deadin
US Veteran
Isn't that where the fun is in the first place??
Is a chronograph necessary?
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I don't think you need one for plinking ammo as long as you are not pushing near max loads. You can use the bullet weight, type of bullet and type of powder and stay safe checking a couple of sources for the load. That is my opinion anyway.
Rammer Jammer
Member
I'm curious what my loads are on a chronograph but not enough to spend the money on one.
I reload #1 for economy and #2 for accuracy. If I can make 'em safe, cheap and they're accurate that's all I care about
I reload #1 for economy and #2 for accuracy. If I can make 'em safe, cheap and they're accurate that's all I care about
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Never thought about getting a chrono.
When I first started reloading I didn't trust the data in the manuals. I want accuracy and power. I tested every load in clean wet sand to see what my reloads were actually doing. Every bullet showed a light grey powder infront of a piece of metal jacket shrapnel. My hunting bullets were preforming spot on. I reloaded 100 rds, tested 60 rds for reliability and accuracy, 40 rounds went bear hunting. The bear never knew what hit it. Proven at the range and backup up by performance in the field. Do I have faith in my reloads you bet.
I loaded 100 rds exactly the same. I tried all different powder loads looking for accuracy and power. I noticed by backing off the powerful loads the accuracy got better.
When I first started reloading I didn't trust the data in the manuals. I want accuracy and power. I tested every load in clean wet sand to see what my reloads were actually doing. Every bullet showed a light grey powder infront of a piece of metal jacket shrapnel. My hunting bullets were preforming spot on. I reloaded 100 rds, tested 60 rds for reliability and accuracy, 40 rounds went bear hunting. The bear never knew what hit it. Proven at the range and backup up by performance in the field. Do I have faith in my reloads you bet.
I loaded 100 rds exactly the same. I tried all different powder loads looking for accuracy and power. I noticed by backing off the powerful loads the accuracy got better.
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I have experienced this in reloading for a bolt action 5.56 trying to guess at a load to make a ragged hole. I was able to make one dime sized group at 100 yards and after repeating the load multiple times never repeated it. I came to the conclusion it was a fluke and moved on to shooting steel. Much more fun to me. Now I just load for the pleasure. And believe it or not I actually do save money. And with the current climate I Can actually shoot my 38 and 357 because I've got plenty of components to make more as needed.
when doing loads for a snub nose, a chronograph is the only way to find if there is a point where more powder doesn't equal more velocity......just blowing it out the barrel.
Along with what everyone else has said
Also lets you use the energy tables for a load when you actually know the velocity from your gun/barrel length
Along with what everyone else has said
Also lets you use the energy tables for a load when you actually know the velocity from your gun/barrel length
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I like to know where my reloads are performing and just how consistent they are. The only real way I know how to do that is with a Chronograph. They are pretty reasonable and so there really is little excuse not to get one.
I also like to test Factory "carry loads" just to make sure the lot in question is both consistent and performing up to spec.
I also like to test Factory "carry loads" just to make sure the lot in question is both consistent and performing up to spec.
For low to mid-range handgun ammo, no, you really do not need a chronograph. The chronograph is a tool useful when trying to duplicate a factory load, to determine at what point increased powder charges no longer give a significant increase in velocity, development of maximum velocity loads, and for competition ammo that requires meeting velocity and bullet weight requirements.
It's not just hot loads......
I load everything from sub minimal to max and even some experimentation with obscure loads that I can find data for. The chrony is VITAL to tell me what i need to know. I wish I had a pressure test setup.
I load everything from sub minimal to max and even some experimentation with obscure loads that I can find data for. The chrony is VITAL to tell me what i need to know. I wish I had a pressure test setup.
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StrawHat
Member
A couple of posters have mentioned pressure reading. In a handgun, when you have the classic signs of pressure on the cartridge case, flattened primers etc., you are well into unsafe pressures. Reading pressure signs in rifle cases is much different than reading them in handguns.
As for a chronograph, it will tell you the velocity a certain load develops in a certain firearm. More important for rifles, less important for handguns.
A chronograph can not foretell an accurate load. Shooting does that.
Kevin
As for a chronograph, it will tell you the velocity a certain load develops in a certain firearm. More important for rifles, less important for handguns.
A chronograph can not foretell an accurate load. Shooting does that.
Kevin
When it comes to reading pressure signs, especially in pistols and revolvers, it is difficult and likely impossible to have a high degree of certainty. My only advice when looking for pressure signs is to compare fired reload brass and primers to factory ammo fired in the same firearm. That can provide you with some degree of recognizing an over-pressure load. Just looking for flattened primers is really insufficient, there are plenty of calibers and handguns that will flatten primers with maximum, but within safe pressure level loads. Bulged brass in the case web area is fairly common in handguns due to the design of the chambers and often generously sized chambers.
ultratec00
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If you are only loading for one firearm, kind of hard to justify buying a chrono even though there are some decent ones out there for around $100. If you intend on expanding your reloading repertoire a chrono is a useful tool to compare against the load data, which can vary greatly depending on bullet, case, manufacturer, primer, powder, intended firearm, seating depth, etc, etc... The variations tend to increase with rifle calibers.
I've been loading over 50yrs. Can't begin to recite the cartridges that I have loaded for and do load for. I don't have a chrony and never saw the need for one. I have a library of manuals and the velocity means nothing to me because I already know approx vel. I've never been interested in hot loads. I load for accuracy with a cartridge that is big enough to do the job.
I can see the value of a chrony to those who are actually designing cartridges or using new propellants. For most guys it's just another toy to play with.
I can see the value of a chrony to those who are actually designing cartridges or using new propellants. For most guys it's just another toy to play with.
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I loaded for decades without a chronograph. I estimated velocities from load data. I didn't get one until I started long range rifle competition and prices came way down.
I needed to clock my loads to determine velocity and develop drop tables for way out yonder trajectories plus needing to pay attention to velocity deviation. A 100 f/s difference can make a difference measured in feet out yonder.
Clocking my old loads showed my estimates/interpolated velocities were pretty darn close to reality for handgun loads. There were a couple of surprises with rifle loads, I was off by a couple hundred f/s. However, the deer didn't seem to notice the loss.
It sort of falls in the nice to have but you may/probably don't really need one. A lot depends upon what you're doing. Serious long range rifle, yep. Making power factor for handgun competition, questionable. Way back when we used ballistic pendulums, but prices on those are probably more than a chronograph now. You can, BTW, use a pendulum as a chronograph, waaaaay back when, they were the standard. Handgun practice ammo, no.
I needed to clock my loads to determine velocity and develop drop tables for way out yonder trajectories plus needing to pay attention to velocity deviation. A 100 f/s difference can make a difference measured in feet out yonder.
Clocking my old loads showed my estimates/interpolated velocities were pretty darn close to reality for handgun loads. There were a couple of surprises with rifle loads, I was off by a couple hundred f/s. However, the deer didn't seem to notice the loss.
It sort of falls in the nice to have but you may/probably don't really need one. A lot depends upon what you're doing. Serious long range rifle, yep. Making power factor for handgun competition, questionable. Way back when we used ballistic pendulums, but prices on those are probably more than a chronograph now. You can, BTW, use a pendulum as a chronograph, waaaaay back when, they were the standard. Handgun practice ammo, no.
I use the chronograph on about everything at least ones to see where I am at. They are cheap enough you can buy one without hurting the pocket book too much. I used to use a Chrony, ended up buying a Caldwell Ballistic Chronograph (seems like it was about $89) that has an APP on your smart phone so it logs the data instead of you having to write it down. Love it.
The chronograph will sometimes show problems you don't see otherwise. I once had a load going way faster than it was supposed to. Without the chronograph, I wouldn't have noticed it. Turns out, I had the bullet seated too long and it was pushed into the rifling when loading driving pressures up to dangerous levels.
It can also reveal those seasonal velocity changes others have mentioned. It is definitely more important on long range shooting over short range pistol plinking.
You may also find some load data isn't accurate with velocities in your gun. Some data doesn't even provide barrel length, so go find out what it is really doing in your guy, you have to chronograph it.
Rosewood
The chronograph will sometimes show problems you don't see otherwise. I once had a load going way faster than it was supposed to. Without the chronograph, I wouldn't have noticed it. Turns out, I had the bullet seated too long and it was pushed into the rifling when loading driving pressures up to dangerous levels.
It can also reveal those seasonal velocity changes others have mentioned. It is definitely more important on long range shooting over short range pistol plinking.
You may also find some load data isn't accurate with velocities in your gun. Some data doesn't even provide barrel length, so go find out what it is really doing in your guy, you have to chronograph it.
Rosewood
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll put a chronograph on the list but I don't think I'm going to lose sleep over not having one. I would be interested in the future to see how loads behave fired from different barrel lengths and such but for now just putting lead on paper will do. I think the biggest thing that was bugging me is the fact that I don't have one for one load data to go with my exact projectile but I'm not loading anywhere near max and have a pretty good representation of the projectile in the Speer manual.
For rifles it is a must, as stated by a few above if you know the speed of your bullet the ballistics apps or charts will get you very close.
I always reload for accuracy with rifle loads.
for pistol at defensive ranges not so much as long as iis a safe load. With that being said one good thing for pistol is if you chrono you bought Defensive rounds, then match the bullet weight with them to your reloads and if you can safely push them at the same speed you can practice with basically the same rounds as you carry, same recoil.
Then also always remember there are those who have shot their chrono, and those that haven't.....yet. And on that note if you have a chrono and use the sun shield replace the metal poles with wood dowel for the shade, if you hit the wood it will break and not ruin your chrono.
carry on
I always reload for accuracy with rifle loads.
for pistol at defensive ranges not so much as long as iis a safe load. With that being said one good thing for pistol is if you chrono you bought Defensive rounds, then match the bullet weight with them to your reloads and if you can safely push them at the same speed you can practice with basically the same rounds as you carry, same recoil.
Then also always remember there are those who have shot their chrono, and those that haven't.....yet. And on that note if you have a chrono and use the sun shield replace the metal poles with wood dowel for the shade, if you hit the wood it will break and not ruin your chrono.
carry on
AveragEd
Member
I've written several articles on using chronographs and their merits. I am one who does pay close attention to my standard deviation and extreme spread numbers although I have one rifle that defies logic - an extreme spread of 61fps resulted in a one-hole, five-shot 100-yard group - but it is an exception, not the rule.
If a load doesn't group well and has big SD and ES numbers, without a chronograph you'll never know that variation exists so you might blame yourself and waste more components and barrel wear duplicating those results without learning anything. Regardless of what your shooting is about, consistency is a major factor in accuracy and getting your SD and ES numbers down will usually result in tighter groups regardless of the type of firearm. Again, as I illustrated up front, exceptions will occur but that's exactly what they are - exceptions.
I've bought several "better" chronographs and always went back to my good old ProChrono. When aligned with those "better" units, the differences in readings were no greater than you would expect with the spacing involved. And the ProChrono works in lighting conditions that aren't the best - the "better" ones often didn't. I now use the ProChrono DLX and you can't spend a better $130 on your shooting. And if you shoot in pistol competition where your loads have to reach a certain power factor, the ProChrono app for your phone will provide that data for you.
Yep - every serious handloader should have a chronograph.
Ed
If a load doesn't group well and has big SD and ES numbers, without a chronograph you'll never know that variation exists so you might blame yourself and waste more components and barrel wear duplicating those results without learning anything. Regardless of what your shooting is about, consistency is a major factor in accuracy and getting your SD and ES numbers down will usually result in tighter groups regardless of the type of firearm. Again, as I illustrated up front, exceptions will occur but that's exactly what they are - exceptions.
I've bought several "better" chronographs and always went back to my good old ProChrono. When aligned with those "better" units, the differences in readings were no greater than you would expect with the spacing involved. And the ProChrono works in lighting conditions that aren't the best - the "better" ones often didn't. I now use the ProChrono DLX and you can't spend a better $130 on your shooting. And if you shoot in pistol competition where your loads have to reach a certain power factor, the ProChrono app for your phone will provide that data for you.
Yep - every serious handloader should have a chronograph.
Ed
At this point I don't shoot in any competitive groups and for the time being given up chasing the one ragged hole. It's safe to say having a chronograph May have helped achieve the consistency required to do so. But now I enjoy burning up and refilling the 30 carbine to feed my favorite rifle plinking steel. And with the way the world is right now it was easier and cheaper (I guess) to reload for my new found favorite pistols. From what I have gathered a chronograph has a purpose that I may want to fulfill down the road.
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