add that I put lighter springs in my 640 and didn't like the way it felt so I put them back.

Idaho introduced the enhanced permit I think in '13 because a few other states were no longer honoring Idaho's due to not requiring range qualification. So the enhanced version now requires 98 rounds + 8 hours (mostly law) and now accepted in 40 states. That being said, Idaho does allow permitless carry for residents (open or concealed).

 

[Muss Muggins]

Any thoughts?

It's your world. Overthink it any way you want . . .

 

[L-2]

I'm guessing the OP's trigger gauge was set on kilograms with the pulls thought to be measured in "4#" range.

My variations with my 642 can run from 8 to 11 pounds, averaging ~10 pounds. Again, just my guess as I'm not there with the OP's gun and trigger pull gauge.

 

[coleslaw]

I'm guessing the OP's trigger gauge was set on kilograms with the pulls thought to be measured in "4#" range.

My variations with my 642 can run from 8 to 11 pounds, averaging ~10 pounds. Again, just my guess as I'm not there with the OP's gun and trigger pull gauge.

Something is not right. I have a no dash 60, everything polished, WC springs and it's definitely more than 4#. My inexpensive gauge tops out around 9 and it hasn't started to lift the hammer yet. But it does feel much smoother than OE. Just finished it so haven't had it out.

 

[photoman]

A four pound trigger pull that reliably ignites ammo in a Centennial? Something doesn't sound right. I don't think even Randy Lee at Apex could make that happen and he's the master of light action revolvers.

 

[DaveB57]

That's why I posted this. I'll figure it out ...going shooting this afternoon.

 

[DaveB57]

Here's 10 pull avg's of these 3 guns (The 66 also has a Wilson Combat spring kit):




...still no light strikes.

 

[cmj8591]

If it's a good shoot, you'll be alive to defend yourself. If it's a bad shoot, it won't matter if the gun was dipped in holy water and blessed by the Pope. You'll be screwed. Don't overthink it.

 

[DaveB57]

I'm going to exchange this Lyman trigger pull gauge...I can't trust it until I can compare with another one....I'll try again. Took the 642 and 3913 to the range last Sunday and had zero light strikes. Thanks.

 

[gnystrom]

I want a consistent smooth trigger in my revolvers and all of my S&W snubbies have lightly polished rebound slides with a #14 Wolff spring and stock S&W hammer springs.

I solved all my trigger re-work needs when I bought a Kimber K6s

 

[mike campbell]

I was an industrial R&D scientist ... kind of geeky is my point, but ...

I measure trigger pulls with a deadweight. Consists of a coffee can and a string. I add bullets for weight. I thread the string/wire through the triggerguard and use the gun with the muzzle pointing straight up to lift the can. I add/subtract bullets until the trigger just breaks. I adjust the angle of the pull from in-line with the bore to various others until I find the geometry that registers the minimum weight required ... that becomes my "technique" for that particular gun. Then I weigh the whole can on a postal scale. I can measure pulls repeatedly to within +/- one ounce.

I'm skeptical (to the tune of a $100 bet) that any DA revolver is 100% reliable at 6 lbs.

Some will say it's not valid to measure a DA pull without actually pulling through in a DA motion. I say hogwash.

If I jump on and off my bathroom scale quickly I might see a max weight of 115 lbs flash by. If I step on it and don't move until it stabilizes, it will read more in the neighborhood of 220. Try something similar before buying another pull scale.

 

[ABPOS]

I have a hard time believing it's 4 pounds. Does it feel that light?

I use a fish scale to measure mine. hehehehe. But it works for me. I think it gets me close. I have to watch it closely to see where it's at when it pulls through. But I get the idea.

I have stock springs in both of my guns. Dry firing and putting a little but if CLP in the trigger helped smooth mine out and lighten it up about 1 pound from when I got it. It's a heck of a lot better now. Most of that is shooting and dry firing. It will lighten up the more you use it. It's sort of irritating because mine is heavier than other peoples I've fondled. So I think I got one on the heavier side. However, I did fondle one J frame that was heavier than mine. It was a 637.

 

[DaveB57]

I was an industrial R&D scientist ... kind of geeky is my point, but ...

I measure trigger pulls with a deadweight. Consists of a coffee can and a string. I add bullets for weight. I thread the string/wire through the triggerguard and use the gun with the muzzle pointing straight up to lift the can. I add/subtract bullets until the trigger just breaks. I adjust the angle of the pull from in-line with the bore to various others until I find the geometry that registers the minimum weight required ... that becomes my "technique" for that particular gun. Then I weigh the whole can on a postal scale. I can measure pulls repeatedly to within +/- one ounce.

I'm skeptical (to the tune of a $100 bet) that any DA revolver is 100% reliable at 6 lbs.

Some will say it's not valid to measure a DA pull without actually pulling through in a DA motion. I say hogwash.

If I jump on and off my bathroom scale quickly I might see a max weight of 115 lbs flash by. If I step on it and don't move until it stabilizes, it will read more in the neighborhood of 220. Try something similar before buying another pull scale.

Stopped by the house for lunch & tried your hanging weight trick...You were right, I was "jumping on the bathroom scale". Never so happy to see a 10#+/- trigger pull...and I have more reduced power springs (14# & 13#) to play with...Call it operator error, it's nice to compare manually to the digital gauge...now I know how to sneak up on the trigger break...The Lyman shows 9lb 10.2oz. or thereabouts. Lesson learned...just not experienced enough to know what a 10# or 5# trigger pull feels like...because it really feels smooth.

Last Edit: A couple things I should add which would have helped me with the Lyman trigger Gauge...What works for an accurate measurement is to ever so slightly build pressure, looking at the digital readout, just keeping the numbers increasing...almost like I didn't want the trigger to "break"...going this slow prevented any over pull and eliminated those false low readings (previously I was able to somehow get it cycling which registered lower, me thinking lower was the correct weight). I get it now, hopefully this helps someone else.

Here's what I finally measured:

642-1: DAO= 9lb 10.3oz avg (this has the Wilson-Combat #321 for J frame w/ 8# & 15# springs)...

66-2: DA = 8lb 12.0oz avg (this has the Wilson-Combat #178 spring kit for k frame)
SA = 2lb 5.0oz avg

3913: DA = 11lb 10.4oz avg (all original trigger springs)
SA = 6lb 1.4oz avg

 

[Rock185]

That's more like it. I have a 640, 642 and 940, and have a Lyman gauge, and was wondering about that ~4# DA trigger myself.

 

[Erratic101]

Yup, my experience with the Lyman gauge is to have a slow steady pull and to keep the roller on the middle of the trigger. Riding the roller low results in low skewed readings. I also will put the gun in a vise to remove the variable of my other hand.