Suggestions requested, please!

[lrrifleman]

Hello folks! I'll try to keep this short and simple.

The lady that boards my children's horse (rescued thorobred) and her daughter know that I am a gun person and have turned to me for advice.

Recently, they have begun to have problems with a trespasser. The trespasser is running an ATV on their property without permission, and has tried to rundown the woman, her daughter, and two special needs grandchildren. When he trespasses, he usually has his stepson in tow as a shield. When the local police have been called, it was shared that the trespasser is known to the police and has a record for manslaughter. The police have actually recommended that the stable owner get a gun and keep it on her person when out and about on the property. Neither the lady or her daughter are gun people.

If it weren't for the stepson in tow, I believe a shotgun with buckshot would be the best recommendation. Because of the stepson, I would be more comfortable suggesting a six shot revolver (such as a Military & Police) as opposed to a semi-auto 9mm. Under normal circumstances, I would agree with the recommendation that she go to a range and try a rental or two. Sadly, all of the ranges in the area are shut down due to the virus, and this is not an option.

She is in the permit application process. I have already recommended that she and her daughter join U.S. Law Shield for potential legal representation.

If you were in my shoes, what would you recommend?

 

[SAFireman]

She would be well served by a surplus model 64. Simple, reliable, easy to shoot well for most folks. And likely fairly cheap 350-400. 38 Special FMJ practice ammo is cheap and is soft shooting. Get her some lessons and some game cameras.

A cell phone with video & camera. Dial 911 put the phone on speaker every time he is near!

 

[hoosierone]

Did the police talk to this guy? I wound go see the District Attorney and ask him what your options are, or maybe the sheriff instead of the DA.

With this guys record, I would be very careful in any confrontation.

Is her property big enough where she could practice shooting?

 

[Injunbro]

I agree w/ the above: a .38 special revolver is an excellent choice & simple to operate. This thread shows law enforcement is useless in crime prevention, only in (sometimes) making w/ arrests afterward despite the leftist gibberish. It also shows this ladies rights being ! least temporarily denied waiting for a permit to exercise her 2nd amendment rights. I'd file a complaint w/ the police dept. for failing to do their duty, a felon committing assault needs to be dealt w/ by them now.

 

[coachray]

It would be hard for me to make a specific suggestion for a particular weapon since you haven't seen them shoot. Are they legally allowed to shoot on their property? If so, I would probably have them shoot all of my handguns to see which one they shoot the best and then try to make a suggestion based on that.

 

[fiasconva]

Get proof and go to court and have him charged with trespassing. Since it's NJ I'd be worried about using any type of firearm, even to defend myself. Find her a firearm that she is comfortable with and make sure she gets some training with it.

 

[WR Moore]

A cell phone with video & camera. Dial 911 put the phone on speaker every time he is near!

The above for documentation. That should suffice for trespassing charges, if attempts to run down people or animals can be documented, you might have additional charges including assault. Or at least I'd hope so in the DPRNJ. Game cameras to catch video of the trespass incidents could also be helpful, depending upon if the head/face is concealed by a helmet.

Frankly, while the handgun suggestions make sense and certainly would be more handy, I'd also lean toward a 20 gauge shotgun (maybe 12 depending upon stature/build) and buckshot Possibly with a couple of slugs last in the magazine.

It's probable that a major issue would be could she make the decision to shoot with appropriate shot placement.

Added edit: took me awhile to find it, but I'd suggest the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. I'm aware of their participation in several cases and they do excellent work.

 

[ContinentalOp]

A few thoughts, if I were in your shoes...

Did she file a police report? That can go a long way to supporting her, legally, if anything should happen. Same with a protective order or temporary restraining order, but I'm not familiar with the application procedures so I don't know if they'd be applicable in this situation.

Is her property line clearly marked with signs prohibiting trespassing? Again, that can help support her case.

Not being a hunter, could trail cameras be used? If they trespass in the same area, putting up trail cameras can be set up to collect evidence, preferably disguised so the trespassers won't see them. Even better if they can record audio.

I'll also second recording audio and video of encounters.

As far as guns go, I think the simplicity of a DA revolver has much to recommend it. Of course, the way things are now, availability of guns and ammo can be a problem. She may have to settle for whatever she can get. Hopefully someone can help her with familiarization and training.

Also make sure they know the laws regarding the use of deadly force, particularly with regard to trespassers. And remind her that a gun is not a talisman to ward off evil. If she draws the gun to scare him off, he could potentially call the police and accuse her of brandishing/threatening him. Also, make sure she's willing to accept the responsibility. Not everybody is, and if she's not, that could lead to some bad situations.

Some kind of legal plan like US Law Shield can be beneficial. If nothing else, they may be able to advise her on what may be her best course of action. Full disclosure: I'm a member.

Lots of things to consider.

Finally, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Echo40]

Smith & Wesson Model 10 (or 64) with a 4" Barrel.

There have been a lot of these showing up for cheap as imported French Police trade-ins. My brother got one last year for about $250 and it is without a doubt the softest-shooting handgun I've ever fired. It softens the recoil of 158gr JSPs so much that it honestly shoots softer than my PPK/S .22 with 40gr Mini Mags, and 158gr JSPs are nothing to sneeze at, being a former police load well into the 1980s.

 

[mikerjf]

Large piles of horse manure in locations frequented by ATV's. Make sure that every time he goes on their land he comes back with horse*** all over his ride.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

About 30 years ago a rancher complained to me about trespassers with ATV's and dirt bikes on his land, disturbing his cattle, general nuisance type stuff. I asked him if he had posted his land. He replied that he had put up "no trespassing" signs everywhere he could think of posting.

I suggested new signs. "KEEP OUT! RIFLE RANGE!"

Seriously, what complaint could a trespasser make about bullets impacting nearby while he was trespassing on a posted rifle range? Please note the operative word "nearby"; I would never advise anyone to shoot at a person for simple trespassing.

I still remember the range officers in the Army announcing over loud-speakers "IS THERE ANYBODY DOWNRANGE? IS THERE ANYBODY DOWNRANGE? DOWNRANGE IS NO LONGER CLEAR! WE ARE ABOUT TO COMMENCE A LIVE FIRE EXERCISE!" Followed shortly by "READY ON THE LEFT? READY ON THE RIGHT? THE FIRING LINE IS READY. COMMENCE FIRING!"

I bet I could have some fun with an arrogant obnoxious trespassing neighbor in a rural area. With proper documentation and signage I can't see any court finding any fault with my fun.

But that is just me being me. The peaceful solution is probably the best solution. Motion-sensing trail cameras, maybe a few tire-piecing devices to disable the ATV's in place, all evidence conveyed to the proper law enforcement agency. But if all that doesn't work, I'm ready to post my new RIFLE RANGE on my property.

 

[tlawler]

Dig a few holes and fill them in with leaves

 

[Mike 139]

I would start by having the property fenced and posted, usually a sign every 300 feet or in compliance with State Statutes.

I would than read and thoroughly explain the State Statutes regarding use of Deadly Force as applicable to them.

Cameras and signage that Video surveillance is in use go a long way to stop trespassers.

As far as Firearms go, You need to ask her " If you have to shoot someone, are you willing to Shoot?"

As a Longtime Firearms Instructor, I've found there are People that want a firearm , but unwilling to use it. To these Folks, I recommend either a can of Wasp/Hornet Spray or a Kimber Pepper Blaster.

I ALWAYS start off People unfamiliar with shooting with a .22 Pistol. After they get comfortable with that,I advise them to pick a Handgun THEY like, fits THEM,and are comfortable with. Than back to the Range with practice ammo and than carry ammo.

Remember, Documentation is key, dates times etc ,and ALWAYS make a report and get the case number and a copy of the report.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Dig a few holes and fill them in with leaves

Deep holes, filled with pig droppings before the leaves are scattered over the top. Fresh pig droppings, well watered down, nice and succulent.

I can't help it. This is just how my mind works at times.

 

[ken158]

There should be more to this story... trespassing and trying to run someone over, the police know who it is and no warrants have been obtained yet?

 

[1sailor]

Having been the victim of ATV intrusions in the past I know how much damage they can cause. However. I would strongly advise against confronting her trespasser with a firearm. I hate to say this but if the authorities are at a loss to do anything maybe she should consult with a criminal lawyer. He would know what laws besides trespass are being violated and could advise her on what legal steps she can take. He could also advise her on what her rights are in defending herself.

 

[Johnnu2]

Has anyone suggested to her to hire off duty local or state cops as security guards...? I would think it could also be considered a business expense for tax purposes (?)

J.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I'd never recommend shooting a simple trespasser. Trying to run down these people probably means they were on the same bridal path driving recklessly.
Stepson in tow suggests intimate knowledge of the offender.
I'd secure and harden the perimeter as much as possible and post appropriate signage. Then get some game cameras placed. Also be prepared to video record any sightings and encounters with a handheld camera or phone.
Have a protective dog with them.
Keep filing complaints with the law.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[WR Moore]

Bears slightly on the posting suggestion by ContinentalOp: maybe 20 years ago a couple went to a local law enforcement agency and complained of people shooting/setting off explosives in a park. After some questioning, the LLEA called the MPs at Quantico. The couple got arrested by the MPs.

Seems they decided to "picnic" in the artillery impact area at Quantico. The borders of which are profusely posted. It would seem some folks can't read/comprehend.

The mention that the encounters may be on bridal paths introduces another issue: horses generally aren't fond of loud noises right by their sensitive ears.

 

[Enzo]

Large piles of horse manure in locations frequented by ATV's. Make sure that every time he goes on their land he comes back with horse*** all over his ride.

This, a few pits along the trail, a cable across the trail about chest high and of course signs stating all of these things are in place and no trespassing allowed.......