I'd be willing to bet that shotgun shells were were right up there numbers wise.
I've read that there were more of them than handguns.
What Full Sized Revolver Was Most Carried “In the Old West”
- Thread starter btvarner
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I'd be willing to bet that shotgun shells were were right up there numbers wise.
I've read that there were more of them than handguns.
crstrode
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Make it from whole cloth - just like the rest of your data.
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i get all i need from bonanza and hoss
Colt made over 250,000 of their 1851 Navy cap & ball revolvers, plus another
40,000 made in England. They made over 200,000 of their 1860 Army
cap & ball revolvers. The 1851 model was .36 caliber and the 1860 .44 caliber.
Those two Colt models were used extensively in the Civil War. But there
were thousands more "knock offs" made for both sides of the Civil War.
After the Civil War, I suspect that many veterans took their cap & ball
revolver along with them. Many of those veterans went west, so there
would have been many of the Colts and knock-offs, plus all the other
domestic and foreign guns.
Colt's Single Action Army arrived in 1873. It was the 7.5" model. The
Army ordered the first batch for the cavalry, so it took on the name of
Cavalry model. Many of them were cut down to 5.5", so in 1875 Colts
started making the 5.5" model also. Then in 1879 they started making
the 4.75" model.
Most of the so-called "conversions" were made at Colt's plant with a huge
stockpile of parts they had left from making the 1851 & 1860 models.
I believe Richards and Mason were engineers working for Colt at the time.
They made over 9,000 of the so-called conversions, but ran out of barrels,
so they started making barrels and made over 2,000 more. The 1851
Navy models were converted to accept the 38 caliber cartridge.
I have read that someone who owned an 1851 or 1860 could take or
send it to Colt and have it converted for $5. But after the Civil War,
$5 was a lot of money. When the Single Action Army Colt came out
in 1873 they sold for $16.
Colts made from 1873 to 1941 are called first generation, and numbered
about 350,000. 1956 to 1974 was the 2nd generation, with about 74,000
produced. They started a new series of serial numbers starting with SA001.
3rd generation started at serial number 80,000SA and production
brought the serial numbers up to 99,999 by 1994.
Colt kinda went to sleep at the switch after WWII. But in 1956 Ruger came
out with the Blackhawk and was eating Colt's lunch. So Colt woke up and
went back into production.
40,000 made in England. They made over 200,000 of their 1860 Army
cap & ball revolvers. The 1851 model was .36 caliber and the 1860 .44 caliber.
Those two Colt models were used extensively in the Civil War. But there
were thousands more "knock offs" made for both sides of the Civil War.
After the Civil War, I suspect that many veterans took their cap & ball
revolver along with them. Many of those veterans went west, so there
would have been many of the Colts and knock-offs, plus all the other
domestic and foreign guns.
Colt's Single Action Army arrived in 1873. It was the 7.5" model. The
Army ordered the first batch for the cavalry, so it took on the name of
Cavalry model. Many of them were cut down to 5.5", so in 1875 Colts
started making the 5.5" model also. Then in 1879 they started making
the 4.75" model.
Most of the so-called "conversions" were made at Colt's plant with a huge
stockpile of parts they had left from making the 1851 & 1860 models.
I believe Richards and Mason were engineers working for Colt at the time.
They made over 9,000 of the so-called conversions, but ran out of barrels,
so they started making barrels and made over 2,000 more. The 1851
Navy models were converted to accept the 38 caliber cartridge.
I have read that someone who owned an 1851 or 1860 could take or
send it to Colt and have it converted for $5. But after the Civil War,
$5 was a lot of money. When the Single Action Army Colt came out
in 1873 they sold for $16.
Colts made from 1873 to 1941 are called first generation, and numbered
about 350,000. 1956 to 1974 was the 2nd generation, with about 74,000
produced. They started a new series of serial numbers starting with SA001.
3rd generation started at serial number 80,000SA and production
brought the serial numbers up to 99,999 by 1994.
Colt kinda went to sleep at the switch after WWII. But in 1956 Ruger came
out with the Blackhawk and was eating Colt's lunch. So Colt woke up and
went back into production.
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Critch
Member
Many years ago I saw an interview of Larry McMurtry and Louie L'Amour..they talked about the real Old West....some towns and locales were very dangerous for years, but places like Denver, Cheyenne, Omaha and Wichita were actually pretty peaceful. They talked about the cowboys...most of them didn't have guns they just carried all the time, unless they were worried about rustlers or Indians. They also mentioned that the notion of a bunch of cowpokes shooting up a town was silly, those settlers had fought the elements, Comanches, and the Civil War, they weren't scared of a bunch of cowboys. The Northfield Raid by the James Gang is a good point.
Guns were common however, but not often worn on the outside, they were under a coat or a dress. New York City had a far higher homicide rate in the late 19th century than any town in the West, with the possible exception of Deadwood and Tombstone, for short times.
Long guns were far more common and useful. The double shotgun was a fearsome weapon in it's day. The Old West really only lasted from roughly 1865 to 1880,,,Denver got it's first electric lights in 1881 and it's first telephone in 1879.
Guns were common however, but not often worn on the outside, they were under a coat or a dress. New York City had a far higher homicide rate in the late 19th century than any town in the West, with the possible exception of Deadwood and Tombstone, for short times.
Long guns were far more common and useful. The double shotgun was a fearsome weapon in it's day. The Old West really only lasted from roughly 1865 to 1880,,,Denver got it's first electric lights in 1881 and it's first telephone in 1879.
There are many ways to look at "The Gun that Won the West" but I think that the 1860 Henry and the 1866 Winchester deserve the title jointly.
No doubt there were many handguns of all types in the "Old West. A fun way to think of it is to watch Tuco build a gun in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". Mixed and matched until he has one that he likes. There were many full sized revolvers available.
tuco builds a gun - Bing video
(c) YouTube
No doubt there were many handguns of all types in the "Old West. A fun way to think of it is to watch Tuco build a gun in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". Mixed and matched until he has one that he likes. There were many full sized revolvers available.
tuco builds a gun - Bing video
(c) YouTube
Ranger514
Member
In addition to what cowboy4ever said, take a look at the cowboy art work of Charles Russell, who lived in that era. Most of his illustrations of cowboys in action show them with holstered handguns. Charlie was noted for his attention to detail and authenticity, having lived the life.
lawandorder
Member
On January 2 1935 Independence County, Arkansas Chief Deputy Sheriff W.E. Wheeler was shot and killed as he attempted to arrest a subject.
The murder weapon was a Colt 1851 Navy model.
The suspect was captured after a short manhunt. He was tried, convicted and executed by the Electric Chair on February 23 1935.
Count the days from the crime until the execution of the sentence.
In today's criminal justice system ,from sentencing to execution in a capital case takes about 30 to 35 years.
The murder weapon was a Colt 1851 Navy model.
The suspect was captured after a short manhunt. He was tried, convicted and executed by the Electric Chair on February 23 1935.
Count the days from the crime until the execution of the sentence.
In today's criminal justice system ,from sentencing to execution in a capital case takes about 30 to 35 years.
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Rifles!!! Rifles won the west, Winchester 66s, 73s, and others, such as Henrys, obviously, before Winchester changed the name.
I spent the summer reading several well researched books on the cattle towns of the old west. It seems a large number of cowboys went to town well armed. Contemporary accounts and published laws of the times seem to confirm this.
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Very late to the scene, but it's been interesting reading. A couple of points no one else has mentioned. I should mention that as a youngin' I got a tattered copy of W. F. Cody's autobiography (most probably ghost written) which included biographies of his contemporaries. Ruined western movies for me for decades*.
About the alleged death tolls in various towns back then. While they certainly weren't as violent as we imagine, the count well might not have included racial minorities.
Ol Elmer wrote frequently of carrying guns in his chaps pockets. I'd never realized chaps had pockets, but apparently some did. This might make carry somewhat less inconvenient for a working ranch hand.
I'm not sure what the source was without digging through tons of paper, but when I was researching firearm access & homicide back deep in the last century, I ran across a statement that until 1982, the shotgun was the most frequently owned firearm. That make sense, especially if you include front loaders.
The points about disposable income matter. FWIW, back in about 1926 my father got a well paying job-for the time and his age (16) in Pittsburgh. It paid $18.50 a week. I don't think anyone was throwing C&B revolvers away in a rush to buy those new fangled cartridge guns.
*Also presented a motive for the Hickhock/Tutt shooting I've never seen anywhere else. Wild Bill doesn't come off as a saint. Remember Cody & Hickhock were best buds.
About the alleged death tolls in various towns back then. While they certainly weren't as violent as we imagine, the count well might not have included racial minorities.
Ol Elmer wrote frequently of carrying guns in his chaps pockets. I'd never realized chaps had pockets, but apparently some did. This might make carry somewhat less inconvenient for a working ranch hand.
I'm not sure what the source was without digging through tons of paper, but when I was researching firearm access & homicide back deep in the last century, I ran across a statement that until 1982, the shotgun was the most frequently owned firearm. That make sense, especially if you include front loaders.
The points about disposable income matter. FWIW, back in about 1926 my father got a well paying job-for the time and his age (16) in Pittsburgh. It paid $18.50 a week. I don't think anyone was throwing C&B revolvers away in a rush to buy those new fangled cartridge guns.
*Also presented a motive for the Hickhock/Tutt shooting I've never seen anywhere else. Wild Bill doesn't come off as a saint. Remember Cody & Hickhock were best buds.
junglefighter
US Veteran
Terrific read! I read all the posts and have learned alot and the opinions and facts are great. Please keep this going as this is very interesting.
I was born in TX and spent about half my youth there and in AZ on the border. I had a personal acquaintance with some older ranchers/cowboys when I was a teen ager. That would have been in the 60's. All of those old timers were born before 1900. I had some long conversations with them about what it was like living in the SW when they were young. None of them ever owned a revolver of any kind. They said they had no use for them. Instead they owned rifles. Lots of Winchester lever rifles. One old timer who was a neighbor had about 4 Winchester rifles that were chambered for black powder cartridges like 38-40 and 44-40.
I was pretty disappointed that none of them had ever owned a revolver. My impression, after reading every True West magazine I could find, was that a person needed a revolver to stay alive in the old west. They all laughed and said it was pure fiction.
I lived about 40 miles from Tombstone and about 20 miles from Bisbee AZ which was a notorious old west mining town in 1880. The shootouts were highly publicized but the average farmer/rancher/cowpoke didn't own a revolver. This was more or less validated by the old timers I knew as a kid.
I have no idea which revolvers were the most popular but if I were buying one in 1880 I would have purchased a #3. Easier to reload.
Edit. My dad owned a model 95 Winchester SRC and a model 97 Winchester shotgun. That's all he had and all he used in the 50's. I still have his shotgun and it looks like it has a million miles on it. His rifle was stolen sometime in the 70's. I shot my first deer with that rifle around 1965. My dad was born in 1920 in TX and never owned a revolver, but my grandmother carried one in her purse. She showed it to me when I was about seven.
Hard times in TX during the 20's and 30's. Old habits die hard.
I was pretty disappointed that none of them had ever owned a revolver. My impression, after reading every True West magazine I could find, was that a person needed a revolver to stay alive in the old west. They all laughed and said it was pure fiction.
I lived about 40 miles from Tombstone and about 20 miles from Bisbee AZ which was a notorious old west mining town in 1880. The shootouts were highly publicized but the average farmer/rancher/cowpoke didn't own a revolver. This was more or less validated by the old timers I knew as a kid.
I have no idea which revolvers were the most popular but if I were buying one in 1880 I would have purchased a #3. Easier to reload.
Edit. My dad owned a model 95 Winchester SRC and a model 97 Winchester shotgun. That's all he had and all he used in the 50's. I still have his shotgun and it looks like it has a million miles on it. His rifle was stolen sometime in the 70's. I shot my first deer with that rifle around 1965. My dad was born in 1920 in TX and never owned a revolver, but my grandmother carried one in her purse. She showed it to me when I was about seven.
Hard times in TX during the 20's and 30's. Old habits die hard.
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.357magger
Member
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Single barrel or double barrel shotguns were THE guns that certainly tamed the West. They truly were ubiquitous and could be found pretty much in every residence, business, and/or wagon.
The Sharp's rifle won the west. Buffalo hunters wiped out the large herds that ultimately forced the Indians to accept reservation life. Food was the ultimate weapon that brought "peace" to the Ol' West.
And there you have it. Concealed carry in the old west. Totally illegal in some burgs but tolerated if you you don't advertise.
The first revolver I owned was a surplus WW2 Webley I purchased by mail order around 1965. Much better quality than the present S&W revolvers built after 1980.
Maybe has something to do with their current prices.
I came to the conclusion that you don't see too many cap and ball revolvers in the movies because watching the cowboys reload would be boring as heck.
UncleEd
Member
Worked with a fella who had
roots in Wyoming. He said his
grand pappy had a Remington
cap and ball revolver and never
saw a need to buy a cartridge handgun.
roots in Wyoming. He said his
grand pappy had a Remington
cap and ball revolver and never
saw a need to buy a cartridge handgun.
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