Friend refused on background for a nice 36-1

[Marshal Tom]

An old guy that I have known since I got here as Chief in 1996 came by my house wanting to sell a Taurus .357. He said that he once had a Chief Special and would love to have one again. I told him that I could find him one. Very next day, went into one of my usual spots and spotted one in the corner of the case. Excellent condition with holster and a speed loader included. It was a consignment gun for $399. I called him and told him about it. Couple of days later he went to get it and was refused on the background check. I had also gone into Cabela's the same day. They had two in much rougher shape at $449 ea. Both were square butt. The other one I had found for him was a round butt. I felt really bad but told him that he would just have to fill out the form and send it to CBI, then wait to see what they say. I may go back and get it myself for that price.

 

[sigp220.45]

I had a guy call the office breathing fire because he had just been denied on a background. I was curious so I ran him and NCIC came back with a conviction for theft of livestock in 1973. I’m pretty sure NCIC wasn’t around then, so someone must have entered it well after the fact.

I called him back and told him what I found. There was a long silence and then he said: Oh. That.

He hung up and I never heard from him again.

 

[hoc9sw]

I ran into an issue with a friend who wanted a pistol I need to sell. Everything was fine, face-to-face, he's a good kid and works where he gets background checked at intervals.

UNTIL - he went on vacation to Europe, then Colorado. Guess what he posted on FB - lots of "legal" weed pics and stories. I've explained to him that state law does not trump federal law, and that I can't sell it to him anymore. TX law doesn't say a lot, but a FTF can only be between people who are not prohibited. It is my obligation to make that judgement call.

 

[ispcapt]

I had a guy call the office breathing fire because he had just been denied on a background. I was curious so I ran him and NCIC came back with a conviction for theft of livestock in 1973. I’m pretty sure NCIC wasn’t around then, so someone must have entered it well after the fact.

Actually NCIC was first started in the mid/late 1960s. One of the SAs I worked with in 1971 had worked on the development of NCIC when he was at FBIHQ in the mid and late 1960s.
I used it when I started in 1971. Had to cut a punch tape then feed it thru the reader. Was a real pain to use when entering bait money. There was no printing on the tape so you couldn't see if you made an error until you ran the tape and did the entry.

 

[Flattop5]

Background checks are unconstitutional. They presume that you're "guilty" until you prove your "innocence." Little things can trip you up on background checks, including misdemeanor crimes and poor record-keeping by half-witted flunkies in Washington, D.C.

(*sigh*) I miss America. If you see her, tell her to come home.


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[LVSteve]

I've seen somebody refused for having unpaid parking fines. In NV Highway Patrol do the checks so if you haven't paid your littlering fine, you don't get your gun.

 

[HKSmith]

Background checks are unconstitutional. They presume that you're "guilty" until you prove your "innocence." Little things can trip you up on background checks, including misdemeanor crimes and poor record-keeping by half-witted flunkies in Washington, D.C.

(*sigh*) I miss America. If you see her, tell her to come home.


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Actually, background checks are constitutional. In the 2009 Heller decision, Justice Antonin Scalia found that the Second Amendment guarantees the individual right to possess firearms, but that right is not absolute. Among the limitations is the prohibition of firearms to convicted felons. Hence the need for background checks. Since the late Justice Scalia was one of the greatest conservative legal scholars of the last century, I don’t see this decision being overturned in the foreseeable future.

Also, the presumption of innocence refers to people accused of a crime, not people trying to buy a gun. Running a background check is not an accusation of a crime.

 

[MixmodelA]

"Friend refused"

PLEASE don't go and buy it for him. I did not read in your post that you intend to do so, but please don't be tempted to do it!!! Thanks! Mick

 

[Absalom]

Actually NCIC was first started in the mid/late 1960s. One of the SAs I worked with in 1971 had worked on the development of NCIC when he was at FBIHQ in the mid and late 1960s.
....

In Oregon, the background check includes not just the Brady check on the buyer (NICS), but also runs the gun itself through NCIC for any theft reports, which is the part I appreciate.

The only problem is that the system does not require sufficient parameters for a positive match: during the numerical era before 1968, a “revolver, S&W, .38 cal, #12345”, could fit a dozen different guns.

I had a transfer stuck on a theft report from 1968 a few years ago. The reporting sheriff’s dept took some time and probably was not happy to have to dig out the old files on microfiche, only to determine this couldn’t be their gun.

 

[andy52]

It's nice to have a Military background with a high security clearance they never go away unless rescinded and background checks take very little time.

 

[Jeppo]

Riddle me this...

In Oregon, the background check includes not just the Brady check on the buyer (NICS), but also runs the gun itself through NCIC for any theft reports, which is the part I appreciate.

This is something that’s always baffled me...

Here in NC, a handgun can be purchased ONLY by those in possession of a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) or a PPP (Pistol Purchase Permit). Both are issued by the local Sheriff following a background check. The CHP is valid for 5 years and any number of purchases during that period. The PPP is valid for one gun although multiple permits may be purchased (in my county, up to 3 per a single request).

Purchases from an FFL require the 4473 (obviously) while private purchases only require presentation of a valid drivers license and the relevant permit (interestingly, the law doesn’t appear to require surrender of the PPP although that surely must have been the intention).

So now my issue...

• As many firearms purchases are conducted privately
• As there certainly must me a governmental desire to reduce sales of stolen firearms (which would perhaps lead to reduction in firearms thefts)
• As there is a database of stolen firearms

Why don’t private parties have access to that database? Wouldn’t the possessor of that database like me to be sure I’m not purchasing a stolen firearm????

 

[clevolver]

Background checks are unconstitutional. They presume that you're "guilty" until you prove your "innocence." Little things can trip you up on background checks, including misdemeanor crimes and poor record-keeping by half-witted flunkies in Washington, D.C.



(*sigh*) I miss America. If you see her, tell her to come home.





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How does a background check that finds you were convicted of a crime serious enough to cause you to lose your right to own a gun presume that you're guilty? It seems to me that it's a check to see if you have any convictions, and a conviction is not a presumption. It's a conviction!

Not having a conviction on the record doesn't prove that you're innocent. Every convict ever has had a period of time in their life when they were guilty, yet had no conviction in their record.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Interesting point

It's nice to have a Military background with a high security clearance they never go away unless rescinded and background checks take very little time.

I received a top secret security clearance back in mid-1960s during my Army hitch. I have no knowledge as to whether that clearance is discoverable on a NICS check. Somehow, I doubt it's still there.

 

[Absalom]

....
Why don’t private parties have access to that database? Wouldn’t the possessor of that database like me to be sure I’m not purchasing a stolen firearm????

This is a matter of states’ rights. Beyond the federally required Brady check (of the person, not the gun), it is up to the state legislature to determine how the check is conducted.

Access to the databases, which contain a lot of confidential information, obviously has to be restricted. But your state can decide which law enforcement agency conducts checks, and who can call them for a check on a gun.

In Oregon, for example, anybody, FFL or private citizen, until a few years ago was able to call the firearms unit of the State Police which conducts the comprehensive background checks (state and federal databases) and have them run a gun before a private sale. Unfortunately, in 2015 a law was passed that required all private sales to go through an FFL who now has to run a background check, so public access went away.

 

[sigp220.45]

It's nice to have a Military background with a high security clearance they never go away unless rescinded and background checks take very little time.

Military security clearances expire 2 years after separation or retirement unless it is required for a civilian job. I don’t think a NICs check will show a clearance, just criminal stuff. I’ve run hundreds of criminal histories and have never seen a clearance referenced, even for veterans. You’re probably a solid citizen with no issues so you fly through.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Actually NCIC was first started in the mid/late 1960s. One of the SAs I worked with in 1971 had worked on the development of NCIC when he was at FBIHQ in the mid and late 1960s.
I used it when I started in 1971. Had to cut a punch tape then feed it thru the reader. Was a real pain to use when entering bait money. There was no printing on the tape so you couldn't see if you made an error until you ran the tape and did the entry.

The old Western Union terminals, the size of a large desk.

 

[ispcapt]

Military security clearances expire 2 years after separation or retirement unless it is required for a civilian job. I don’t think a NICs check will show a clearance, just criminal stuff. I’ve run hundreds of criminal histories and have never seen a clearance referenced, even for veterans. You’re probably a solid citizen with no issues so you fly through.

sigp220.45 is correct. Security clearances are not indefinite. Not only do they expire but they have to be updated. There's no such clearance as 'for life".
Also correct that NICs does not show security clearances. You don't inquire a computer to find if someone has a security clearance. Clearances are not done that way. You don't carry a card around showing you have a security clearance. A few times I've had someone show me a card showing they had a Above Top Secret clearance. No they didn't. You don't get a special card. Doesn't work that way. If an agency needs to know if you have a clearance they'll contact the agency who issued your clearance and inquire. If the inquiring agency has a legit reason to know maybe the issuing agency will release that info.
Having or having had a security clearance does not grant anyone any special dispensation, authority, or honors. They can and are pulled immediately for almost any reason or for no reason and if it's no longer needed.
On the topic of security clearances there's always someone who pipes up they had a clearance above Top Secret. No they didn't. There is no clearance higher than Top Secret. There are some endorsements like Special Compartment and Special Access. Neither are levels of clearance but can be a designation for Secret or Top Secret. They're limited for special access for a specific mission or job. Any person who had an actual security clearance knows just because you have a clearance doesn't mean you get to see everything classified at that level. IF they've had a clearance then they've heard "Need to know". If you don't need to know they you don't get to see it regardless if you have a clearance.

The old Western Union terminals, the size of a large desk.

Yup that's them.

 

[Sistema1927]

I received a top secret security clearance back in mid-1960s during my Army hitch. I have no knowledge as to whether that clearance is discoverable on a NICS check. Somehow, I doubt it's still there.

I also had a TS, back in the early 1980's. I doubt seriously that it is a factor on NICS checks. Why would it?

 

[Steve912]

I received a top secret security clearance back in mid-1960s during my Army hitch. I have no knowledge as to whether that clearance is discoverable on a NICS check. Somehow, I doubt it's still there.

I don't recall ever seeing anything on NCIC regarding an
individual's security clearance. Could they have added it,
since 2004--maybe someone current with the system can
answer that.

 

[Absalom]

sigp220.45 is correct. Security clearances are not indefinite. Not only do they expire but they have to be updated. There's no such clearance as 'for life".
......

After reading all this, I’m worried that the Junior Ranger badge I was awarded in Death Valley (for chaperoning a group of kids during a ranger talk) isn’t showing up on my background check anymore, either ...