When .357 Sig is so much better why carry 9mm?

[WR Moore]

Dr. Roberts does not take into account the kinetic energy of the .357 sig round. It may not penatrate any deeper but it causes more shock to the brain.

Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[31FordA]

I like the .357 Sig cartridge, and after recent events have started carrying a Glock 32. After decades of shooting .357 Magnum out of snub revolvers I don't find the .357 Sig to be unpleasant at all. There are situations where I could see the noise and flame of the Sig round being useful. It's also a very flat shooting and accurate round. If there was a pistol caliber carbine in .357 Sig I'd buy one.

It appears that .357 Sig may be a bit more popular than most people think. I called a police supply business today to order some more .357 Sig and they were sold out. Back in mid March they had hundreds of cases of .357 Sig, sold it all. I put off buying more figuring it would never sell out, oops. Called another police supply, they were out too.

 

[max]

I almost got a .38 Super barrel for a 1911 recently. I decided I would stick with the 9mm. It will do all that I need. If I wasn't so old, I might try a 357 Sig, but just don't see the need to bother with it now.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bovine excretement.

 

[Rule3]

CLASS!, CLASS!


If the 40SW is so much better than a 9mm what happened to it??. It is 10mm light!


Watch this video, i posted before here.


One of the best videos on bullet testing


YouTube

 

[Racer X]

Since when, did the US Government, worry about the cost of things ?? !!

Do you have that in writing?

Remember back, when they bought toilet seats................. ??

I worked for a division of Olin for a while. You know, the makers of Winchester ammo? And the tank rounds for the Army? And the JSOW AGM-154? And the XM982 Excaliber GPS guided cannon?

Anyway, as for the US Military, think NATO compatibility. 9mm is the standard. Period. Nothing to do with the best.

 

[Abbynormal]

357 sig won't do anything 9mm won't do.

What the hell you smokin' son?

 

[REM 3200]

Whatever floats your boat.

I read all 87 of the posts in this thread. Erich's post sums it up.
Wish I could like it more than once.

 

[REM 3200]

According to the fort's records, even though men were shorter back then, the soldiers had to be 6 ft. tall minimum. This was true more or less on average in law enforcement and military applications until the 1980's and is even more so today. THAT is at least part of the reason we don't see .357 SIG more popular as you and I know it can do everything a 9mm can do but better.

I can't speak to the PD comment, but your comment about the military is dead wrong.
I have personal knowledge of the US Military back to 1931 and no such standard was in existence.
I enlisted in the US Army in 1963 at a height of 5 ft. 8 inches and 5'10" was about average in height then.
There was no 6 ft. standard.

 

[epj]

I can't speak to the PD comment, but your comment about the military is dead wrong.
I have personal knowledge of the US Military back to 1931 and no such standard was in existence.
I enlisted in the US Army in 1963 at a height of 5 ft. 8 inches and 5'10" was about average in height then.
There was no 6 ft. standard.

I'm pretty sure you were supposed to be 5,8 to get into Navy flight training program. I was about 5' 7", and the flight surgeon doing had me "stand up a little straighter" until he decided I was close enough.

 

[Dahak]

In looking at the stats, I think there is an additional factor to be considered, 357 Sig _should_ have a huge advantage because there are not a lot of untrained civilians using it. If someone buys a 357 Sig, I venture to guess that person is an experienced shooter and shoots regularly v. the majority of 9X19 carriers who only have that 1 weapon and maybe make it to the range once a year.

Assuming I am correct, the fact that the 357 Sig is not a lot more effective than the stats show would seem to indicate that its advantages as a round are not that great. in comparison to the 9X19. A better round with better shooters should be massively better, not marginally better.

*No studies to back this up, just pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me (but hey, I'm the one making it up, so of course it makes sense to me )

 

[Mahalo_.32]

I have seen tests where both 9mm and .357 have same penatration but the kinetic energy from .357 cannot easily be measured.

My everyday carry is usually my FN57 because the cartridge is totally bad *** but when I am not carrying that my .357Sig is my next logical choice.

I do prefer to plink with 9mm however

YouTube

 

[marathonrunner]

Can't remember a fatality that involved being shot with a .357 Sig down here. Mostly .22's 9's and fawtys Average shooter is poor and cannot afford the .357 Sig round. Recent homicides were going back to the basics like cane knives and folders. If it hits the right place it's gonna kill ya no matter what size round you are using . If I had to pick one center fire round for the rest on my life it would be a 9mm. Rifle round it would be the 7.62x39 Ubiquitous the world over and cheap too (compared to stuff like the 4.35 x 27 screaming whompenstomper). But for pure shootin' satisfaction, ya can't beat the good ol' .22rf. Aim straight and one will do the trick-if he's still movin' shoot again.

actually I have seen 22LR have a better one stop capacity than most other calibers. The 22LR may not be able to put down the most determined criminal, but it is nevertheless a very effective round if good shot placement

 

[hkcavalier]

.357SIG is not a good subcompact round. It's not even a good compact round. 40K PSI pressure, bottleneck cartridge...it's just not that efficient. No one wonders why there aren't any subcompacts in 7.62x25 or 5.7x28, right?

It really comes alive at about 5", a full-sized duty gun. Most factory ammo in the 125gr range clocks at about 1300fps from a 3" and 1500+ from the 5". That's a velocity jump you usually see out of, oh, I don't know, the .357 Magnum (funny how that works!). 9mm+P 124gr gains about 125fps in the same scenario. Plus, flash and blast are that much less. A Glock 24 or 35 with a .357SIG barrel would make a great home defense gun platform. Not that you see many 24s in the wild.

Conclusion: most of the handgun action is in compacts and subcompacts and the .357SIG is only slightly better than a 9mm+P from those guns, with lots more flash, blast, and recoil.

 

[Racer X]

I agree with EVERYTHING you typed! I have several 9mm's, but prefer to carry one of my FS M&P .40's. I have several LE trade in 1.0 40 calibers. One of them has a factory S&W .357 SIG barrel in it. I sometimes EDC it with Ranger T-Series 125 gr. Gold Talons. They're like a Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ on steroids.
So, yes, go in half with your buddy on the case of ammo. When you get them, PM me.

I can't find any info anywhere on Talon Golds, even on the Winchester LE website.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Whatever floats your boat.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Old cop]

I'm not a cop anymore (retired in '97) so my self defense needs are satisfied w/a J Frame and on occasion, my LCP. I was forced to use my issued .38 three times over 30 years so that's what I carry in retirement.

 

[Groo01]

Bottom Line:

A: .357 Sig and .40 S&W should never have been born; they are solutions looking for a non-existent problem. Now here's the heresy: The .45 ACP should also never have been born. It doesn't do anything to a person that a 9mm won't do just the same. They talk about the Moros, but never tell you the sequel, which is, the .45 didn't work any better than .38, and some Moros weren't even stopped by the .30-40 Krag rifle round.

B: 9mm Parabellum is all you need for anti-personnel work. The rest of the world somehow gets by without noticing any lack of lethality.

C: Big pistol cartridges are quintessentially American. They are useful for hunting, bear defense, and certain types of competition, but no more. Dirty Harry would have been better served with a Model 10 in .38 spl than the Magnum.

D: Shot placement and penetration are 100%. There is no evidence that can be gleaned from people who have been shot, be they living or dead, that hollow points, trick bullets, faster bullets, lighter bullets, heavier bullets, have any discernible differential effects.

E. They survive who put the most bullets in vital areas of the bad guy. The corollary is that more shots available is good, and less recoil means faster shots, which is even better. The conclusion from this is that the best cartridge is one that gives adequate penetration with the least recoil.

F: Building from E, in revolvers that is the .38 spl. In semi autos it's the 9mm, with the added benefit that in the semi, you also get the benefit of more rounds available.

G: In .357 Sig, you get a 9mm hopped up about another 200 fps or so from 9mm Parabellum. Since both cartridges will drive a bullet of ordinary weight (115 to 147 grains) to a speed that will penetrate adequately, you get no gain, but give up more recoil (slower shooting) and magazine capacity (fewer shots).

H: Generalizing from F and G, if you're carrying more than a .38 spl or a 9mm for self-protection, and don't have some rare highly specialized reason to do so (example: doubling as bear defense), you are overpowered and may pay the price.

Groo here
I agree BUT not for the reasons you name...
The 45acp is an extension of the 45 government [ aka 45 colt]
Guns for the cav. [aka horse mounted ]
The way to stop a cav charge is to hit the HORSE. [horse falls,causing all sorts of problems]
The effects on a person were secondary.[If it works on a 800lb horse a 200 lb man is easy.
The "rest of the world does not use 9mm "handguns" for primary SD.
The other countries use sub guns
Putting the hole in correct place is correct But,, as it takes 8 to 10 sec
for a person to pass out from blood loss. and this is the O2 in the brain
the number of holes means little.
The only advantage a 9mm has over a 38 is the number of rounds
[ allowing the shooter to fight without NEEDING to reload]
The reason for HP was not to make the bullet more EFFECTIVE but
to reduce target pass through and bullet bouncing of hard things [roads,
buildings etc][ I was there when they started]]
The hp still needs 1000fps to deform RELIABELY 900 for over 40cal
and that is at impact, so the more fps the quicker the bullet opens and slows down...
I never liked the idea of "well it is enough" rather "It will work no matter what."
As Keith said " Use enough gun"
Or JD Jones " pick the biggest thing you shoot well, then get the next thing larger and pratice, pratice, pratice,

 

[hkcavalier]

Decided to test some of this out myself. Going to build up a .357SIG longslide from a Polymer80 frame. I'll check back in early next year with my findings...

 

[Racer X]

Decided to test some of this out myself. Going to build up a .357SIG longslide from a Polymer80 frame. I'll check back in early next year with my findings...

absolutely. I'm getting a 1911A2 full sized with a 5" barrel, and a .357 SIG barrel, as well as a Glock M40 with a .357 SIG barrel. The M40 is a 6" 10mm.