What Full Sized Revolver Was Most Carried “In the Old West”

[hkcavalier]

I'm no Old West historian, but I believe a full-sized handgun was a low priority for most folks back then. The comment about the 'Bulldog' type revolver seems to add up to the anecdotal evidence.

It was important for those that figured they'd get into gunfights e.g. lawmen, cowboys (fight off rustlers and what not), and of course the criminals themselves. But if you were a farmer, laborer, or tradesman back then, they weren't very useful. A rifle or shotgun much more so.

The 'western' movie genre and what actually took place 99.9% of the time back then have nothing to do with one another. We have more gun battles every weekend in our big cities than took place over several years time over the entire Old West.

 

[walnutred]

You would also need to take cartridge revolvers sold under military contract out of your production figures. It's my understanding that civilian versions of the Colt and S&W would have been fairly scarce for most of the 1870s.

 

[Iggy]

Dang few cowboys carried a sidearm during their daily chores.
A gun rig bouncing around on your waist while horseback is disconcerting and can be dangerous if you get it hung up while roping critters.
Same thing on the ground. It's more often in the way while wrestling calves and other functions.
If a cowhand could afford a gun, it more than likely stayed in his bedroll the in the chuck wagon or bunkhouse until he got all gussied up to go to town.

 

[murphydog]

It's an interesting question but I suspect there is/will be no precise way to answer it.

Aside from written accounts such as news stories and books (and perhaps a rare photograph) there is no way to easily determine what types of guns were carried at the time. And these reports would be biased toward those who would have been professional writers or reporters, and limited in scope.

In the time frame mentioned, percussion revolvers would still have been very common and even dominant among full size handguns. They were plentiful from war surplus, easy to feed and (most of all) relatively inexpensive. So my vote would be a Colt 1851 or 1860 or a similar copy.

Cartridge conversions would have been a distant second and I suspect few who had the money to afford a new SAA or model 3 would have been carrying one on the frontier, Teddy Roosevelt being an exception. For those in need of a gun, I would guess rifle or shotgun first by a long shot (pun intended ).

 

[StrawHat]

Cost is a major factor to be considered. Why spend hard to come by cash money on a new revolver when the cap and ball revolver dad had in the war is still usable? Or can be converted to handle cartridge for a fraction of a new one?

The same with long guns, few carried Winchesters, Remingtons or Sharps. Most carried some form of muzzleloader, again probably from the War or handed down.

Kevin

 

[btvarner]

I appreciate all the viewpoints. That is what I was looking for. By-the-way, if you study the numbers I gave (Substituting the correction for S&W figures), you will see that I did take-a-way for most of the things discussed here.

The reason I used 1890 is simple. I could find exact manufacturing numbers up to that year, & that was the year of a census. I used only Colt SSA as a catch all (I know SSA is really only the Calvary model). I used only the Model 3 (& all its variants), because these are the 2 make/models handguns seem most often in any movie or TV show.

I wanted to have what I hoped was an accurate year to guns available ratio. As I said earlier, the exact numbers are not as important as the percentages.

Military guns: I did remove them from the final numbers
Population: Figured ONLY population west of the Mississippi & then only took 5% of that figure. On top of that I divided that %5 in half for only men. So, my figures for around 1890 are very small (2 1/2%) of total population........

I did not forget about cap & ball, just do not know how to accurately add such handguns in?

Ultimately I am just wishing I could obtain something that looks like accuracy in the old west for sidearms.......

My actual ulterior motive for this particular exercise is to obtain a better picture of what handguns everyone who had a higher likelihood to get into a gunfight used. If you were to wake up right now & it was 1870-1880-1890, & you find yourself in a small western town walking down the street. Or, out in the countryside and rode long enough to come across several sets of riders, what percentage of those who had a higher likelihood to get into a gunfight would be carrying a handgun, & of what type brand.

I know none of this is possible. But I also feel the stories & beliefs we are given are way off base..............

 

[IrishFritz]

It may be useful to remember that Bill Hickok carried a pair of Colt 1851 Navy revolvers when he died. It is also true that the military carried C&B 1860 Armies until the late 1870's- well after the Trapdoor Springfield was in service. I agree with the idea that good quality C&B revolvers would not have been quickly discarded when cartridge revolvers became available. Old photography may be a potential indication of the gun ownership of the day. There was not a lot of wealth in the early post civil war years on the frontier and as there were thousands of surplus handguns left over after the Civil War and they were relatively inexpensive in comparison to new Colts and S&W's so the probability is quite strong that C&B revolvers way outnumbered cartridge revolvers in the 1870's and early 1880's. My feeling is that cartridge revolvers may not have become commonplace until the late 1880's and 1890's as the West became more settled and there was more discretionary income available. How long did the C&B era last? I knew a fella who still carried a pair of Colt 3rd model Dragoons back in the 1960's and he
didn't feel particularly underguned.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes,Hollyweird has given us a rather warped view of what the Old West looked like. In the final battle scene from "They Died With Their Boots On" Custer (Erroll Flynn) is shooting what look like Remington M1875s.
A lot of the Old West was farm country, hence rifles and shotguns were a lot more prevalent-more practical.

 

[glenwolde]

Have you tried an economic approach to the estimation? Prices for revolvers from the time should be available. Look at an old Sears Catalog.

If you can find income data you could project who could afford what at the time were expensive weapons.

A tour of a catalog is likely to give you an idea of what was available. I never bought into the idea that a lot of people carried handguns. Most were pretty poor and worried about eating. A rifle or shotgun had far more versatility for hunting and defense than any handgun.

Do you have data on foreign export sales? How many went to institutions like prisons?

There's an awful lot of variables and little data.

 

[teletech]

So in 2121 somebody will be here asking how many people carried autopistols (and which ones) way back in 1990 and people will be fussing about how despite being obsolete, lots of people might still be using serviceable old wheelguns.

 

[Rubone]

I think your population numbers are not quite correct. The male to female ratio in the west, especially in more remote areas like mining towns, etc, would have been far greater than 1/2 the population. That also removes the very young and the older/infirm. The west was a young mans domain.

 

[glowe]

. . . *S&W Model 3* (American, Russian, Schofield, New)
162,865 – Manufactured (ca. 1873-1898)
19,232 – US & Foreign Military Usage
143,663 – Total Smith & Wesson Model 3 Manufactured for Civilian Market . . .

I believe there were over 130,000 exported S&W Model 3s and not 19,232.

3,000 M3R 1st went to Russia
3,000 M3R 1st RF exported
70,000 M3R 2nd to Russia
3,000 M3R 2nd to Turkey
5,000 M3R 2nd to Japan
40,000 M3R 3rd to Russia
5,000 M3R to Turkey
1,000 M3R to Japan

 

[reccpd101]

Teletech:

In the hands of a well trained shooter, no good revolver is ever obsolete. Surprizingly, most police officers are not gun people. In my career, i found that the officer carrying a well cared for but well used revolver was the one I wanted as my wingman rather than the younger one with a new auto, especially if the revolver was one of two, primary and BUG. S&W, Colt, & Ruger revolvers are truly at least 5 or more for sure. The shortest eyewitness statement I ever took in a homicide involved 2 hispanic drug dealers. One was equipped with a 9x18 Mak, the other with a Model 10 .38. Per the eyewitness: "Him gun jam, other didn't."

 

[jeffrefrig]

I would think most people would have more long guns over handguns to feed themselves or whatever; either shotgun or rifle. At least those outside of town. But, this is a different subject to the OP.

 

[glowe]

I would think most people would have more long guns over handguns to feed themselves or whatever . . .

It has often been stated that the gun that won the west was likely the double-barrel shotgun, but not as glamorous at six-shooters at the movies.

 

[Model19man]

I don't think factory ammunition sales would reflect anything about the question being asked. Lyman casting tools, lead shot, bulk black powder and primers would have been used by anyone who did a lot of shooting, or who just had more time than money. Which was a lot of folks back then.

 

[walnutred]

It has often been stated that the gun that won the west was likely the double-barrel shotgun, but not as glamorous at six-shooters at the movies.

I suspect the "gun that won the west" was a sporterized Springfield, or other CW rifle.

 

[BC38]

Your guess at 514,854 males west of the Mississippi is understandable, but it's the wrong number if you're estimating the gun carrying population: it's a huge over estimate.

Your estimate includes male infants and children and elderly males, none of which are part of the gun carrying population.

I suspect that the gun carrying population was less than half the number you've used.

I think your population numbers are not quite correct. The male to female ratio in the west, especially in more remote areas like mining towns, etc, would have been far greater than 1/2 the population. That also removes the very young and the older/infirm. The west was a young mans domain.

That was my first thought too. The fact that only half of the people in the old west were even males. Everything I've read/heard/seen indicates that men outnumbered women by a pretty healthy margin in the wild wild west.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have pictures of old cowboys , ranch hands going back to the late 1890's etc . They were carrying a side arm . They weren't gunslingers , they carried for personal protection and protection of the cow herds from coyotes , wolves etc . My wifes ancestors homesteadded the valley in 1879 and the Apache threat was real . I carried a sidearm when ranching in Az and NM for a very good reason . A hundred yrs later I had to learn that " The wild west is not dead " . Regards Paul

 

[teletech]

Teletech:

In the hands of a well trained shooter, no good revolver is ever obsolete. Surprizingly, most police officers are not gun people. In my career, i found that the officer carrying a well cared for but well used revolver was the one I wanted as my wingman rather than the younger one with a new auto, especially if the revolver was one of two, primary and BUG. S&W, Colt, & Ruger revolvers are truly at least 5 or more for sure. The shortest eyewitness statement I ever took in a homicide involved 2 hispanic drug dealers. One was equipped with a 9x18 Mak, the other with a Model 10 .38. Per the eyewitness: "Him gun jam, other didn't."

Sorry, didn't mean to rattle your cage there. I own and shoot almost exclusively revolvers and appreciate them greatly. My point is that it mostly is and will be the popular conception moving forward in the same way we look back at the cap&ball crowd now. You can still get really terminal lead poisoning from a Colt SAA after all.