Luger P.08 age and value?

[Masterbuck54]

Ok here's another one I purchased this week that I'm not familiar with.

By looking on line it appears it's a Luger P.08 (please correct me if I've misidentified it).

No serial numbers I can find (I haven't disassembled it yet).

The only markings are an "02" that I've shown in the photos.

How does one determine its age?

What value would one place on one in this condition?

So can I assume this shoots a 9mm round? I tried one in the magazine and fits.

Came with two magazines.

I really need to stay away from guns I have no idea about

Masterbuck54

 

[diyj98]

That "02" is serial numbered parts. If there's no serial number on the front of the frame, looking with the barrel pointed at your face, my guess is that it was taken out of the factory before it was officially finished. I'd be curious to see the gun disassembled to see if any of the other parts had the matching "02". Are there any proof marks on it?

 

[sheepdawg]

Most Lugers have a date and the manufacturer stamped on top just in front of the toggle. Germans numbered just about everything so that one is an odd piece as I can see several parts that should be numbered but aren't. The magazine has an older wooden bottom, is it numbered?

 

[DWalt]

There will normally be something (often a 3-letter code or S/42) stamped on the top surface of the toggle, and the full SN (plus a letter) will be stamped on both the front of the frame and the bottom of the barrel. Plus nearly every component part will have the last two digits of the SN stamped on them. Very strange that yours does not, and I have no explanation.

 

[cmansguns]

Masterbuck54, That's a pretty nice looking Luger! Many years ago I was heavily into WWII milsurps, allies as well as axis firearms. The best Luger I had at the time, was a all original 41 byf (Mauser from the Oberndorf, Germany factory in November 1941). My example pictured below was what collectors called a "Black Widow" due to its all black plastic grips, which were unique to the pistol.

How do we find out all of this? Lugers were manufactured in "blocks" of approx. 10,000 at a time. By late 1942 Germany had shifted to manufacture of the less costly P-38 and the last Luger made at Oberndorf was s/n 9244 "i" block in November 1942.

All parts that are serial numbered (and there are several) carry the last 2 digits of the serial number (example my Luger was serial number 3577 "y" block (see pic) so all parts numbered had 77 stamped on them. The proof marks were usually double Eagles with E655. The magazines were also proofed with Eagle 37, and fxo. The magazine with my Luger was original and dated to C.G. Hanel Fabrication Plant in late November 1941.

If you seriously want to get more information and other Luger expert opinions, consider joining Jan Still's "Axis Powers" Forum. They have an astounding bunch of Luger guy's that really know their stuff on these Lugers.

As to value...an all matching P-08, wartime manufacture, original finish with original mag are in the $2,000 and up range when you can find them. Mismatched, non original grips and mags drops value considerably, however my opinion is now at least 10 years old so you may be surprised.

Anyway....enjoy the pics of my old 41 byf Black Widow Luger.

 

[schutzen-jager]

more info needed

caliber ? - markings on toggle + top of receiver ? - proof marks on barrel ? -

 

[Masterbuck54]

No other markings other than the "02" as shown two places which must be the last two digits of the serial#.

No proof markings.

No caliber marked on the barrel.

I will have to check the two magazines that came with it and pull off the grips to see if they might be numbered.

It still remains a mystery??

Masterbuck54

 

[schutzen-jager]

apx diameter of bore will establish caliber - any marking under safety lever ? - there is a number 03 stamped on sear bar - there are markings [ 3 digits ? ] that i can't make out in picture #4 on receiver flat below + to right of sear bar 03 marking -

 

[murphydog]

The absence of (many) visible numbers suggest it has been refinished.

As noted above, the serial number should be on the forward frame above the trigger guard, the nearby barrel, and the last two digits a bunch of other places like the sideplate.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Just as a nit-picking point of information. It's "P.08" not "P-08." The "P." was an abbreviation for "Pistole."

In Germany, this was pronounced (phonetically) as "Pay oct."

Same goes for the P.38, pronounced "Pay oct oond dry-sig" in German.

John

 

[Masterbuck54]

info added

Bore measures 0.303"

Wording under safety (see photo).

I had my wife look with a magnifying glass for any additional numbers other than the two places that reflect the "02" since she is a lot younger than me

Still no other markings.

Neither magazine marked.

And I corrected to read P.08

Attached a couple photos of the holster that came with it...obviously a new one.

Masterbuck54

 

[BB57]

With a .303" bore it'll most likely be chambered for 7.65 Luger / .30 Luger.
The 9mm Luger was in essence the 7.65 Luger /.30 Luger necked up to a tapered straight wall case.

Assuming it has all original parts, which does not appear to be the case, then you'd have a no chamber marked pistol with no stock lug, no grip safety with a 4" barrel, chambered in 7.65 Luger with a "GESICHERT" marked serrated safety lever.

The first option that comes on an identification chart using those features as a starting point is a 1908 Commercial Luger. However, they had a wide trigger with a narrow trigger guard. Yours looks like a wide trigger and wide trigger guard. They only made about 10,000 of them, so they are uncommon and one in un-refinished very good condition would bring around $2000.

The other 7.65 Luger / .30 Luger option with those features is the 1923 Stoeger American Eagle. But it had a wide trigger with a narrow trigger guard. They were rare and one in un-refinished very good condition would bring around $4000.

And in either case, it's a long list of very definitive markings that determine/confirm what it is and without them it's just a parts gun.

For reference purposes, a correct, matching number, DWM made pattern 1914 P.08 Luger is worth around $800-$1000 in very good condition. They were the most common P.08 variant.

Examples of P.08 Lugers in 7.65 Luger / .30 Luger bring a substantial premium as it's a less commonly encountered caliber.

However, without matching numbers the value of any Luger drops by about half. Similarly, a refinish will cut the value by about have.

That said, in both cases the floor is about $500 just due to their utility as a shooter.

Realistically, that's about where yours is at given the probable refinish and parts gun status, with maybe $100-$200 more due to the less common caliber.

 

[cjwils]

Is the absence of a serial number a legal problem for the owner, or does that problem not apply here for some reason?

 

[Kurusu]

I really need to stay away from guns I have no idea about

Masterbuck54

In this particular case I would agree.

Lots of things "weird" in this pistol.

The one that bothers me the most. Is the lack of serial number. This pistol would be completely ilegal where I live.

Edit. @ Masterbuck. Please go down an see my post # 26.

 

[Andyd]

The firearm that is shown is an early frame, without the Mauser hump that the Wehrmacht had required. The P.08 designation was added onto the left side of the frame in 1941. Civilian versions were called Selbstladepistole Parabellum. The long version was adopted by the Kriegsmarine in 1904 and it was termed the 04. In 1908 the Parabellum was adopted by the Reichswehr as the model 08. The "." in P.08 came much later and details can be found on page 223 of the inexpensive book of Hallock & van de Kamp and the directive that required the marking.

In the absence of military markings it is a Selbstlade Pistole Parabellum, no Null Acht and no 06/29 or anything else.

 

[Masterbuck54]

Thanks for the info

So I guess I just need to buy some Luger 30 ammo and shoot this thing.

Once I’m pushing up daisies one of my boys will inherit this pistol.

I’m only into this for $170 so no great loss for me.

Masterbuck54

 

[schutzen-jager]

holster is definitely a reproduction - my guess is tat it is pieced together from a parts kit that were sold by several suppliers 20+ years ago - i would have it checked by a gunsmith for head space + safety before using it -

 

[Absalom]

.....The one that bothers me the most. Is the lack of serial number. This pistol would be completely ilegal where I live.

Hey, the serial number is obviously 02

At $170 for this Luger, me don’t know nuthin’ better ....

 

[schutzen-jager]

the #2 would have to be stamped on frame proper to make it legally a serial number ! -

 

[Absalom]

.......
In the absence of military markings it is a Selbstlade Pistole Parabellum, no Null Acht and no 06/29 or anything else.

Such as here, 1912: