FLASHLIGHTS MOUNTED ON SD GUNS - GOOD OR DANGEROUS?

[chief38]

I have always been someone who is an independent thinker and rarely went with an item or concept just because it was a trend of the masses. The discussion here is weather or not it is prudent to mound a Flashlight on a SD/HD firearm.

I get why you want to illuminate an object prior to aiming a loaded firearm at it. I get why you want to make damned sure what you are pulling the trigger on. Not saying one should not use a light of some sort but I for one suggest that mounting a Flashlight onto a firearm may not be a good idea!

First off let me bring up the meat of my argument. My belief is that if someone breaks into your home at night they are not familiar with the layout, furniture, items around the home, etc. but you are. If someone who enters your home illegally is armed and scared, what do you think their reaction might be when someone (you) unexpectedly points a bright light in their face will do? It is quite possible that if their intent is to shoot you they will instinctively shoot at the light source since they will probably be partially blinded. If your firearm is pointed at them (being aimed) that would most likely place your firearm right between your eyes! By mounting a Flashlight onto a firearm it can ONLY illuminate something in the same exact direction your gun is pointed at - suppose you want to shine it on something like a family member to see if they are OK. Do you want to point a loaded gun at them? I'd think not!

Maybe I am just a stubborn Old Fart But I much prefer to have a Flashlight in my weak hand and held far away from my face and body - like they trained the Police to do many years ago. There are other advantages of having a Flashlight NOT attached to your firearm as well. It makes your gun lighter. If somehow your gun is compromised or dropped, you still retain a flashlight that can be used as a weapon for a last resort defense. If you want to navigate through your home without being detected, you can leave it turned on in a separate place possibly attracting the intruder to the wrong location. If you manage to loose your firearm and are able to exit the house - you will still be able to illuminate your way through the darkness. I can go on and on with other reasons not to have your Flashlight attached to your SD gun but I think I have made my point.

I'd bet that there will be some who will counter every point I have made and I am certainly not telling others what to do - I am simply posting what makes perfectly good sense to me.

In my home, I keep a 4 watt night light turned on every night and on every level of my home. 4 watts isn't much to an intruder but more than enough for someone who knows the layout. It is more than enough to be able to defend yourself, especially if you are upstairs, hidden, or in a location they are not aware of. Flashlights are GREAT - but seem to me they should be separated from a loaded gun.

So I throw this out their as "food for thought". I'm interested in hearing if I am the only one who feels this way or others might agree.

 

[blues7]

I'll keep my reply concise.

I do not mount a light on my carry firearm.

I do have a light mounted to my firearm dedicated to nightstand duty.

There is enough spill from the light to be able to bounce it off floors or walls for illumination without direct aiming...but I do keep a handheld light alongside the nightstand gun for situations not requiring an immediate response.

YMMV. I do not profess to say that my way is the only way, it is simply the methodology I have chosen for myself based upon my experience.

 

[Breakaway500]

I have no flashlights mounted on any firearm and prefer the "weak hand" hold for all the same reasons you stated.

 

[Doc1500]

I personally would love to know what the seasoned Leo's have to say.
They are the ones that do this all the time.

 

[NYlakesider]

Well we have had bad luck with battery stuff attached to a gun. It is always dead when you need it.

No thanks, this opinionated old curmudgeon believes in the KISS principal.

 

[Steve912]

By mounting a Flashlight onto a firearm it can ONLY illuminate something in the same exact direction your gun is pointed at

No, like blues7 said--you get plenty of reflected light/side beam
illumination from a weapon mounted light. It doesn't have to
be pointed directly at something, to provide plenty of
illumination.

 

[CB3]

As a civilian, I see no need. I am not going to be clearing rooms and purposefully going into harm’s way in the dark. A separate flashlight will do, but even then, the better plan is just to turn on all the lights from your bedroom and activate the siren that should have gone off when your alarm was tripped. That much notice that cops are on their way should be enough to force a quick exit.

Of course, circumstances differ, and you may feel you need a light. Knowing how and when to use it (some real trading from professionals) will illuminate your mind, and you, as a civilian, will find it is expensive, cumbersome, changes the handling of your gun substantially, and probably never will be used.

Darkness can be your friend and a distinct advantage, and very few places are ever totally dark. Better to learn to use it than a 1000+ lumen tacticool rail mounted grip switch activated (dead battery) pistol light. Nothing says “shoot me” like a shining light used improperly.

So, as so often stated, it depends. Are you trained? Do you have real equipment where the juice is worth the squeeze? Have you properly evaluated your risks? A full size gun?

I have a Surefire with a grip switch for my house M&P full size, but it is rarely mounted. I would never carry it holstered out of the house.

 

[chief38]

No, like blues7 said--you get plenty of reflected light/side beam
illumination from a weapon mounted light. It doesn't have to
be pointed directly at something, to provide plenty of
illumination.

Are you saying you would feel comfortable and willing pointing a loaded gun even in the "general direction" of a family member (possibly with the safety off) ?

 

[Rodan]

A weapon mounted light is just a tool. It is appropriate for some circumstances, not for others. We train that it is mandatory to have a separate light available. A couple of specific points:

As noted above, a good light on the weapon will have enough spill light when at the low ready to illuminate most residential rooms to the point where you can see and identify a person.

The 'FBI' method of holding the light away from your body has some applictions... the question is: how often do you actually practice this? Can you actually hit a moving target shooting one handed, while simultaneously controlling a light held away from your body? You have to train every technique to the point where you can make the shots.

Light itself is a 'weapon'. Yes, they can shoot at the light, but they are at a significant disadvantage doing so. Here's an interesting excercise that we've tried on the range. Secure a cheap, but bright flashlight to a target frame at night, so it's pointing directly at the shooter and try to hit it. I've never actually had anyone be able to hit the flashlight. It's an eye opener... pun intended.

It's all just tools in a toolbox, but there's a reason most cops these days have a weapon mounted light. But you have to know what your tools can do, and train appropriately.

 

[rockquarry]

I think a gun-mounted flashlight is a poor idea. Keep things simple. Use a flashlight, ambient light, lamp switch, or wall-mounted light switch if necessary. This is not something to spend more than a few seconds thinking about.

 

[mikerjf]

Having a gun-mounted light and a handheld means you have a backup and can use either according to the circumstances.

I recall walking down a dark trail one night in scary woods, and I was able to flash light two directions at once. You may not do this much of course!

 

[gwpercle]

If I were a Bad Guy , robbing a house ... I would shoot at the Light !
It's just human nature ... makes a good target to boot ...
Gary

 

[lkabug]

On duty and off I never had a light mounted on any gun.
On duty I always carried a handheld light . Night and day.

 

[crazyphil]

A long time ago, when I got my Glock Model 22 .40 caliber, I thought the
light would be a good idea. But, after thinking it through, I took the light
off. My thought process was just about identical to what the Chief said.
Can't argue with any of his points.

 

[Old_Cop]

At the end of my career as chief I finely gave in to weapon mounted lights, making sure that the policy was understood. The department bought and issued the lights the union paid for the holsters. Police officers want whatever someone else has, weapon lights or HUMVEES. Just human nature I guess.

I own a few, but they are not mounted on my bedside companion.

 

[BourbonCowboy]

I keep a rail-mounted light on my Taurus Judge - which I keep on my nightstand. I want to know what I'm about to shoot in the darkness when my finger is on the trigger.

On my HK VP9 and VP9SK, I keep a laser/light combo. They offer three settings: laser, light, and laser & light. Depending on when I'm using it, I will adjust the settings accordingly. For instance, the VP9SK is my carry gun, and if I'm going out at night, I will switch to laser & light. For daytime carry, it's laser only. I try to train with at least one of these monthly, but the ammo shortage has reduced my time to every other month and sometimes every third month.

The laser/lights add some weight, but it's not significant.

 

[Rammer Jammer]

HD gun has a light

Carry guns don't because I don't need extra gear on top of what I'm already carrying.

 

[Rastoff]

It is quite possible that if their intent is to shoot you they will instinctively shoot at the light source...

As a gun enthusiast I'm sure you've been to the range plenty. Think about those other people you've seen there and what their targets look like at the range....where it's comfortable and safe. Then think about what you just said. Do you honestly think that a bad guy, who likely never practices, is going to hit the light, or anywhere close, if he shoots at it?

Honestly, for most of the people I see at the range, the safest place it right in front of them.

...suppose you want to shine it on something like a family member to see if they are OK.

Are you saying you would feel comfortable and willing pointing a loaded gun even in the "general direction" of a family member (possibly with the safety off) ?

Please describe to me the situation where you would need to point your light at a family member, or in their general direction, and the one on your gun is the only light available? I can't think of one.


I have a light mounted on my defensive rifle. The likelihood of ever needed it is so small that it's almost ridiculous that I have it there.

I don't have a light mounted on any handgun. The main reason is different than what anyone here has said so far; method of operation. Most weapon mounted lights (WML) require the trigger finger to operate them. When it comes to guns, I only want my trigger finger to do one thing, operate the trigger.

 

[Doug M.]

If one goes to places where hardcore folks who FIGHT as cops, military and others who regularly go in harm's way hang out, you will find that most advocate for lights and red dot sights. This is done with certain caveats.
1) You get what you pay for. Invest in quality.
2) You have to train.
3) You have to train.
4) You have to train.
5) In the case of a light, you also need a hand held so that you are not using the firearm as a light source just because you can, as that is poor muzzle discipline.

I'll admit, I do not have a pistol mounted light, for several reasons. The first is that I am no longer in LE. I am a day shift office nerd. I have to go to bed early and get up early. I am rarely in public in hours of darkness, and then, it is generally only to walk the dog(s). I honestly cannot think of a time in last 15+ years I have not had a Surefire flashlight on my person, starting before the 500 lumen versions (of which my wife and I have 10 or so, and which is my default). On a rifle, 1000 lumens - I trained with and saw demos by Pat Rogers. The improvement in vision with the 1000 lumen over 500 on a patrol rifle is not an option. My Mossberg 590 also has a Surefire fore end - 600 lumens.

The more important reason is that I have not trained with a pistol mounted light. It is not something one just does on a whim. Certain pistols have long histories of not working with the lights; I recall a discussion on the old 10-8 forums in 2007 about the agency liability for the very well known problems with the Glock 22/23 with mounted lights.

Home defense: The main thing you have to do is make your home as unappealing as possible to intruders as possible. By doing so, you also reduce the risk of mistaken ID or entry cases (shooting some dumb drunk teen, for example). I have a 6' padlocked fence. My property is posted. Get to the fence, one has committed a crime. Go over the fence? Another. My doors and downstairs windows are closed and locked. Try to enter? Another crime.

I have two medium sized dogs (rott and rott X). If one tried to enter and that does not discourage them, I KNOW FOR SURE that they are a bad actor. I have taken all reasonable steps to avoid being victimized and to avoid using force, so I can be confident that at this point that I am legally and morally justified in using deadly force.

Red dot sights:Not an option on a serious long gun. I have Aimpoints (of course) on my ARs and shotgun. I have trained with them. With my bad but correctable vision, and then aging eyes - not an option. Period. Full stop. If your eyes are good enough to do without, have at it.

I have two pistols with RDS. The transition was/is not trivial. The S&W Shield worked better for me after I had set up my customized G17. I had awful time transitioning with the Glock. As I learned more, I saw that one of the problems was that the RDS that was so good on the long guns was a fail on the pistol - too high, in short. Actually a tiny difference, but it made a huge difference in performance. I eventually switched to an Aimpoint Acro, which has worked a LOT better.

I have a .22 revolver and a K38 for plinking. They are fun. I can still fight with them if I have to - mindset matters. I do not waste time or money on counterproductive junk like movies, a boat or golf. My fitness activities are not what they were, but I try to keep up - they are a major reason why my kidney transplant screening is going well. If you don't have as much ammo as you want, but own golf clubs, a boat, or other stuff, watch Full Metal Jacket on repeat until you internalize Hartman's exhortation to Pvt. Joker. FWIW, some idiot has that as a tat, in military block, on his triceps (one word each). Why is he an idiot? Because he had no clue how many nerves are in that area and would be really angry for the roughly 4 hours it took.

Our world is changing. We have a lot of folks who are more worried abut the well-being of criminals than of decent people. In fact, they hate us, and lie to support their agenda. American cops kill about 5% of the people they could (and by necessary implication should) every year - but to hear the apologists for the criminal feral, you would think the cops are bloodthirsty goons. Where I live, new statutes have been passed to almost completely make the police useless. If you are not prepared to take care of your own needs, you are wrong.

 

[chief38]

FROM RASTOFF:
Please describe to me the situation where you would need to point your light at a family member, or in their general direction, and the one on your gun is the only light available? I can't think of one.


Answer:

If there is someone shooting up the stairs and you want to make sure your family members are safe. You might need a light to see that. You might have to illuminate a situation that is close to a family member and pointing a loaded gun is not a good idea.

Much better to use an unmounted flashlight! Also, you might want to give the flashlight to another member of the family who is behind cover to illuminate an area for you to see but you may not want the light on you because you are in the open and don't want to be a target.