Another M457 Project (Mk II)

[guzzitaco]

Hi guys,

Sorry to be repetitive, but I'm working on another M457.

Let me explain: When I got the milling machine, I was in the middle of the previous M457 project, so there were some things I couldn't do or didn't dare to do.

Normally, I don't start a thread until a project is finished, but this time I will be updating it as I work. So, please be patient.

I would like to thank BMCM (Bill) for all this help and support during this project. Without his help, this would be almost impossible...

So, I started to experiment with some slide cuts, similar to those made by the Performance Center on the Shorty 45 and other guns:



but I wasn't getting where I wanted...the rear of the cut was rounded, not at an angle. Every time I tried fixing it, I made another mistake. I wasn't getting anywhere...

So, I decided to take a different approach and tried the cuts at an angle.



I always avoided moving the head of the milling machine...but it was the only way to go...


made some tests using hard plastic (cheap and easy to machine)


this is exactly what I wanted to achieve...

So, I was inspired...had another M457 slide laying around...


marked it with a sharpie...


scribed lines for guidance...


off we go...





My milling machine is small and this cut takes a lot of force to complete...so, I quickly realized I had to do shallow pases...2 thousand each pass..20 pases...




completing the cut in the front...


cleaning the marks...


one side ready...

I shouldn't have remove the slide from the vise...reseting everything to cut the other side was a bit of a nightmare...











Side B was looking good...


blasted to see the finish...







more to come...

 

[18DAI]

Magnificent! A work of art you are creating. Thanks for taking us along.

I will be following this thread with interest! Best regards, 18DAI

 

[Heymatt]

Pull up a chair and get some popcorn ��, this looks like it's gonna be a really good one!

 

[dmthomp32]

For someone who has little understanding of machining or milling work, this is an eye opening experience. Thank you for sharing and looking forward to more!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[03Fatboy]

Looks good, I like it! [emoji106]

 

[kobsw]

Awesome!!!

Great workmanship and a very nice presentation to us commoners

Kobsw

 

[quikdraw67]

Wow.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[4T5GUY]

First off I need to apologize to "guzzitaco" for posting a picture, (without his permission,) but you all really need to see this.

I was fortunate enough that he sent me pictures of another project. Actually as was stated and I told him, his art. Pistol art.

I wanted to show the exactness of his skill so I copied one of his pictures and tried to duplicate the view with a PC I have. I'd really like him to do a slide or two of mine. Wouldn't you?

I sure hope he decides to advance his "hobby" professionally.

Do not "like" this post by me. I just wanted share.

Jim

 

[guzzitaco]

First off I need to apologize to "guzzitaco" for posting a picture, (without his permission,) but you all really need to see this.

I was fortunate enough that he sent me pictures of another project. Actually as was stated and I told him, his art. Pistol art.

I wanted to show the exactness of his skill so I copied one of his pictures and tried to duplicate the view with a PC I have. I'd really like him to do a slide or two of mine. Wouldn't you?

I sure hope he decides to advance his "hobby" professionally.

Do not "like" this post by me. I just wanted share.

Jim

Thank you for the kind comments Jim...

I will be posting the 6906 slide learning project later on this week...

 

[GaryS]

I have what may be a dumb question, but that's my specialty.

Does making the slide lighter change anything in terms of how the gun functions? That is, does a change in slide weight effect unlocking of the barrel, ejection and extraction, and loading the next round?

 

[cherrypointmarine]

Luckily I have another 457 along with a 457S . I say this because it looks like I'm going to have to send you another one to do your magic on . I've known many machinists during my career in aviation and aerospace , but never one that could do so much with so little . And to top it off , is completely self taught .

 

[guzzitaco]

I have what may be a dumb question, but that's my specialty.

Does making the slide lighter change anything in terms of how the gun functions? That is, does a change in slide weight effect unlocking of the barrel, ejection and extraction, and loading the next round?

Hi Gary,

yes, it is my understanding that lightening the slide will reduce mass, and increase the cycling velocity of the slide. This could tend to increase accuracy (depending on the pistol) and could have an effect on perceived recoil. Depending of how drastic the reduction of mass is, a different recoil spring might be needed...to ensure the proper cycling, ejection and reliability of the firearm.

This is a very simple and short explanation of a very deep and complex subject.

There are many articles out there that tackle the subject...here is one (NRA website).



Shooting Illustrated | Why Do Handguns Have Lightening Cuts on the Slide?

I would also add that these days many manufacturers like SIG, are offering custom slides with lightening cuts (some of the very dramatic, using the same stock springs)

so, what have I done?

Let's start with what I am trying to achieve: I wanted to re-create the slide cut of the Shorty 45 on a M457 slide. Why? In my mind, the M457 was manufactured trying to reduce cost, so the machining time had to be reduced. The result is a slide that has a "blocky" look, but in essence is very similar to a M4513 (almost the same gun). It will never be a Shorty 45, but it can certainly be improved a bit.

So, lets compare slide weights:


this is an unmolested, factory M457 slide with plastic sights: weight 13.5 Oz


this is a 4013 single stack slide, which is almost identical to a 4513 slide (the base for the Shorty 45) weight is 12.9 Oz.


this is the slide after the cuts, and top serrations (next post). The weight is 12.8 Oz. (Note: I'm using a metal rear sight)

NOTE: I don't have a Shorty 45 slide to compare the weight

The total reduction in weight from the original M457 slide is only 0.7 Oz. which is a 5% reduction.

The total reception of the modified M457 slide vs. a 4013 slide is only 0.1 Oz. which is less than a 1% reduction.

Also, we must remember than the M457, the M4513 and the Shorty 45 use the same recoil spring. Despite the Shorty 45 lightening cuts, S&W decided to use the same recoil springs.

(it is my understanding the other models with slide cuts use the same recoil spring than the "standard model". So the Recon 9 and Shorty 9 use the same recoil spring as a 6906)

The cuts on the Shorty 45 are 45 thousands of an inch deep...the cuts that I made as 40 thousands of an inch deep. These are by no means "dramatic" cuts (no holes anywhere on the slide )

So, based on the above comparisons I would say we are ok.

Nevertheless, once the project is concluded, I intend to test the slide with different loads to ensure reliability.

Hope this helps

 

[GaryS]

That's a well thought out reply, and yes it does help.

As I recall, when BMCM posted his first thread on working on a 457, one of his initial steps was to "melt" the slide of his project gun. I expect you've read that post.

A melt on a 457 slide would be a great way to make it more like a 4513. Do that along with shaving the slide lock and thumb safety and you'd have a great carry gun.

 

[guzzitaco]

After finishing the "PC Cuts" on the slide, I decided to do top serrations.

I haven't learnt a proper way to do them on the milling machine, so I do them using a checkering file, 40 LPI.


The top of the slide is extra wide, so trying to determine proper alignment isn't a fun task...


First lines are always a bit stressful...






I think is working out well...

more to come...

 

[4T5GUY]

I was going to post these weight pictures in "6906 project" post but they belong here.

I only have two kinda alike stainless examples to compare.

I was surprised, (again,) that the 457S wasn't very much heavier than the Shorty 45 MKII.

This isn't a very accurate test but it's still interesting.

Jim

 

[guzzitaco]

I was going to post these weight pictures in "6906 project" post but they belong here.

I only have two kinda alike stainless examples to compare.

I was surprised, (again,) that the 457S wasn't very much heavier than the Shorty 45 MKII.

This isn't a very accurate test but it's still interesting.

Jim

Thanks a lot for this post...really helps a lot

to compare "apples with apples"



As you can see, the modified M457 slide, with all the competent AND steel sights, weights the same as the Shorty 45 one...



more to come...

 

[guzzitaco]

After a rough day at work, got home and decided to do some work on the slide and relax a bit...










need some more work...but this is a good start...

IMHO the rear serrations look great of the M457...

Went out for a walk, when I came back found this...


the day was "fixed"...


more to come...

 

[nocents]

that is a good hat for a guy that likes to fish in Florida