Where would you start?
- Thread starter PPS1980
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Herky Bird
Member
I prefer the Model 27 N-Frame mostly because it looks nicer and it fits my hand better, I wear an XL-2XL glove size.
Both frame sizes weigh about the same. With the same barrel length, the L-Frame is noticeably nose heavier compared to the N-Frame because of the full-underlug. Reloading wise, they can both handled the heaviest projectiles available (230gr wadcutter), the cylinder length isn’t that big a deal.
Both frame sizes weigh about the same. With the same barrel length, the L-Frame is noticeably nose heavier compared to the N-Frame because of the full-underlug. Reloading wise, they can both handled the heaviest projectiles available (230gr wadcutter), the cylinder length isn’t that big a deal.
That is correct, the L-frame was designed to address the shortcomings of the K-frame when firing a steady diet of magnum loads. Although the grip on the L-frame is the same as that of the K-frame, the cylinder is a little larger in diameter, the top strap is a bit thicker, and the barrel forcing cone is full diameter. That being said, the current production K-frame 357's have a different barrel system and a different lock system for the cylinder. It is a much better design and likely to hold up to a lot of magnum loads.
Tom_R
Member
A 4” L Frame S&W in 357 Magnum is the greatest revolver ever made, when all factors are considered, in my opinion.
The 586 and the 686 should be a cornerstone in any good Gun Collection.
- 586/686
- Colt 1911, preferably customized to your liking
- Glock 19
Those three should be in most collections.
The 586 and the 686 should be a cornerstone in any good Gun Collection.
- 586/686
- Colt 1911, preferably customized to your liking
- Glock 19
Those three should be in most collections.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
Back when the world was more sane, the Model 28 Highway Patrolman was the best full size S&W 357 for the money. It puts a 357 or 38 special round down range as accurate as any 357. The 586/686 are more popular and excellent but a bit pricier. The the 8 round 357's are a lot of fun with 25% more ammo per load. The smaller 357's become more of a matter of individual taste, with small one's like the 340 PD airlite being not much fun to shoot but very easy to carry. Always nice to have multiple ammo choices for your gun. Good luck!
OP
PPS1980
Member
Thanks. I've been reading and watching videos on the Model 19 old version vs. the new version. It seems that they are saying that the new version has beefed up specs and is rated for a steady diet of magnum loads. The 586 4" and the 19 Classic at 4.25" only differ by 4 oz (with the 19 being lighter). So, my question is why do so many people recommend the 586 instead of the 19 Classic?
I would go along with this ^ idea.
Mine is a 60-10. Carries very well and is quite accurate.
As for the recoil of the 357? If you consider buying a J frame that shoots 357, any of the 3” target sighted guns will treat you much nicer than a snub ever dreamed of.
I shoot 158 gr 357 out of mine occasionally and while it is a smidge stiff it ain’t unbearable.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Blued pinned and recessed 4” Model 19.
Since it is perfect it doesn’t need pages of justification.
Since it is perfect it doesn’t need pages of justification.
OP
PPS1980
Member
I think I like the partial underlug of the new 19. Hmmm.....although that 3" carry comp version seems interesting......
The M19 will loosen up after a few thousand full powered .357 loads. Some are loose at 3000 rounds, some at twice that, or a bit more. If you handload, backing the load down a bit will help a lot. The happiest M19 owners shoot a hot .38 +P round in their M19's. Then they will last forever.
Shooting a M586 to death, ammo would cost way more than the gun, and take many years.
OP
PPS1980
Member
The M19 will loosen up after a few thousand full powered .357 loads. Some are loose at 3000 rounds, some at twice that, or a bit more. If you handload, backing the load down a bit will help a lot. The happiest M19 owners shoot a hot .38 +P round in their M19's. Then they will last forever.
Shooting a M586 to death, ammo would cost way more than the gun, and take many years.
Thanks. Revolver novice here, so when you say loose at 3000 rounds what does that mean? Honestly my 442 hasnt been shot that much in all these years. Its carried occasionally and shot infrequently.
Darkenfast
Member
The wear of magnum rounds on K-frames is a "perhaps", "maybe", or "sometimes" phenomenon. It is a real thing, but you can't nail it down because of all the variables involved. You can get multiple different anecdotes just on this forum about people's experience with their K-frames and magnums and they are all telling the truth.
I think this is a fair summation:
Older K-frames sometimes develop a crack in their forcing cones. The culprit appears to be the "flat" on the bottom of the barrel at that point. Note that the flat was made larger during the late 70s' (just in time to make the problem worse). While all magnum ammunition is harder on a gun whose main components were designed over a hundred years ago for the .38 Special, the heavy use of full-power 125 grain bullets, especially with certain powders was the biggest contributor.
Some guns failed quickly.
Some lasted a lot longer. It's a lottery.
L-frames appear to have solved the problems.
The new K-frames (such as the Model 19 Classic), appear to have less of a problem and also seem to be very accurate because of the new barrel. If you want a blued revolver, this might be your best choice (and an excellent all-round gun to have). There's a reason the Combat Magnum was such a hit: you picked one up and held it and said: "Oooh! Just right."
The other issue is Magnums versus Specials in training. The old paradigm was mostly Specials (usually target wadcutters), and a few Magnums. I'll guess that a majority of Model 19/Combat Magnum LEOs carried them with Specials by either choice or department policy. The newer paradigm was all-Magnum for training and qualification, if you were carrying them on duty. This contributed to the K-frame problems. Common courses of fire might include 60 rounds fired each time through. I'll bet many today will take a middle road and mix both. If I was regularly using a revolver, that's what I would do. We also have a much better variety of ammunition to choose from (outside of the current panic!), and there are better not-so-hot loads available.
I think this is a fair summation:
Older K-frames sometimes develop a crack in their forcing cones. The culprit appears to be the "flat" on the bottom of the barrel at that point. Note that the flat was made larger during the late 70s' (just in time to make the problem worse). While all magnum ammunition is harder on a gun whose main components were designed over a hundred years ago for the .38 Special, the heavy use of full-power 125 grain bullets, especially with certain powders was the biggest contributor.
Some guns failed quickly.
Some lasted a lot longer. It's a lottery.
L-frames appear to have solved the problems.
The new K-frames (such as the Model 19 Classic), appear to have less of a problem and also seem to be very accurate because of the new barrel. If you want a blued revolver, this might be your best choice (and an excellent all-round gun to have). There's a reason the Combat Magnum was such a hit: you picked one up and held it and said: "Oooh! Just right."
The other issue is Magnums versus Specials in training. The old paradigm was mostly Specials (usually target wadcutters), and a few Magnums. I'll guess that a majority of Model 19/Combat Magnum LEOs carried them with Specials by either choice or department policy. The newer paradigm was all-Magnum for training and qualification, if you were carrying them on duty. This contributed to the K-frame problems. Common courses of fire might include 60 rounds fired each time through. I'll bet many today will take a middle road and mix both. If I was regularly using a revolver, that's what I would do. We also have a much better variety of ammunition to choose from (outside of the current panic!), and there are better not-so-hot loads available.
Because the 586 still uses the one-piece barrel and older 586's do not have a trigger lock. Some people see a S&W revolver with a trigger lock and recoil in horror and run like they were being chased by a rabid puma. The rest of us do not subscribe to the idea that a trigger lock is the mark of the beast.
The multi-piece barrel system on the new Model 19 often gives superior accuracy due to it being a tensioned barrel, just like the old Dan Wesson revolvers.
The new model 19 also moves the forward cylinder lock from the ejector rod to a lock between the cylinder crane and the revolver's frame. This system harkens back to the days of S&W's early double action, swing out cylinder revolvers known as "triple locks".
If there is a down side to the new Model 19's it is the selection of barrel lengths. Their is no option for a 6 inch barrel. If you want anything longer than 4 1/4 inches with a new S&W 357 Magnum, then you have to buy an L-frame. I guess S&W has decided that the K-frame 357's will be self-defense carry revolvers and 357's for target or hunting will be L-frames. Heck, even the current production Model 27 comes with only one barrel length, 4 inches.
OP
PPS1980
Member
Lots of great informative posts, I'm learning a lot about S&W revolvers, thanks!
I generally buy used weapons, but I think after 40 years of buying them and growing up with 1911s I'm familiar with how to inspect them for flaws/faults. Is there a good tutorial or reference on what to look for and check on used S&W revolvers or should I just start with BNIB?
I generally buy used weapons, but I think after 40 years of buying them and growing up with 1911s I'm familiar with how to inspect them for flaws/faults. Is there a good tutorial or reference on what to look for and check on used S&W revolvers or should I just start with BNIB?
You ask for opinions, so here is mine…
I own all flavors of S&W Revolvers; I love them all. It would be nice if one covered all applications; but there isn’t one. You either want a carry revolver or you want a nice revolver for the range. A 2.5” K-frame (66 or 19) is as big as I would go for a carry revolver. Not exactly a good target or range gun.
A 4” K-Frame or L-frame in my opinion are the King of the home defense revolvers that can also be used as a target/range gun. That’s where I would start for “first” S&W revolver. I mostly carry M&P semi-autos anymore, but a 4” 686 is my headboard gun. I don’t carry it because 13 or 15 rounds of .40S&W vs. 6 rounds of .357Mag is a no brainer.. to me.
The old blue guns are beautiful, but I wouldn’t carry one. You can’t fix a mark or scratch in Blue; you can in stainless. But that’s simply cosmetics and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
J-frames are great carry revolvers. If you want .357Mag: the Model 60 357 would be a good choice in a new gun. Buts it’s a handful and not a range/target gun. They just aren’t fun to shoot a lot; but that’s not their application.
You picked the wrong time to buy. New guns are up about 25% from January… if you can find them. Used gun pricing is just silly right now. Unless you have something you can trade locally.
The “K-frames are weak” controversy is ridiculous. Many of us carried them for years and shot them in competition. Just stick with a 158 grain in the .357’s and you will be fine. But from what you are looking for I doubt you will shoot it enough to matter. Most shooters use 38 SPL at the range as the cost of .357 is too high.
Good luck finding what you want. But keep in mind once you get the revolver bug; one just will not do.
I own all flavors of S&W Revolvers; I love them all. It would be nice if one covered all applications; but there isn’t one. You either want a carry revolver or you want a nice revolver for the range. A 2.5” K-frame (66 or 19) is as big as I would go for a carry revolver. Not exactly a good target or range gun.
A 4” K-Frame or L-frame in my opinion are the King of the home defense revolvers that can also be used as a target/range gun. That’s where I would start for “first” S&W revolver. I mostly carry M&P semi-autos anymore, but a 4” 686 is my headboard gun. I don’t carry it because 13 or 15 rounds of .40S&W vs. 6 rounds of .357Mag is a no brainer.. to me.
The old blue guns are beautiful, but I wouldn’t carry one. You can’t fix a mark or scratch in Blue; you can in stainless. But that’s simply cosmetics and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
J-frames are great carry revolvers. If you want .357Mag: the Model 60 357 would be a good choice in a new gun. Buts it’s a handful and not a range/target gun. They just aren’t fun to shoot a lot; but that’s not their application.
You picked the wrong time to buy. New guns are up about 25% from January… if you can find them. Used gun pricing is just silly right now. Unless you have something you can trade locally.
The “K-frames are weak” controversy is ridiculous. Many of us carried them for years and shot them in competition. Just stick with a 158 grain in the .357’s and you will be fine. But from what you are looking for I doubt you will shoot it enough to matter. Most shooters use 38 SPL at the range as the cost of .357 is too high.
Good luck finding what you want. But keep in mind once you get the revolver bug; one just will not do.
Lots of good advice above..............
IMO and it's only my opinion ..... a 4" 686 is the best .357 utility/general purpose/duty revolver you can own. Durability of the N-frame with the Grip frame and trigger reach of the K-frame.
I currently own 2 1/2,3,4 and 6 inch .357s in J.K.L and N frame sizes in both blue and stainless.
In an urban environment I carry +P.38 125gr hollow point .... out in Penn's woods its a 158gr soft point .357
My advice is get the 4 inch 686 and branch out from there as "needed"
IMO and it's only my opinion ..... a 4" 686 is the best .357 utility/general purpose/duty revolver you can own. Durability of the N-frame with the Grip frame and trigger reach of the K-frame.
I currently own 2 1/2,3,4 and 6 inch .357s in J.K.L and N frame sizes in both blue and stainless.
In an urban environment I carry +P.38 125gr hollow point .... out in Penn's woods its a 158gr soft point .357
My advice is get the 4 inch 686 and branch out from there as "needed"
Last edited:
686-380
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I too prefer simplicity. I own a 686-6 but think the 586 has its own charm.
I prefer new firearms. A few years ago, I read a story by Robert Farago, the creator of The Truth About Guns. He was kvetching about how the "Hilary Hole" had caused his firearm to seize and stated he was going to sell the revolver. I am just the opposite, I won't sell any firearm I know is defective. Buying new, I am pretty confident I'll get a serviceable weapon. I also don't need to worry about any curious tampering with it.
I prefer new firearms. A few years ago, I read a story by Robert Farago, the creator of The Truth About Guns. He was kvetching about how the "Hilary Hole" had caused his firearm to seize and stated he was going to sell the revolver. I am just the opposite, I won't sell any firearm I know is defective. Buying new, I am pretty confident I'll get a serviceable weapon. I also don't need to worry about any curious tampering with it.
OP
PPS1980
Member
Thanks, that's VERY specific, nickel or blue?
Let me see how much I have learned. That's an N-Frame. The -2 is vintage. So, I go an look it up and I get a 1970s vintage S&W model 27-2 357 magnum that were made in both blue and nickel finish with barrels of 3 1/2 ", 4", 6", 6 1/2", and 8 3/8th inch.
And they were built on the N Frame.
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