Two more .380s, two more fails

[Echo40]

Range Report: Ruger LCP 10th Anniversary Edition

A few weeks ago I got a brand new Ruger LCP 10th Anniversary Edition which I have since taken out for a short range trip.

I am happy to report that my Ruger LCP performed flawlessly. Granted that I only fired 50 rounds of Remington UMC 95gr FMJ and one magazine of Hornady American Gunner 90gr XTP, but for me that's enough to be confident in its ability to feed at least the two magazines I will be carrying on my person should the need to do so ever arise.
I shot it one-handed, two-handed, and even intentionally limp-wristed it, just to see if it would choke, but it fed every last round without issue.

The gun was a bit snappy, which comes as no surprise seeing as it's a 9oz gun firing .380 ACP, but it's not really uncomfortable to shoot. It will jump around in your hand if you don't grip it tightly, but it doesn't hurt. However, after shooting a full box of 50 rounds, I was no longer interested in shooting it because while it isn't painful to shoot, it's not really "fun" to shoot either.

Overall, I'm very pleased with my new LCP and can now carry it with confidence.

Note: I cleaned and lubricated my LCP prior to taking it out to the range because I don't mess around, nor do I subscribe to lofty ideals such as that every firearm should function perfectly right out of the box, especially not inexpensive mass-produced pocket pistols.

 

[Bill Lear]

A few years ago I hit a deer with my truck. I went to put it out of its misery with a shot to the top of its skull with a 380. It did not penetrate the skull so I had to shoot a second time in the heart. I switched to a J Frame after that. I have two LCP and I have had zero issues after they had 250 +\- rounds through them. My disappointment is with the round not the firearm.

If you compare, more effective rounds in 380, 9mm, and 38 Spl tend to be the heavier bullet loads. I used to be all in love with 115 grain 9mm and considered 124 overly heavy, until I saw how much BETTER a 147 grain performs (in general)! The same goes double for the 380. 65 grain hollowpoints that expand aren't likely to make it through enough to be sure. The old standard 95 grain ball would do the PRIMARY job of a bullet very well - punch a hole deep, if not clean through! Anytime a bullet goes all the way through you know it put a hole through everything in the middle!
The 38 Special earned a good reputation in 158 grain soft-lead SWC's loaded up to around 900+fps from a 4" barrel service revolver. Any load - such as the current one from Buffalo Bore that duplicates or comes close to that is a good choice.

 

[Cal44]

It isn't always an issue of experience.

I went shooting with a friend and let him try my Sig P238. He had two jams in the first magazine and gave it back to me.

He is an LEO and an experienced "gun guy".

He said he has trouble limp wristing such a small gun.

My P238 has always been reliable for me -- right before and right after he shot it and with the same ammo.

People need to practice with an individual gun and learn it's idiosyncrasies and what ammo it likes.

Most likely many people attending their first CCW class haven't practiced much with the guns they bring to class.

Maybe not even fired it at all.

Perhaps lack of practice with a particular firearm is a more important factor than caliber.

 

[younggun456]

1st off I will say I have a few 380 pistols but don't really carry them much. For the size and weight going up to a small 9 or j frame isn't much different. 2nd I see a lot of people mention intros thread how the love and use the sig 238 often. My question to them is why the 238 over the 938 they have almost the exact same dimensions?

 

[Triggernosis]

2nd I see a lot of people mention intros thread how the love and use the sig 238 often. My question to them is why the 238 over the 938 they have almost the exact same dimensions?

Almost is the operative word here. They are almost the same dimensions, but not quite. The 238 is definitely, and noticeably, smaller - smaller in the hand, smaller on the hip, smaller IWB, which allows for more discreet and comfortable carry that many people desire.

 

[McChemist]

I concur. My wife has small hands and arthritis. She has difficulty getting a secure grip on my double stack 9 mm SD9 and has to really struggle to move the slide it as well. So I bought her a 380 Auto EZ. She has no problems handling that pistol. Now I have to get her to the range to use it. I guess the biggest failure would be if a weapon wasn't used when needed due to physical or mental inhibitions.

S&W has received an award for this weapon from the NRA. Female shooters are a growing market segment. If the Lucky Gunner studies on different ammunition (well done and good source of comparative data) are any indications, the ammunition manufacturers are responding as well with better 380 loads.

 

[max503]

I have a .380 ACP Beretta 84 and a model 85. Both pistols are supremely safe, accurate, and dependable, and combined with the confidence a lot of practice generates, I feel very good about carrying them.

The older I get the better a 380 like that Beretta looks. I just don't like recoil pounding my hands anymore. It ain't fun once you get much past 60.

 

[LCC]

One of the problems with small auto's is slide interference from the grip due to the small frame. Even mild slide interference will cause FTF.
At this point, the better .380's are very reliable, only moved on from a very dependable LCP2 to a just as dependable G42 because the G42 is more accurate with less recoil.
Tried pocket carrying a G43...like walking around with a small brick all day, and required more effort to cleanly pull and deploy. And at 70, a J-Frame just ain't fun to shoot a couple of boxes through, whereas the G42 is. Carry what you shoot well, regardless of caliber=right gun for you.

 

[LVSteve]

One of the problems with small auto's is slide interference from the grip due to the small frame. Even mild slide interference will cause FTF.

It's amazing how fixed some folk are with regard to their grip. one size doesn't fit all, and keeping your extremities off the moving parts is important.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I am very outspoken in my catagoric dislike of .380acp , for a whole buncha reasons . But even I don't claim they are inherently incapable of going bang repeatedly .

And actually my AMT Backup .380 is reliable ( with fmj and selected jhp ) , nor are AMT Backups anywhere near the worst guns of all time .

 

[gman51]

I am guessing if the gun that was having problems was put in a solid mount and was fired that the gun just might not have any jams.
I believe many FTE or other feeding problems are the result of a weak hold. Limp wrist problem. Just like people drop the muzzle due to recoil anticipation I believe people also often let up on their grip of the gun due to tired/ weakened hands.
Also it isn't that uncommon for the hand to become weakened from prolonged exposure to shooting. Then limp wrist hold sets in causing problems. I was having a problem with my LC9s jamming due to FTE. The lowest count for any failure was around 48 rounds and that only happened twice. The most failures happened at 100- 170 continuous rounds. I had more than a dozen failures then. They would have several in a row. I would clean the load ramp and then it might go another 20 rounds till it jammed again. Clean the ramp and it would go another 20 or more rounds.
Limp wrist was mentioned to me but I didn't think I was doing that. I sent the gun back to Ruger and I got it back in a week turn around. They replaced the ejector and the barrel. They shot around 50 rounds using two types of ammo and had no failures.
I tested the gun for problems and at 48th round it jammed just like before. I thought dang it the problem is still there. I kept shooting and it didn't jam again till around the 70th round. I thought did I limp wrist it. I did notice my hand was feeling some weakness and discomfort to it. So I made sure I had a very firm hold on it then and that I wasn't riding the slide with any part of my hand. Well how about that, no failures.
I came to the conclusion that after many rounds fired my hand had a weakened hold on the gun. I then figured out that my taking a break and cleaning the ramp gave my hand a break to relax a bit so I could again naturally get a strong hold on the gun. Shooters sometimes have a problem with hand shake becoming a problem. I also think that can be due to hand stress getting to be to much.
I believe I proved to myself that I was at times limp wrist gripping the gun. Since then I will shoot about 3 mags of ammo and not have any failures. I am firmly believing this gun is dependable as a CC defensive gun. I doubt I will ever be involved in a shooting and I know I will not have more than 24 rounds on me to shoot anyway. So I have no doubt it would be dependable.

Bench test with strong mount holding any problem gun and see if it still fails to function. I believe you might be surprised the gun isn't the problem. I would be interested to know what you find.
The problem with small mouse carry guns is they can be real kickers punishing the hands. My LC9s isn't a mouse gun and I don't even consider the recoil to be harsh either but the hand can react to it more than we do. The hand often tires quicker than the mind does. Close to 50 rounds my hand feels like it could use a break to relax before continuing.

 

[oldiegoldie]

Several years ago, and I mean at least ten or more, I vaguely remember one of the gun magazines doing some extensive tests in order to find the most reliable .380 pocket pistol.

Several hundred rounds were fired from each handgun, and only one functioned perfectly without a hiccup, failure to fire, failure to eject, stovepipe, etc.

It was the Rohrbaugh .380. Of course, at that time, the Rohrbaugh was going for eleven hundred bucks. Remington bought them out in 2014 and claims that their RM380 is essentially the same gun as the Rohrbaugh 380.

Now, folks, the key operating word here is "essentially." Like I mentioned previously, the Rohrbaugh was selling for over a thousand dollars whereas the RM380 goes for about three hundred bucks.

I don't know about you, but I'm having a real tough time figuring out how Remington can save $800 and still produce the same gun. I have serious doubts that it's just because Remington had a sudden rush of kind-hearted generosity.

you will find very few negative reports regarding the reliability of the RM380. i have 2 of them and they have been 100% reliable. have no idea how Rem produces them so cheaply. of course Remington has had a run in with the bankruptcy court. i think they are out of bankruptcy now.

 

[gman51]

It could be Remington is selling them for a lot less to get people to buy them thus building back up belief in Remington again being a quality gun maker.

 

[JohnZMI]

Fascinating thread - long, but I enjoyed going all the way through it. I'll just share my experience. I'm 78, have 16 or so handguns, and ten of them are .380's:

Browning 1911-380 Black Label
Beretta 84F Cheetah
Beretta 85F Cheetah
Beretta 86B Cheetah (tilt-up)
Ruger LCP Custom
Bersa Thunder 380
Sig Sauer P238
S&W M&P 380 EZ
Taurus Spectrum
Walther PPK/S (S&W)

They don't all get fired regularly, but they all get to the range at least once a year, followed by a thorough cleaning. I use ordinary brass-cased commercial PMC or Fiocchi or Federal 95-gr. FMJ ammo or 95-gr. reloads sold by the range. I've been well aware of the possible results of loose grip or limp-wristing automatics for many years, and I can't recall any malfunction incidents with any of my guns. I've never tried any steel or aluminum-cased ammunition in any of them. The P238 is my favorite carry gun, and I bought the 380EZ for my wife (70), who has had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands after 30 years on a GM graphic illustrator's drafting table and arthritis, which limits her hand/finger strength. She uses a two-handed grip and has no problems. We both have our CPL's and have taken several rounds of handgun refresher training.

I also have a .45 Long Colt SAA replica, a couple of wartime Walther P.38's, several 9mm Berettas, Bersa Pro 9mm, an S&W 5906 9mm, and five different .22's. Gun enthusiasts and always learning.

 

[BC38]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I shot my Bersa CC380 for the first time today. 2-3 eight-round magazines (about a half box each) of four different loadings. Remington, IMAX, PMC, and Fiocchi - nearly two boxes worth in total.
This was a brand-new gun, right out of the box, never field stripped, cleaned, or anything. Straight from factory to range. No failures or malfunctions of any kind. So it can be done!

BTW, very nice shooting and accurate little pistol I might add.

 

[GerSan69]

Well, as long as it's brought back to life.... I've been looking at the new SCCY CPX-3 .380 for around $180-190. We only have 2 in that caliber, my pocket CW380 Kahr and a PPK that stays in the safe. I need another cheap gun (yeah, right) to balance all the expensive hardware I've been accumulating so far this year.

 

[lawdog45]

I have a Micro Desert Eagle that has been flawless.
Loaded with Buffalo Bore Lead Flat nose.
Don't carry it much since acquiring a P365 (also without failure).
If wearing a suit the MDE is in my strong side pocket.
The 365 in all other attire.

 

[bulletslap]

In nearly 50 years of ownership of various 380s, maybe 15 or so, I have only had three that were reliable. A Llama 380 ( I know hard to believe) early locked breech pistol, an Astra 300, and a Kel-tec P3AT.

The Astra and Llama were enjoyable to shoot, the Kel-Tec is not.

One other thing I have noticed is that in my experience 32 autos as a rule seem more reliable than 380s. Not that I would carry a 32 as an EDC.

 

[max503]

I want so much to be able to rely on the 380 but in my experience I cannot.

 

[Zebra War Wagon]

Over the decades, I have had probably 30 of various .380 pistols and I never had one that was 100% reliable, even with ball ammo. These were from every major manufacture. (No junk manufactures)