FLASHLIGHTS MOUNTED ON SD GUNS - GOOD OR DANGEROUS?

I'll keep my reply concise.

I do not mount a light on my carry firearm.

I do have a light mounted to my firearm dedicated to nightstand duty.

There is enough spill from the light to be able to bounce it off floors or walls for illumination without direct aiming...but I do keep a handheld light alongside the nightstand gun for situations not requiring an immediate response.

YMMV. I do not profess to say that my way is the only way, it is simply the methodology I have chosen for myself based upon my experience.

Same. Carry gun only gets pulled when I'm threatened. The need to identify the threat is far less, the time I'll have to turn on the light is probably nil, and the risk of making myself an easier target is high.

Nightstand gun definitely has a light. I need to 100% ID the target. Bad Guy is probably not there looking for a gunfight, so risk back to me is lower. I better have more time or else I'm already shooting and the light is more or less dead weight.
 
FROM RASTOFF:
Please describe to me the situation where you would need to point your light at a family member, or in their general direction, and the one on your gun is the only light available? I can't think of one.


Answer:

If there is someone shooting up the stairs and you want to make sure your family members are safe. You might need a light to see that. You might have to illuminate a situation that is close to a family member and pointing a loaded gun is not a good idea.

Much better to use an unmounted flashlight! Also, you might want to give the flashlight to another member of the family who is behind cover to illuminate an area for you to see but you may not want the light on you because you are in the open and don't want to be a target.

Sounds like the other family member holding the light would then become the target.
 
Options. I have a light mounted on my nightstand gun. I also have a handheld next to it and another at the front door.

In addition I have a light mounted on my 12ga. Kinda hard to use a hand held light with a long gun.

I also have a motion activated light in the living room. One cannot avoid activating this light. Including myself.

These options go along with a home defense plan in which I can use either light while maintaining cover. A person must go through the living room and down the hallway to access the bedrooms. At the opposite end of the hallway is a rock fireplace so my rounds won’t exit the home.

A fatal funnel with cover and lots of firepower along with a nasty demeanor give me the advantage.
 
Are you saying you would feel comfortable and willing pointing a loaded gun even in the "general direction" of a family member (possibly with the safety off) ?

No, I'm saying that your specific statement
"By mounting a Flashlight onto a firearm it can ONLY illuminate something in the same exact direction your gun is pointed at"
is absurd and untrue. It's a flashlight, not a "laser"
laser-dr-evil-1.gif
 
[/AUOTE] I don't have a light mounted on any handgun. The main reason is different than what anyone here has said so far; method of operation. Most weapon mounted lights (WML) require the trigger finger to operate them. When it comes to guns, I only want my trigger finger to do one thing, operate the trigger.[/QUOTE]

I agree. IMO, the only safe, fast, effective and efficient way to control a pistol WML is with a dedicated grip switch, like the Surefire system. And it still takes a lot of training.
 

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In recent years the LE uniform duty handgun has gone to nearly universally to sporting a light. The TLR series is the most common and many LE holsters accommodate them. The smart LE will tote more than 1 white light source. Only a few civilians carry their handgun with light attached. Virtually all civilian handgun carriers, the smart ones anyway, tote at least one white light source.

IMO any white light that would be put into use on/with a firearm by either needs momentary and well as constant "on" capability for tactical reasons. This applies to a home defense hand or long gun.

Even in a known environment, there is the essential need to have sufficient light to identify a potential target as friend or foe. One cannot automatically assume a potential target in that known environment, such as a home, to be a foe. That's where the momentary switch on the white light comes into play. ID, then move if one wishes.
 
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Somehow my last post on this subject was deleted and to be blunt I'm getting tired of repeating myself so I hope the moderators will let this one stay.

To directly address the OP, you're presenting an extremely limited situation, strict home defense. You listed some advantages of being in a static, know defensive position and under those extremely limited parameters you would be at LESS of a disadvantage compared to someone with a weapon mounted light, WML.

So in other words when it comes to time shoot, and lets face it the entire dance, meaning all of the strategies and tactics are useless unless the person performing them can not get rounds on target, then there is NO FASTER AND MORE ACCURATE WAY TO ACHIEVE HITS IN LOW LIGHT SITUATIONS THEN A WML.

This is not opinion, this is fact. Any shooting at night/under limited lighting is faster and more accurate with a WML. Be it handgun, shotgun or rifle, and I've shot all three under low light/no light situations, any other technique is a compromise at best.

For the sake of this post lets just stick to handguns. The biggest misperception when discussing WML on the handgun is most people frame the debate at EITHER WML or hand held light. The correct response is BOTH. Some situations will require just a light and some situations will require a light and gun. Having both tools available will hopefully prevent the misuse of either.

Using a handheld light is tricky and learning to do it right is time consuming. In my time, 10 years with the Marines and 27 years in LE, 20 of those as a firearms and tactics instructor, I've been exposed to most of the common gun/light techniques. Namely:

FBI technique. Sometimes jokingly called the Statue of Liberty technique. Basically gun is held in one hand the light is held in the other, as high and far away from the body as possible. The thought being the bad guys will shoot back at the light.

Modified FBI technique, sometimes called he turret. As bigger and heavy lights became the norm for LE and security the FBI technique was modified. The gun is still held one handed but the light is rested on the support side shoulder. The shooter moves their entire body, like a tank's turret, to face the threat.

Please note the FBI and modified FBI both are really the ONLY techniques where the gun is held solely in one hand. Both can be used with lights using side switches, such as Mag Lights, and end switches, such as Surefires.

Harries Technique. Taught by many LE agencies. An adaptation of the Weaver technique. Instead of front/back isometric tension you have side to side tension. The gun is thrust forward and the light is brought UNDER the gun so the two hands are back to back. Can be used with all types of lights.

Chapman technique. The support hand forms the "OK" sign. The light is held between the thumb, which controls the switch, and the first finger. The other three are used to grip the handgun. Limited to those lights using a side switch.

Ayoob technique, developed and taught by Massad Ayoob. Light is FIRM held in support hand with all fingers on light and thumb controlling switch. Base of both thumbs are firmly pressed together as light and gun, as one unit, are thrust forward. Again limited to lights using a side switch.

Wilson/Surefire technique. The light is held "cigar" style is the support hand, with a large "O" ring attached to the middle and outside the fingers. The support hand assists the primary and in controlling the weapon. Tightening one's grip presses the rear switch inward controlling the light. Limited to Smaller lights with rear switches and middle rings. For some time the FBI issued Surefire Z2 lights to its agents just for this technique.

ALL of these techniques to some degree or another limited how much the support hand can assist in controlling the weapon. Using a WML completely eliminates that limit. Well thought out lights allow a completely normal two handed grip on the weapon.
 
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IMHO, lights on guns are fine for LEOs but not for civilians.

Civilians are unlikely to receive training in low light or any training in operating a gun mounted light. Most folks barely have the skill to safety shoot their guns in the absence of the adrenaline rush they would confront in a defense situation.

Aside from cyber ninja fantasies, I’m unaware of a civilian successfully using a weapon mounted light in a self defense situation.

For civilians, a weapon mounted light is a gizmo (gun folks love gizmos) that solves a nonexistent problem badly.
 
CONTINUED

So I've covered some of the technical aspect of light and gun technique, now to address some of the perceived negatives of the WML.

1. It will give bad guys a point to shot back. If you'll notice the original FBI technique was the ONLY one to try to address this point. All other techniques focus on making the gun and light work better as a combination. In other words it's more important to get hits then to avoid getting hit.

2. You have to point the light at everything. As someone else pointed out modern weapon lights are more then capable to fully illuminating the average house room without directly pointing at a specific object in the room. Pointing the light at an upward angle, pistol high ready, will allow the light to flood most rooms.

3. Weight and bulk. The newest Streamlight TLR-7 single cell units are much smaller then older versions. They put out 550 lumens, more then enough for defensive use.

4. They might not work when needed. Again this goes back to BOTH instead of either. Having more then one light if possible is really the answer. The SEALS are well know for their saying, "one is none and two is one" Meaning critical equipment always seems to fail at just the wrong time and the smart and prepared person has some sort of backup.

Anyway feel free to agee, disagree, use my name in vain or whatever. This is a free forum and the only thing this post has cost me is 30 minutes of my life.
 
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CONTINUED

So I've covered some of the technical aspect of light and gun technique, now to address some of the perceived negatives of the WML.

1. It will give bad guys a point to shot back. If you'll notice the original FBI technique was the ONLY one to try to address this point. All other techniques focus on making the gun and light work better as a combination. In other words it's more important to get hits then to avoid getting hit.

2. You have to point the light at everything. As someone else pointed out modern weapon lights are more then capable to fully illuminating the average house room without directly pointing at a specific object in the room. Pointing the light at an upward angle, pistol high ready, will allow the light to flood most rooms.

3. Weight and bulk. The newest Streamlight TLR-7 single cell units are much smaller then older versions. They put out 550 lumens, more then enough for defensive use.

4. They might not work when needed. Again this goes back to BOTH instead of either. Having more then one light if possible is really the answer. The SEALS are well know for their saying, "one is none and two is one" Meaning critical equipment always seems to fail at just the wrong time and the smart and prepared person has some sort of backup.

Anyway feel free to agee, disagree, use my name in vain or whatever. This is a free forum and the only thing this post has cost me is 30 minutes of my life.

Wish I could give you more than one like.
CRUACHAN !!! From a fellow Campbell Clan member
 
A weapons mounted light is for identifying a threat. When training security teams I ALWAYS insisted on them carrying a separate flashlight. As an LEO who also worked night shift I had some for of light mounted on my sidearm, and long guns. In the private sector I carried over the same practices.

I see a lot of really aged training and urban myths about giving up your location, etc. and truth is… if you are not training to immediately identify a threat and engage then your light will make you a target. If you are training to draw, present, identify, action… then your light is an asset, not a liability. Purely my .02¢, but if you aren’t training leave the light off and consider getting to as many quality classes and training you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I got to do a simmunitions thing in low/no light some years ago and it was, if you'll pardon the pun, illuminating. The separate handgun/light combo was always way slower and clumsier than a WML, and it was possible to illuminate rooms without pointing the weapon directly where you wanted to see, but it was still a concern. That said, we also got to notice in the videos we saw of the event that pretty much everyone trying the separate flashlight/handgun combo was pointing their handgun with the light at about the same spot while scanning, since, yaknow, they're looking for something they think they're going to have to shoot. We also found that in the timeframe the engagements took the light was more of a detriment to an opposing shooter than a great target. Remember, you're talking about a stupid bright light most often at room distances. If you're outdoors, that may change.

I know a lot of people here dislike any firearms tech that wasn't featured on Adam-12, but an aversion to lights is pretty out there. You're not using it to search for the remote under the couch cushions, its there to find and more importantly, properly identify a threat. If I'm in a situation where I may have to use a gun, I damn sure want to be sure of my target and what's beyond it. You add a tiny bit of bulk but for a gun you're not concealing, but beyond that there is no downside. If you are concealing, I get the argument against it, and I don't have a light on my CCW, but that tech is rapidly catching up and I'd expect we're going to have great concealable lights before too long.
 
I did not use a dedicated WML on or off duty for my sidearm. I did have a surefire forearm light on my patrol shotgun (where it remains in retirement in my safe, ready if needed).
 
First off, a WML is a supplement to not a replacement for a handheld light. I have WML's on both my on duty and off duty handguns. When off duty I always carry a handheld light on my person. When on duty during daylight hours I always carry two handheld lights on my person. When working after dark I always carry three handheld lights on my person. I have made my decisions based on almost 40 years of working and training in low light. Bottom line is train with your equipment, make your decisions on what works for you and then feel warm and fuzzy about your decisions.
 
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FROM RASTOFF:
Please describe to me the situation where you would need to point your light at a family member, or in their general direction, and the one on your gun is the only light available? I can't think of one.


Answer:

If there is someone shooting up the stairs and you want to make sure your family members are safe.
This is a pretty specific situation. It's very unlikely, but I see why you might think this way.

Even so...
You might need a light to see that. You might have to illuminate a situation that is close to a family member and pointing a loaded gun is not a good idea.

Much better to use an unmounted flashlight! Also, you might want to give the flashlight to another member of the family who is behind cover to illuminate an area for you to see but you may not want the light on you because you are in the open and don't want to be a target.
This presents many questions. Why aren't you behind cover? But more importantly, why is the light on your gun the ONLY light available? I mean, maybe I'm weird, but I have flashlights all over the house. I usually have one in my pocket, but they're also throughout the house. I have one on either side of the bed, on the kitchen counter, on the credenza, etc. In my house you're probably not further than arms reach from a flash light no matter where you are.

Yes, I agree that pointing a gun at a loved one is a bad idea. However, the solution is so simple I'm surprised I have to say it, dude, get another flash light. They're cheap, less than $5 and in almost every store you go to.
 
ok let's try to be rational here...


if the argument against weapon mounted lights is that you don't want to accidentally point the weapon at a friendly when identifying them, there are two rebuttals, one is that a bright weapon light will light up the entire room, even when pointed at the floor or ceiling, so you don't need to point it at the person, and the other is that nothing about having a weapon light precludes you from also having a hand held light.


if the argument is that weapon lights need batteries, and batteries are unreliable, the rebuttals are that they are equally unreliable in handhelds (in truth probably more unreliable in handhelds that use C or AA or AAA batteries compared to a weapon light that uses a much more expensive and capable battery), that it doesn't take much discipline to routinely test your light and swap out the battery as needed, that even in the worst case scenario, having some % chance of the battery being dead when you need it is still infinitely better than the 100% chance of having no light at all if you have no light at all, and finally (again), nothing precludes you from having a handheld as a backup.


and finally, if the argument is that somebody trying to shoot you will instinctively point towards your light, the fact is that assassination attempts on civilians are incredibly rare compared to robberies, and most robbers will turn tail and run as soon as they see a light turn on in the house, but if you do have reason to believe the intruder is there to kill you and not simply rob you, and you wish to use the element of surprise against them, guess what? you have the option of not turning your light on! furthermore, a good weapon light with a momentary switch can nearly blind the intruder in an instant and be off again before they can react, and all the while you can keep both hands on your gun and not be forced to take a one handed shot in a highly stressful situation where your fine motor skills may not be at their sharpest.


in short, a weapon light gives you options but doesn't lock you into a course of action, and i can't understand why you wouldn't want to give yourself every advantage possible.
 
I like having lights on my HD weapons. I don't have to point the gun at anyone to identify them. I also like having a hand free to open doors, pick up my kids, grab my dog etc.

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