.38 spec 125gr jacketed rnfp load

[len917]

Hi guys
Have been using 158 gr LSWC for years with bullseye powder
and have shooting J 36 3" bbl at 7 & 10 yds with excellent results on the mark. Recently I was not able to buy 158gr so I settled for 125 gr jacketed rnfp and use 3.9 gr bullseye which is load for lead. POI is about 3-4" low from POA.
Should I re-reload the 350pc I have loaded and to what load to regain the the POI.
Thanks
Len

 

[Nevada Ed]

You might try dropping the fps on the 125 copper bullet and the amount
of Bullseye powder, to see if POA improves, or

try a slower powder if you have any, to get that fps down.

PS;
or see a lot more front sight.

 

[len917]

Thanks Ed
I think I'll take apart some of the assembled ones and drop 3.7 gr of B/E and maybe a few at 3.6 gr and see what happens

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can always modify your POA to bring the round to where you want it to impact. That's the only problem with fixed sights.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The Speer load data using Bullseye for a 125gr TMJ (their version of the "jacketed" flat point bullet) and the GDHP both have "DNR" for a Start Charge and shows 4.5gr for 914fps.

Alliant's load data for Bullseye and the 125gr GDHP shows the same MAX of 4.5gr. A 10% reduction is still over 4gr... Don't want to go too low.

What were you loading your 158gr LSWCs with: how much Bullseye?

Cheers!

 

[Scharfschuetzer]

"Should I re-reload the 350pc I have loaded and to what load to regain the the POI."

Nothing unusual in this situation. POI in your revolver is determined by its regulation of the sights and recoil as well as the time the bullet is traveling down the barrel. A lighter bullet has less mass/weight so it will recoil less and thus flip the barrel up against the web of your hand less. Less flip, the lower the point of impact.

I wouldn't bother breaking any of your ammo down. Just hold high enough to center up your group. I don't really think that you are going to find a load with the 125 grain bullet load that will come up the necessary 3-4" at only 30 feet. It's only going to get worse as the range increases, but perhaps you won't need to shoot at longer ranges.

A little trick that I use for long range shooting with my revolvers is to hold the front sight higher in the notch of the rear sight so that the top of the front blade is above the horizontal plane of the sight leaf. With practice you can shoot very uniformly at ranges beyond the common without adjusting the rear sight of adjustable sight revolvers. You might try this technique with your fixed sight revolver and your 125 grain loads.

By the way, S&W 38 Special revolvers are usually regulated for the 158 grain bullet weight and light bullets generally shoot low.

 

[elpac3]

"Should I re-reload the 350pc I have loaded and to what load to regain the the POI."

Nothing unusual in this situation. POI in your revolver is determined by its regulation of the sights and recoil as well as the time the bullet is traveling down the barrel. A lighter bullet has less mass/weight so it will recoil less and thus flip the barrel up against the web of your hand less. Less flip, the lower the point of impact.

I wouldn't bother breaking any of your ammo down. Just hold high enough to center up your group. I don't really think that you are going to find a load with the 125 grain bullet load that will come up the necessary 3-4" at only 30 feet. It's only going to get worse as the range increases, but perhaps you won't need to shoot at longer ranges.

A little trick that I use for long range shooting with my revolvers is to hold the front sight higher in the notch of the rear sight so that the top of the front blade is above the horizontal plane of the sight leaf. With practice you can shoot very uniformly at ranges beyond the common without adjusting the rear sight of adjustable sight revolvers. You might try this technique with your fixed sight revolver and your 125 grain loads.

By the way, S&W 38 Special revolvers are usually regulated for the 158 grain bullet weight and light bullets generally shoot low.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Remember, the standard service load when the model 36 came about was the Remington 158 gr RN and pretty much all the "old" service revolvers of the time were designed around that load. I did some sighting with loads in my model 36 and used yellow paint of the front sight to provide correct elevation. Has worked fine. You may find that shooting at 7-10 yards you are not really sighting the gun but rather pointing the gun - center mass gives you a little wiggle room.

 

[kraynky]

What pistol are you using? Does it not have adjustable sights?

 

[Cdog]

Please understand, no disrespect intended, but shouldn't this issue have been detected before loading 350+ of them?

I'd shoot them as is.

Sample run a few next time.

 

[gwpercle]

Aim 3-4" high ...or ... do you have a bullet puller ?

The only way to get the 125 gr. bullets to strike higher is to sloww them down . Lyman #50 shows a min. charge of 3.2 grs. Bullseye @562 fps.
That's a reduction of 0.7 grains (from your 3.9 gr. load) and might be enough to drop the group ...
Test 5-10 reloads do not load any more until verified .
Shooting jacketed bullets at reduced velocities can get a bullet stuck in the barrel ... make sure every bullet leaves the barrel and be sure no Jacket sticks .
When shooting reduced loads I always use cast lead , coated or even plated to avoid a jacket left lodged in the barrel .

If you go below 3.2 grs. of Bullseye with these jacketed bullets be extremely careful that no jackets are left lodged ... it is a real occurance and does happen .
Gary

 

[Nevada Ed]

You stated a 3" but my minimum load out of my J frame 2" came with
w231 at 830 and Red Dot at 836-840fps, for a standard loading.

My "minimum" load of bullsey had a ES of 68 and was all over the place
for some odd reason with a win & rem SJHP old style design but it did
better at 887fps which was a +P load for the 2".

I do not feel safe shooting a 38 JHP out ogf my 2" that is LESS than 777fps.

Good shooting.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I, too, think the dangers associated with loading a non-lead bullet (plated OR jacketed) @ too low a velocity outweighs the POA/POI concept...

Still waiting to hear what the 125gr bullet actually is and what the 158gr LSWC's Bullseye load was...?

Might just be easier to load some of the 158gr to the POI of the 125gr loads and adjust your POA accordingly?

 

[mikld]

I think I'd just change to a "center hold" rather than a "6:00 hold". I do more "point shooting" with my 2" 38s than "accuracy shooting". A little practice with the 125 gr I can easily adjust POI hold...

 

[len917]

The Speer load data using Bullseye for a 125gr TMJ (their version of the "jacketed" flat point bullet) and the GDHP both have "DNR" for a Start Charge and shows 4.5gr for 914fps.

Alliant's load data for Bullseye and the 125gr GDHP shows the same MAX of 4.5gr. A 10% reduction is still over 4gr... Don't want to go too low.

What were you loading your 158gr LSWCs with: how much Bullseye?

Cheers!

3.3 gr bullseye/158 gr bullet for jacketed

 

[len917]

What pistol are you using? Does it not have adjustable sights?

J frame model 36-1 3" bbl

 

[len917]

Please understand, no disrespect intended, but shouldn't this issue have been detected before loading 350+ of them?

I'd shoot them as is.

Sample run a few next time.

you are right. I should have made a small amount and went from there

 

[geekeye]

just be glad you asked this question here, instead of on another forum full of glock shooting millennials, who'd be falling over themselves to explain that POI shift with different bullet weights doesn't exist, that recoil doesn't happen until after the bullet leaves the muzzle, or that lighter bullets hit higher, not lower, because bullet drop (even at extremely close range).


i have the same problem as you. for now i'm just aiming high, but as soon as i get through this batch of 125 grainers i'm switching back to 158s.

 

[len917]

AMEN !!!
THANKS ALL

 

[scooter123]

I would advise that you not waste your time with breaking down those assembled rounds, you'll likely have to produce a squib load to get the POI's between the two bullets weights to match. Until you can find some heavier bullets what you will need to do is change your sight picture to compensate.

I carry a Ruger LC9S Pro and this pistol has the sights regulated for 147 grain ammunition, so like your model 36 there is a large shift in the POI when shooting 115 grain ammunition. What I do is lift the front sight above the rear sight so that the 3 white dots form a pyramid shape. I also have a model 36 that gets taken out of the safe on occasion and use the same sight picture to get hits on center.

PS: my 38 special practice loads have always been 125 grain loads because they are less expensive than than 158 grain bullets. As a result the rear sight on my 2 1/2 inch 19-3 is cranked about as high as possible. Good news is that I can hit a 12 inch target at 50 yards with ease with it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...........

My J frame snub nose does not do well with the 110 & 125 gr JHP at low fps for target work.
However I did get a 125 Lead trung and RN design to work out with several powders.......
if you might want to try them for a slow target load, if available.

The old lead 148 and 158 are my go to light load bullets for low recoil target use and plinking......
plus lots of data out there, for you.

Good luck.