Friend refused on background for a nice 36-1

[Steve912]

Why don’t private parties have access to that database? Wouldn’t the possessor of that database like me to be sure I’m not purchasing a stolen firearm????

I had an offer for a firearm from a casual acquaintance (I
kinda knew him, but not for years and years). I asked how
he came by it, and he said a friend (who I did not know, at
all) came by with it, saying he needed rent money.

I called the Sheriff's Office, explained the situation, and
eventually ended up talking to one of the investigators.
He ran the s/n and told me it showed clear in NCIC--at
least at that point in time.

 

[Steve912]

I had a guy call the office breathing fire because he had just been denied on a background. I was curious so I ran him and NCIC came back with a conviction for theft of livestock in 1973. I’m pretty sure NCIC wasn’t around then, so someone must have entered it well after the fact.

I called him back and told him what I found. There was a long silence and then he said: Oh. That.
.

Hilarious!

FBI says:

NCIC was launched on January 27, 1967 with five files and 356,784 records. By the end of 2015, NCIC contained 12 million active records in 21 files. During 2015, NCIC averaged 12.6 million transactions per day.

National Crime Information Center (NCIC) — FBI

 

[Steve912]

It's nice to have a Military background with a high security clearance they never go away unless rescinded and background checks take very little time.

Ever heard the letters "PRI"?

 

[andy52]

I received a top secret security clearance back in mid-1960s during my Army hitch. I have no knowledge as to whether that clearance is discoverable on a NICS check. Somehow, I doubt it's still there.

It is and always will be, unless rescinded it will be with you for the rest of your life the government keeps track of those things. I don't mean to imply you can walk onto a military base or any other high security facility. If you were to want to reactivate that clearance you would have to go through the steps, but the original info is still there.

 

[frogger1040]

Actually, background checks are constitutional. In the 2009 Heller decision, Justice Antonin Scalia found that the Second Amendment guarantees the individual right to possess firearms, but that right is not absolute. Among the limitations is the prohibition of firearms to convicted felons. Hence the need for background checks. Since the late Justice Scalia was one of the greatest conservative legal scholars of the last century, I don’t see this decision being overturned in the foreseeable future.

Also, the presumption of innocence refers to people accused of a crime, not people trying to buy a gun. Running a background check is not an accusation of a crime.

Not 100% on this BUT I do have an M.S. in C.J. Prosecutors prosecute innocent people, often. In order to do this they PRESUME guilt. Otherwise prosecutions would be pointless. Also when they convict an innocent person prosecutors are immune from penalties by litigation. Correct me where I am incorrect. Thanks.

 

[Honest-Ab]

I had a fellow who wanted my Ruger 357. He said he had recently purchased a Taurus from a local gun shop, and they would do the transfer. I dropped off the gun, and was assured by the owner that the buyer was ok as he had cleared for the Taurus a few weeks prior. He came back denied. Neither he or the owner know why. I offered to take the gun back, but he's contesting it. One never knows.

 

[sigp220.45]

It is and always will be, unless rescinded it will be with you for the rest of your life the government keeps track of those things. I don't mean to imply you can walk onto a military base or any other high security facility. If you were to want to reactivate that clearance you would have to go through the steps, but the original info is still there.

Well, no. Once your clearance expires (2 years) you go back to square one. Its like you never had one.

I had a TS/SCI that required a yearly polygraph. When I retired a nice lady in our office did some kind of magic that “passed through” my clearance to the defense contractor I now work for, but I’m sure its not a TS/SCI anymore because its been three years and no poly for me. If I tried to get into my old workplace somebody would shoot me.

No matter, because whatever it is isn’t accessible to somebody running a NICs check and it will have no effect on a background check to buy a gun.

 

[hoc9sw]

I know there were many checks run on me, as much from the neighbors asking why the Govt men were asking around about me. My last real 4473 was virtually instant, but now with a CHL it isn't an issue at all.

 

[PawDawg]

Well, no. Once your clearance expires (2 years) you go back to square one. Its like you never had one.

I had a TS/SCI that required a yearly polygraph. When I retired a nice lady in our office did some kind of magic that “passed through” my clearance to the defense contractor I now work for, but I’m sure its not a TS/SCI anymore because its been three years and no poly for me. If I tried to get into my old workplace somebody would shoot me.

No matter, because whatever it is isn’t accessible to somebody running a NICs check and it will have no effect on a background check to buy a gun.

+1, True statement. I do federal background investigations for security clearances, for the past ten years as a federal contract investigator, after a 23 year career as Fed LE (retired). None are lifetime, and none will show on an NICS check. Mine has to be renewed every five years via a re-investigation.

 

[BC38]

PLEASE don't go and buy it for him. I did not read in your post that you intend to do so, but please don't be tempted to do it!!! Thanks! Mick

I agree with this, however, I would be tempted to buy it so that it doesn't get away, and then when his BGC issues get resolved you can sell it to him then.

 

[Tom K]

Ever heard the letters "PRI"?

Public Radio International?

 

[Steve912]

I agree with this, however, I would be tempted to buy it so that it doesn't get away, and then when his BGC issues get resolved you can sell it to him then.

Straw purchase vs "deferred straw purchase"?

 

[Steve912]

Public Radio International?

Periodic reinvestigation. Comes with *every* security clearance,
ever. Without it, the clearance lapses. Used to be five years, the
guys working it currently can advise. No "lifetime clearance".

Only lifetime security clearances are the ones that come in
Cracker Jack boxes, with secret decoder rings.

 

[LVSteve]

I can't think of a bigger possible breach of security than putting .gov folks' security status into the NICS system. I'd have a fit if I was in that world and was told that every Tom, Dick and Harry in LE had access. No "Need to know" applies big time.

Oh wait, there was that hack of the OPM, so maybe it doesn't matter any more.

 

[mh51]

Actually NCIC was first started in the mid/late 1960s. One of the SAs I worked with in 1971 had worked on the development of NCIC when he was at FBIHQ in the mid and late 1960s.
I used it when I started in 1971. Had to cut a punch tape then feed it thru the reader. Was a real pain to use when entering bait money. There was no printing on the tape so you couldn't see if you made an error until you ran the tape and did the entry.

Know the feeling!! You had to complete the tape and then run it, and if there was even one error, it would stop and you'd have to start again.

 

[31FordA]

There was a local resident a while back who would regularly purchase firearms and pass the background check (PICS here in PA, we have to be special). Then one day he got denied, which he appealed. It turned out that when he was in the service back in the 1960’s he shot a fellow serviceman to death while goofing around with his 1911. After close to 40 years the court martial record finally made it into the system and he was denied. He was never prosecuted for all the times he filled out the forms and forgot the dishonorable discharge.

 

[charlie sherrill]

I was sitting at a FFL friend's gun show tables when a guy filled out the 4473 to purchase a hunting rifle. My friend told me "He's good because I've sold to him before with no problems." He came back denied. I did some checking and what happened was a small town clerk entered him on NCIC for a warrant for an unpaid traffic fine for running a stop sign. NCIC is for felonies only and the clerk clearly broke the law. The guy didn't get the rifle then, but after several months, paying the ticket, and hassling with the NCIC's people he got his rifle. I have a neighbor who has a 40 something year old marijuana conviction that blips him when he tries to buy a gun. The amount of marijuana (one joint) was a felony back then but has since been a misdemeanor for a very long time. He was a hippy type back then but left that lifestyle long ago. He told me that it was legal for him to own guns but he had to buy them privately because he couldn't pass the NCIC's check. I told him I wouldn't bet my freedom on it and he might want to spend a little money on a lawyer to see if he could get it straightened out. Obviously there's several different ways you can get caught up in this. Expungements and pardons don't always show up in a NCIC's check either.

 

[Steve912]

I did some checking and what happened was a small town clerk entered him on NCIC for a warrant for an unpaid traffic fine for running a stop sign. NCIC is for felonies only and the clerk clearly broke the law.

Expungements and pardons don't always show up in a NCIC's check either.

NCIC will list warrants (FTA/FTP) for traffic cites.

The human component of any system is always capable of
messing up, and sometimes expungements/pardons etc,
aren't entered. If nobody imputs the info, it remains
unchanged.

No comment on who "clearly broke the law", regarding
doing 'some checking'.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I know that in recent years, agencies have been under a lot of pressure to both insure the accuracy of the records already in NCIC, and to enter archival material. After I retired, I went to work for a local PA as his investigator. One of my jobs was to drag old files from the elevated basement storage hobbit for the office staff to verify entry. The concrete ceiling was about four and a half feet high. I had to wear a helmet . . .

I had a guy call the office breathing fire because he had just been denied on a background. I was curious so I ran him and NCIC came back with a conviction for theft of livestock in 1973. I’m pretty sure NCIC wasn’t around then, so someone must have entered it well after the fact.

 

[Muss Muggins]

NCIC is for felonies only and the clerk clearly broke the law.

Incorrect . . .

He told me that it was legal for him to own guns but he had to buy them privately because he couldn't pass the NCIC's check.

it is not legal for him to own guns. He was convicted of a felony, and unless he's been pardoned, it's still a felony. He is committing a felony now, probably several, and anybody he tells that story to is also committing a felony, because he apparently leads with "I was convicted of a felony, but . . . "