Marines on Guadalcanal - 1903 Springfields

[AJ]

The ParaMarines had Johnson Rifles.
And the Reising Submachine Gun was standard issue.
The Johnsons apparently functioned well, the Reisings were so disliked that after most of the Guadalcanal fighting they were thrown in a river.
In This Marine Raiders picture, the Raider in front has a Springfield.
The tall guy , left side of first standing row looks like Gordon Warner, who I met in Okinawa.
He may be holding a Reising.
Gordon was a Company Commander.
I hope that's not his entire Company!

I did some research in my own personal library. I have several books on the USMC Equipment and Uniforms. One is called "GRUNT GEAR" by Alec S. Tulkoff. On Page 45 is a copy of that picture. The caption reads "Marine Raiders at Cape Torokina, Bougainville Island in November of 1943. They all wear P1942 camouflage utilities and all but one wear the 1st pattern camouflage helmet cover. Note the array of weapons carried by these Marines. The two in the front carry M1903 rifles and were most likely were the individuals who carried the grenade launchers for the unit. The cardboard tubes on the back of the Marine sitting in front are most likely for rifle grenades. The other Marines carry M1 Garands or carbines."

This book was recommended to me by a Curator that I know at the National Museum of the Marine Corps at Quantico.

 

[bummer]

unfortunately in that picture you see men that have seen too much.

 

[NYlakesider]

In "The Pacific" when the Army arrives, the Marines "appropriate" a number of things from the Army camp. Garands are among the appropriated equipment.

Many years back I read a novel, Battle Cry by Leon Uris. Book was first published in 1953 and it was mentioned quite a few times about equipment forging and some other Marine hi jinks.

My one uncle a Marine combat veteran said,"a lot of truth went into that book"

 

[AJ]

Many years back I read a novel, Battle Cry by Leon Uris. Book was first published in 1953 and it was mentioned quite a few times about equipment forging and some other Marine hi jinks.

My one uncle a Marine combat veteran said,"a lot of truth went into that book"

As you stated "Battle Cry" was written by Leon Uris. Leon Uris had been Marine infantry during WW II, he fought at Guadalcanal and Tarawa. Hence as your Uncle stated "a lot of truth went into that boo". My Step-Father also a combat Marine told me some of the same stories.

 

[Murdock]

My father had a fraternity brother who had been a Marine on Guadalcanal. He told my Dad that not only did they land with 1903s, but also had WWI helmets. His worst memories were of frequent hunger, as heavy Japanese naval action at times inhibited timely resupply.

The word was that if the fraternity had a party (this was late 1940s and these guys were all in college on the GI Bill) and that young man fell asleep, nobody dared to wake him up, as he had a tendency to do so rather explosively.

 

[crazyphil]

My Dad bought a 1903 Springfield in 1955, put it in a Bishop stock, and
gave it to me when I came home from the Air Force in 1956. I took it
deer hunting a few times. Couldn't hit nothing with it. Traded it on a
Model 70 Winchester with a Weaver K4 scope. Couldn't miss anything
with it. I kept the February 1963 edition of American Rifleman because
it has the ad from which Lee Harvey Oswald bought his rifle. At that
late date they still advertised 1903 Springfields for $36.38, Garands for
$89.95 and M1 Carbines for $78.88.

 

[AJ]

My father had a fraternity brother who had been a Marine on Guadalcanal. He told my Dad that not only did they land with 1903s, but also had WWI helmets. His worst memories were of frequent hunger, as heavy Japanese naval action at times inhibited timely resupply.

The word was that if the fraternity had a party (this was late 1940s and these guys were all in college on the GI Bill) and that young man fell asleep, nobody dared to wake him up, as he had a tendency to do so rather explosively.

Have never seen any pictures from Guadalcanal with the M1917 Helmet shown. Not saying that someone did not have one, but the references that I have say "the Marines did not use the M1917 in any offensive combat during the war". I guess Bataan and Wake Island were considered defensive.

Not a good idea to abruptly wake someone who has seen combat. Some tend to wake up swinging.

 

[Trooper224]

My father had a fraternity brother who had been a Marine on Guadalcanal. He told my Dad that not only did they land with 1903s, but also had WWI helmets. His worst memories were of frequent hunger, as heavy Japanese naval action at times inhibited timely resupply.

The word was that if the fraternity had a party (this was late 1940s and these guys were all in college on the GI Bill) and that young man fell asleep, nobody dared to wake him up, as he had a tendency to do so rather explosively.

Guadalcanal is largely remembered as a land campaign. In fact, there were three major surface engagements during the campaign and for every one marine or soldier lost ashore, three sailors were killed at sea.

Just an historical tidbit for interest.

 

[biku324]

There are a LOT of USN names at the American Cemetery in Manila for which there are no gravestones. They were lost at sea.

The names of the dead are engraved on both sides of slab walls, with different ways to determine if bodies were recovered post war.

 

[Oscar Zulu]

I read the book "Battle Cry" as a young man (one of my first "serious' novels). i seem to remember that as the Marine characters were preparing to disembark after their part in the Guadalcanal campaign that none of them checked in any of their issued weapons...which I believe had been Springfields and Reisings. They had all acquired replacement arms that they had felt were more effective. I think I remember that there was some effort to dock pay for "Weapon lost in combat.'

OZ

 

[.357magger]

Guadalcanal is largely remembered as a land campaign. In fact, there were three major surface engagements during the campaign and for every one marine or soldier lost ashore, three sailors were killed at sea.

Just an historical tidbit for interest.

Certainly not to denigrate the naval battles, but I've read differently.

IIRC, total Navy deaths were over 1700 men (including the only battle where we lost 2 Admiral's). I don't recall Navy wounded.

Marine and Army losses were just over 1600 men, 4000 + wounded. Not counting "several thousand " who died during or after the campaign from malaria and other tropical diseases.

I've never read the ratio of 3:1 of Navy vs Land Forces. 3:1 in wounded perhaps?

Thankfully, the Japanese losses were much, much worse.

 

[Tom Kent]

The book, and later movie, Battle Cry, provided motivation for me to join the Marine Corp back in 1964. What was I thinking.

 

[Jessie]

The book, and later movie, Battle Cry, provided motivation for me to join the Marine Corp back in 1964. What was I thinking.

Something like " OooRah!"?
I remember the feeling

 

[Xfuzz]

Some in that group don't look to be 20 years of age....
The Greatest Generation...

 

[N7BLW]

He used a carbine

The book "SHOTS FIRED IN ANGER, A rifleman's-eye view the activities on the Island of Guadalcanal, in the Solomons …" by Lt. Col. John George gives pretty detailed coverage of the small arms used by U.S. and Japanese forces. George was in the Illinois National Guard and had been a competitive rifleman before the war and so he had a soft spot in his heart for the M1903 Springfield. Before shipping out he had been instructed to "Grab a couple of good '03 rifles and hang on to 'em … Find two with star-gauged barrels if possible."

The Marines efforts to latch on to M1s after the Army had come ashore on Guadalcanal is mentioned a couple of times either by 'moonlight requisition' or by trading souvenirs with any supply sergeant with an M1 to spare.

The book is pretty interesting and I believe has been reprinted. It can be found for less than $10 on ebay and secondhand book sellers.

George carried a carbine, mostly. In one episode, two Japanese chased him down a steep hill until he stopped and shot both of them. The best book I've read about the Guadalcanal campaign.

 

[88IROC]

Some in that group don't look to be 20 years of age....
The Greatest Generation...

I had read all of Uris' work when I was younger. He enlisted at 17 after Pearl Harbor.

 

[eclayton]

Guadalcanal was almost 60 years before my time in the Marine Corps, but I have my doubts about the old "midnight requisition" stories. Swiping or trading for an M1 would not offer any promise of access to ammo loaded in M1 clips, and it would cease to be useful in a hurry if all your platoon sergeant brings you is .30 cal on 5-rd Springfield stripper clips.

In any case, it is true that the Marines opted out of the M1 when the Army adopted it, and stuck with the Springfield. They had issues with the reliability or a semiautomatic rifle at the time. They came around in 1941 but could not get enough of them fast enough to gear up large formations for the early campaigns of WWII. I remember somewhere seeing a photograph of Alexander Vandegrift speaking on a field phone on Guadalcanal, leaning on his M1903 Springfield rifle.

 

[AJ]

Guadalcanal was almost 60 years before my time in the Marine Corps, but I have my doubts about the old "midnight requisition" stories. Swiping or trading for an M1 would not offer any promise of access to ammo loaded in M1 clips, and it would cease to be useful in a hurry if all your platoon sergeant brings you is .30 cal on 5-rd Springfield stripper clips.

In any case, it is true that the Marines opted out of the M1 when the Army adopted it, and stuck with the Springfield. They had issues with the reliability or a semiautomatic rifle at the time. They came around in 1941 but could not get enough of them fast enough to gear up large formations for the early campaigns of WWII. I remember somewhere seeing a photograph of Alexander Vandegrift speaking on a field phone on Guadalcanal, leaning on his M1903 Springfield rifle.

Have seen enough references to the "redirecting of supply assets" where M1 Garands are concerned that I believe them. If the whole rifle can be "requisitioned, then obtaining the ammo is nothing to great to accomplish.

 

[biku324]

My late friend Don Jones said the Raiders used whatever weapons they could get their hands on, especially some who were on the 'Long Patrol.'

 

[Gene L]

Forgotten Weapons Ian said the Johnson LMG was the most unpleasant weapon he'd shot, and the Johnson rifle had a lot of recoil. I think the USMC got rid of them as soon as they could.