Help needed to identify this revolver please

[Lady Smith]

Hi guys,

I found this revolver for sale today and I need help to identify it please since it seems the seller doesn't really know which model it is...

It's a 6" barrel, *38 S&W SPECIAL CTG* mark on the left side of the barrel, big S&W logo on the right side of the frame, *SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PAT'D MAR.27.94 MAY.(I can't see).95. AUG.(I can't see)96. DEC.22.96. OCT.08.01 DEC.17.01. FEB.6.06. SEPT.14.09* on the top of the barrel.

I was initially thinking about to buy a Model 36 2" square butt with original matching box for 395$, but as we are usually shooting at 27 yards here in France, I think this one could be a better choice.

The blue finish is not original, the seller says it's in very good condition and ask 395$. Unfortunately he hasn't the original grips.

Thanks for help

 

[29aholic]

It is a 1905 Target Pre-War K Frame. I am not sure of the series, but I paid $500.00 for one in a lot lesser condition. BUY IT!!!

 

[Lady Smith]

Thanks, I was also thinking about a 1905, but the front sight is different and the ".38 special ctg" mark is not on the right side.
Maybe there are many 1905 "models"

 

[murphydog]

The official name is .38 Military & Police Target. The barrel stamp is typical for an earlier model and the front sight blade has been changed.

Does it have a 6 or 6.5" barrel, and can you share the serial number?

 

[Lady Smith]

The seller says it has a 6" barrel, I don't know the serial number, I added it to the cart

 

[glowe]

With the 1909 being the last patent date, the gun is a Model 1905, 38 Hand Ejector, 3rd Change made from 1909 to 1915. Your revolver would have shipped towards the end of this production period. The serial number range was 146,900 to 241,703.

Someone has to say it - that rubber bumper stock is really ugly!!!!!!!! Price is high for a refinished M&P in the US, but not sure what is appropriate in France.

 

[Lady Smith]

With the 1909 being the last patent date, the gun is a Model 1905, 38 Hand Ejector, 3rd Change made from 1909 to 1915. Your revolver would have shipped towards the end of this production period. The serial number range was 146,900 to 241,703.

Someone has to say it - that rubber bumper stock is really ugly!!!!!!!! Price is high for a refinished M&P in the US, but not sure what is appropriate in France.

Thank you !

To be honest it's the first time I see one in France, S&W hand ejector are very expensive there, price start at 1,000$ more or less and they are very very scarce .

 

[DWalt]

Can you provide the serial number (on the butt and rear face of the cylinder)? That will allow a much closer dating. The grips are Pachmayrs, definitely not original.

 

[Bobbysixkiller]

I’d buy it. Grips can be changed. I bet it’s a shooter for sure

 

[29aholic]

It is refinished but not a terrible job. They are wonderful shooters.

 

[DWalt]

This is a similar M1905 target model from probably around the same time period, showing the correct grips.

 

[Green Frog]

If you are purchasing it as a shooter, I would be remiss to not say this... the pre-War adjustable sight on S&Ws was not as easily adjusted as the improved ones that showed up on only a few guns (mostly 22s) right before WW II then were added to all of the Target Models after the war. When I choose between my pre-War Heavy Frame Target 22 and my post-War K-22 for some casual shooting, the sights are one reason I generally go with the latter rather than the former, but to be fair, once you get your adjustment made and locked in, the sight picture is the same.

Regards,
la Grenouille

 

[Hondo44]

It's a nice version with target sights which is already scarce even in the USA.

The original front sight blade would be pinned in place and a target variety.
It may have been filed down and modified to the half round or changed to the standard sight on a fixed sight gun.

That's a decent buy here and no doubt even more so in France.

 

[Lady Smith]

Thank you guys, I buy it, I will share the serial number and will search for original grips.

 

[glowe]

I assume that the presence of target sights indicate that the gun is a square butt, but both square and round were available on this model. I have seen both butt-frame types with target sights in these early M&Ps. Won't know until someone takes off the rubber grips. Almost certain that the stocks appropriate for this model will be the gold medallion checkered walnut diamond stocks. Good luck and hope you get the S&W to add to your collection.

 

[rct269]

If I recall correctly, the sight adjustment procedure on your new revolver goes like this: One full turn of either elevation or windage adjusting screw will change point of impact one inch for each ten yards of range.

The sights on target revolvers of this vintage have a tendency to "shoot loose"---elevation, not windage (which lock up quite nicely), so once you've set your elevation to your liking, pay attention to the position of the screw slot----and stay ahead of any movement which may prove embarrassing---or costly if you've been known to wager on scores.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

The problem with the one I have, as shown in the picture above (#11) is that the elevation screw appears to be frozen. I have tried the usual remedies without success, and I sure don't want to take any chances with shearing that elevation screw off. Fortunately. it's pretty close to being correct at 25 yards with wadcutter loads, so I have chosen to leave it alone.

 

[Lady Smith]

Well, I tried to enlarge the photo showing the cylinder opens and I can see 6 digits starting by 22xxxx .
So definitely a 1905 target 3rd change.
Well done guys, thanks.

 

[Texas Star]

Madame (Mlle.?)-

Be aware that this gun was made several years before the company began heat treating cylinders for extra strength. (In late 1919) Do not fire modern loads marked Plus P in this gun.

It was made about the time of World War I and is over 100 years old! It appeals to collectors more than to modern shooters.

But it it is still a better gun for shooting targets at 27 yards (25 meters?) than the snub nosed M-36 you mentioned. That one is a sort of niche gun, intended for concealed carry and close range defense. It is not meant for target shooting at longer ranges. A really good shooter can get better results, but the M-36 is mostly sold to people expecting to shoot a criminal at from about 2 meters to maybe ten meters. Actually, it may be used in a hand to hand fight, with the muzzle contacting an enemy!

What you should have bought, had one been available, is the K -38 Masterpiece/Model 14, a more modern gun meant especially for target shooting, or a .357 Magnum in any of several models, fitted with modern adjustable sights. Those can also fire the .38 Special cartridge as a lighter load, and they make excellent target guns, as well as being superior for defense, against evil men or against dangerous animals.

Some members here are mainly collectors. They disparage rubber grips/handle plates. (Stocks) The Pachmayr Gripper is intended to fit the hand better and to control recoil better. It is in fact a better handle for shooting! If it fits your hand well, no need for new grips. I have that same model of grip on my Ruger GP-100, and other Pachmayr grips on my Smith & Wessons. They especially help to retain a firm grasp on the gun if it's raining or if one's hand is sweaty from nerves when going in harm's way, where you think someone is waiting in the shadows to kill you. This is the voice of experience. I can assure you, I prefer a good rubber or wooden grip to a slick one of pearl or ivory when the gun may need to be used in earnest, not for casual target shooting.

However, remove the grip and inspect under it for rust, as moisture can become trapped there and rust the gun. Pull the grips off (not just rubber ones) and oil under them several times a year so the gun's frame doesn't rust.

I think you will find that old gun to be very accurate. Just use standard .38 Special ammunition or the flat nosed wadcutter loads, meant for target shooting. Avoid modern high velocity ammunition in a gun of that age.

You clearly read and write well in English. If you can buy it in France or on the Net, get a book called, "The Handgun", by the late British author Geoffrey Boothroyd. It covers pistols from earliest times until about 1970, when the book was published. I can think of no other book so complete in dealing with its subject, and it will give you a really good understanding of firearms. You will see guns like yours and many other Smith & Wesson and other handguns. The book usually isn't very expensive and is well worth some effort to acquire. But it is a big, thick, well made book that is fairly heavy. Don't drop it on your bare toe, ha, ha!

It's always good to welcome a new French member. One of my favorite members is a French herpetologist who lives near Paris. I enjoy discussing snakes with him in The Lounge forum. Please join us there to discuss almost any subject, not just guns.

 

[Lady Smith]

Howdy Texas Star.

I love antique and old firearms even if I have some modern ones.
I never shot .38+P ammo (too expensive there) and I’m usually shooting wadcutters. Yes 27 yards = 25 meters.
The reason why I would like to purchase original grips is because I like when a « collectible » gun is close to be original. It will be very difficult to find exactly the original grips for this model but I already found on ebay a copy of nice pre-war checkered wooden S&W grips which will be a good fit for it, until I will be able to find original ones.
All my revolvers for shooting have a wooden stock and it’s not an issue for me (except when I’m shooting .357magnum to be honest ).

As far as my English language goes, well I have a good « Texan teacher » here who helps me to improve myself as I enjoy discussing with him.
I will take a look if I can find this book yer talking about.

Thank you