Factors in Surviving Gunfights

I like to go fishing and camping by myself away from the crowds. My main strategy for avoiding trouble is to never drink any alcohol while I'm out alone. Not even in camp.
While not everyone who drinks alcohol is stupid and dangerous, every stupid and dangerous person drinks alcohol.
If there's no booze around the stupid and dangerous people leave.
Just my opinion.
 
. . . every stupid and dangerous person drinks alcohol.
If there's no booze around the stupid and dangerous people leave. . .

I can unequivocally declare the above statements incorrect. As a fact of the matter, I can further state that the most dangerous people I have ever encountered neither drank alcohol nor used illegal substances . . .
 
I can unequivocally declare the above statements incorrect. As a fact of the matter, I can further state that the most dangerous people I have ever encountered neither drank alcohol nor used illegal substances . . .

Well lets just say booze or dope doesn't make anyone better, pretty much fact.
 
As someone who has "been there" your points are spot on. I came up shooting b/c that's all I had time to do, and my issued .38 served me well. I'm not sure how much skill or luck was involved, but it's not something I'm anxious to experience again.
 
I believe it was Bill Jordan that stated in a gunfight you need to'' take your time in a hurry".

Didn't Wyatt Earp have a similar statement - wait - I will look that up.

The most important lesson I learned from those proficient gunfighters was the winner of a gunplay usually was the man who took his time.

Wyatt Earp Gun

(c) American Shooting Journal


I do think there is another Wyatt Earp quote around that is similar but that will do.

As a side note, there was a discussion the other day that began with a story of a woman under threat in her home and she fired five times at her attacker and there were five holes in the walls. Without ammunition she was easy prey to be killed. But my point comes from the days when I was active in cowboy action shooting. We used to say that there is no target too big or too close that you cannot miss it. So if you simply have to shoot, well, take your time.....quickly.
 
Here are quotes from Wyatt Earp, plus analysis.

John


Wyatt…
"I was a fair hand with pistol, rifle, or shotgun, but I learned more about gunfighting from Tom Speer's cronies during the summer of 1871 than I had dreamed was in the book. Those old-timers took their gunplay seriously, which was natural under the conditions in which they lived. Shooting, to them, was considerably more than aiming at a mark and pulling a trigger. Models of weapons, methods of wearing them, means of getting them into action and operating them, all to the one end of combining high speed with absolute accuracy, contributed to the frontiersman's shooting skill. The sought-after degree of proficiency was that which could turn to most effective account the split-second between life and death. Hours upon hours of practice and wide experience in actualities supported their arguments over style."

Lesson 1
Marshal Earp is being crystal-clear here: the right gun, the right holster, the right way to carry it on your body, getting out of the holster and either into the low-ready position or right on target, knowledge of your gun's mechanical systems (and knowing how and why to correct problems when the machinery fails), and how to use it safely, quickly, effectively, and accurately. Lots of quality-time practice, at indoor and outdoor ranges, in all lighting and weather conditions.

Wyatt…
"The most important lesson I learned from those proficient gunfighters was the winner of a gunplay usually was the man who took his time. The second was that, if I hoped to live long on the frontier, I would shun flashy trick-shooting — grandstand play — as I would poison. When I say that I learned to take my time in a gunfight, I do not wish to be misunderstood, for the time to be taken was only that split fraction of a second that means the difference between deadly accuracy with a sixgun and a miss. It is hard to make this clear to a man who has never been in a gunfight. Perhaps I can best describe such time taking as going into action with the greatest speed of which a man's muscles are capable, but mentally unflustered by an urge to hurry or the need for complicated nervous and muscular actions which trick-shooting involves. Mentally deliberate, but muscularly faster than thought, is what I mean."

Lesson 2
He's saying it true here: fast and accurate, using your trained and developed powers of concentration, which comes through regular practice, to create the required muscle memory.

Wyatt…
"From personal experience and numerous six-gun battles which I witnessed, I can only support the opinion advanced by the men who gave me my most valuable instruction in fast and accurate shooting, which was that the gun-fanner and hip-shooter stood small chance to live against a man who, as old Jack Gallagher always put it, took his time and pulled the trigger once."

Lesson 3
In our modern context, he's not talking about the number of rounds you can put on the paper or human target, but the accuracy of those rounds. Not just "spraying and praying" and hoping one lands where you wanted it, but a practiced, measured shot each time. Sight picture, straight pull of the trigger to the fire, move to the trigger reset quickly, adjust the sight picture off the recoil, and prepare to do it again.

Wyatt…
"In the days of which I am talking, among men whom I have in mind, when a man went after his guns, he did so with a single, serious purpose. There was no such thing as a bluff; when a gunfighter reached for his forty-five, every faculty he owned was keyed to shooting as speedily and as accurately as possible, to making his first shot the last of the fight. He just had to think of his gun solely as something with which to kill another before he himself could be killed. The possibility of intimidating an antagonist was remote, although the 'drop' was thoroughly respected, and few men in the West would draw against it. I have seen men so fast and so sure of themselves that they did go after their guns while men who intended to kill them had them covered, and what is more win out in the play. They were rare. It is safe to say, for all general purposes, that anything in gunfighting that smacked of show-off or bluff was left to braggarts who were ignorant or careless of their lives."

Lesson 4
Action is faster than reaction. Even if the bad guy facing you is armed, you can still draw and fire at him, as his (tiny or alcohol or drug-addled) brain is trying to figure out what you're doing, why you're not giving up or complying, and why he suddenly sees muzzle flashes and bullets headed his way.

Wyatt…
"Practiced gun-wielders had too much respect for their weapons to take unnecessary chances with them; it was only with tyros and would-bes that you heard of accidental discharges or didn't-know-it-was-loaded injuries in the country where carrying a Colt's was a man's prerogative."

Lesson 5
We learn from our Masters. Be thoughtful about your weapon, be proficient with it, practice with it often, and it will serve you.
 
Number 1 - The willingness to shoot !!

In a class it was asked would you shoot someone in the back ..
and about 40 percent of the class said No ..
a couple of the women and several men .. Towards the end of the class
we were asked if you saw someone killing multiple people would you
shoot the perp in the back and it was 100% Yes ..

Different situations and are you ready for all of them that
are possible ??

Being prepared to shoot even someone in the back needs to be reconciled
with ones self when arming yourself before a
possible situation might arise ..
 
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I don't agree with your list. Most of what is needed are mental and ability to process information quickly. People have different mental and visual processing speeds and respond to stress in very different ways. Most people are better suited to fleeing danger. Bluntly a gun is a tool you don't want to use. And most people cant process stimuli under stress. That is why flight over fight is first option.
 
I can unequivocally declare the above statements incorrect. As a fact of the matter, I can further state that the most dangerous people I have ever encountered neither drank alcohol nor used illegal substances . . .

I was about to say the same.... People do stupid things under the influence but it's the ones that will kill/rob/rape you stone cold sober are the ones I worry about...

When I was with Probation/Parole 99% of my charges had drug or alcohol problems that led to their doing the crime... But it was that 1% that did their crimes sober and didn't have a substance abuse problem that were and continued to be the danger...

Bob
 
Thanks for the great advice. This is the kinda stuff anti-gun folks need to know about us. We're not out looking for a fight. We simply want to protect ourselves and our loved ones if need be.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
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I don't agree with your list. Most of what is needed are mental and ability to process information quickly. People have different mental and visual processing speeds and respond to stress in very different ways. Most people are better suited to fleeing danger. Bluntly a gun is a tool you don't want to use. And most people cant process stimuli under stress. That is why flight over fight is first option.

I don't think your points and the OP's points are mutually exclusive.
 
I do not disagree with the OP, but I would add that the words, "situational awareness" are key to seeing what is about to happen and then making decisions on how to handle it.

Also, point #2 should include, "movement" as the top priority. Movement (Getting off the X) reduces the chances of the adversary landing a hit whether you shoot or not. Getting to cover is moving. Running away is moving. Moving tactically to gain an advantage in shooting, including diagonally toward one side of the shooter, is moving. When you have to press the mental "Go" button, moving is the first priority. Luckily it is often instinctive, but trained movement will usually be more effective than simple reactive movement.

Practicing on a square range does little for this critical component of prevailing in a gunfight. Shooting accurately while moving is a level of training few people practice.

Another critical component is to STAY IN THE FIGHT. Just because you are injured does not mean you will not prevail. An injury, even being shot, does not mean you are going to die. For the seconds-long duration of most gun encounters, you can continue to land effective persuasion against an aggressor. Win, at all costs, but with good mindset, training and equipment.

Finally, I have understood there were four "S's":

Stupid places
Stupid times (2 AM)
Stupid people
Stupid actions

Eliminate just one of these components and you decrease your chance of getting involved with problems (which is why "time" is important). Two of these = further reduction. Eliminate all four and if something does happen to you, you have been chosen to react appropriately. It's just your time.

This brings up a very good point. Just how do you train? Does practicing at a conventional range hinder the shooter more that they help? Put another way, are the range 'safety' rules that we see on most ranges (no drawing and shooting from the holster, stay still, one shot every five seconds, etc.) hurting or helping the developing defensive shooter?

I am very fortunate in that I have my own range where I set the rules, and my range, cut out of the slope of a creek bed has a high berm on three sides. This arrangement allows me to set up targets so that I can shoot in three different directions. I also utilize movement, and while I am a bit rusty at it now, I was reasonably adept at shooting while moving.

This is an early picture of the range taken by a friend. The height of the berms was increased after a major local construction project made a bunch of free dirt available. Gravel was put on the floor, and my cousin's grandson says that he'll gravel the driveway down to the range.

DSCF0240Medium.jpg


Now that the weather seems to have stabilized around here, I intend to use it a lot more.

Anyway, back to training, does the ability to shoot small groups in what the quoted poster refers to as 'square range' shooting, mean that you are able to protect yourself on the street?
 
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